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Originally Posted by MSY-MSP
Bart,
Just a question or 4 for you, and a story for the rest of us here. Yesterday going through security at ORD, which generally is a bastion of some sanity, not total sanity, but some. Approached the checkpoint and was informed that I had to remove my shoes. Fine I was running a little late and had just found out my UA flight was cancelled, so a rebook was in order. Anyway, I removed my shoes and prepared to put on a set of plastic baggies much like what you store vegatbles in. The screener then informed me that all footwear must be removed. This included socks. When I asked him why his response is that we are looking for more than metal, and that the socks must come off. I informed him that I would not remove my socks as I was worried about the cleaniness of the floor. Of course he used the would you like to fly today line. I said I would take the secondary then. To which he responded that was not an option. Further, He physically blocked the WTMD until I had removed my socks. This was also going on at the two other WTMD at the checkpoint. I eventually was "forced" to remove my socks as there was no option to go back as my bags had already cleared through the machine. The supervisor when called over backed up the screener, saying that the screener can require that all footwear come off and that socks constitute footwear. He gave me a complaint form which I filled out and then watched him dump it in a trashcan away from the checkpoint. Now for the questions. Can a screener actually require that you remove your socks? Do they actually constitute footwear? Can a screener refuse to allow you to pass if you agree to the secondary? And finally, could I have walked away from the checkpoint at that time? (i.e. What happens if your bags have cleared, but you haven't/cannot clear the WTMD because of a screener) We can't require you to take off anything - you can leave your boots and winter parka on when you come through, you'll simple receive additional screening. |
I'm not stepping in anything because I don't take my shoes off at the airport.
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Originally Posted by n5667
That is quite bizarre - We can't require the removal of shoes let alone socks. You should certainly have asked to talk with a manager.
We can't require you to take off anything - you can leave your boots and winter parka on when you come through, you'll simple receive additional screening. |
Originally Posted by MSY-MSP
Thanks for the comments. I did ask for a supervisor and all he did was back-up the screener. So who further up the TSA chain could I go at the checkpoint. I could have gone to a LEO, but past experiences at ORD have indicated they aren't going to back me up on this one.
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Originally Posted by MSY-MSP
... Anyway, I removed my shoes and prepared to put on a set of plastic baggies much like what you store vegatbles in. The screener then informed me that all footwear must be removed. This included socks. When I asked him why his response is that we are looking for more than metal, and that the socks must come off. I informed him that I would not remove my socks as I was worried about the cleaniness of the floor. Of course he used the would you like to fly today line. I said I would take the secondary then. To which he responded that was not an option. Further, He physically blocked the WTMD until I had removed my socks. This was also going on at the two other WTMD at the checkpoint. I eventually was "forced" to remove my socks as there was no option to go back as my bags had already cleared through the machine. The supervisor when called over backed up the screener, saying that the screener can require that all footwear come off and that socks constitute footwear. He gave me a complaint form which I filled out and then watched him dump it in a trashcan away from the checkpoint.
Now for the questions. Can a screener actually require that you remove your socks? Do they actually constitute footwear? Can a screener refuse to allow you to pass if you agree to the secondary? And finally, could I have walked away from the checkpoint at that time? (i.e. What happens if your bags have cleared, but you haven't/cannot clear the WTMD because of a screener) It just gets more and more bizarre. I can't believe that you and apparently others actually gave into these little creeps. If they'd told you to your pants off or your would not fly, would you have done so? |
Originally Posted by red456
It just gets more and more bizarre. I can't believe that you and apparently others actually gave into these little creeps. If they'd told you to your pants off or your would not fly, would you have done so?
I am not normally one who gives into them. In fact, I tend to be a little more assertive with them. However, in this case I was in a between a serious rock and a hard place. The screener was blocking the WTMD, and my bags were already on the other side. My choices, as far as I could tell were. 1) Comply, 2) Leave my bags on the other side and try to walk away just wearing my socks. (I took my shoes off, because these actually do set off the WTMD) 3) get very beligerant and force my way through the WTMD. In the end I really had no choice to comply, because my bags were already through the X-ray and waiting for me, and that the supervisor was backing him up. I was very close to telling the screener to go ________ himself, but i thought better of that one. |
Originally Posted by ralfp
If that's not being forced to remove one's shoes, what is (besides the actual phyical act of someone grabbing them and pulling them off you against your will)?
:confused: This is like saying that nobody forces me to obey the law; I just get fined or sent to jail if I disobey the law. If your shoes do not alarm but meet the screening criteria, an ETD sampling is all that's required. Otherwise, if they do alarm, regardless of whether or not they meet the screening criteria, the screener needs to resolve it. How is it that you disagree? |
Originally Posted by daw617
Oh, you're supposed to be given just the shoe swab, not the full secondary treatment -- but as we know, all too TSA officers love to make up all sorts of nonsense rules on the spot and abuse their authority, so there is no guarantee that TSA officers will actually handle things the way they are supposed to. There are plenty of TSA folks out there who seem to enjoy giving retaliatory secondaries for all sorts of reasons, including to people like you who decline to take their shoes off. That said, my experience has been that usually the TSA has given me just the swab, not the full secondary.
I don't dispute your assertion that some screeners think they are wise when they screen beyond what's required. The way I see it, if there's an unpleasant passenger giving me a hard time, then I want to get that person out of there as quickly as possible. The last thing I want to do is delay that person unnecessarily and run the risk of having to screen that person again when he's in a much worse mood than before. |
Originally Posted by MSY-MSP
Bart,
Just a question or 4 for you, and a story for the rest of us here. Yesterday going through security at ORD, which generally is a bastion of some sanity, not total sanity, but some. Approached the checkpoint and was informed that I had to remove my shoes. Fine I was running a little late and had just found out my UA flight was cancelled, so a rebook was in order. Anyway, I removed my shoes and prepared to put on a set of plastic baggies much like what you store vegatbles in. The screener then informed me that all footwear must be removed. This included socks. When I asked him why his response is that we are looking for more than metal, and that the socks must come off. I informed him that I would not remove my socks as I was worried about the cleaniness of the floor. Of course he used the would you like to fly today line. I said I would take the secondary then. To which he responded that was not an option. Further, He physically blocked the WTMD until I had removed my socks. This was also going on at the two other WTMD at the checkpoint. I eventually was "forced" to remove my socks as there was no option to go back as my bags had already cleared through the machine. The supervisor when called over backed up the screener, saying that the screener can require that all footwear come off and that socks constitute footwear. He gave me a complaint form which I filled out and then watched him dump it in a trashcan away from the checkpoint. Now for the questions. Can a screener actually require that you remove your socks? Do they actually constitute footwear? Can a screener refuse to allow you to pass if you agree to the secondary? And finally, could I have walked away from the checkpoint at that time? (i.e. What happens if your bags have cleared, but you haven't/cannot clear the WTMD because of a screener) Please file a complaint with your airline, especially the part about them dumping your complaint form in the trashcan. Forget the FSD, use the airline station manager as your advocate. To put it succinctly, this sort of stupidity by the screener and supervisor pisses me the hell off. To answer your questions: no. Screener cannot require you to remove your socks. Screener cannot refuse you secondary screening if you request it in lieu of removing your footwear. Socks are not footwear that would meet any TSA screening criteria. The individuals you encountered are horribly incompetent. However, once you've either passed through the WTMD or submitted your property for x-ray examination, you've initiated the screening process and cannot turn around and leave the checkpoint. You can enter the checkpoint at this point and refuse further screening; however, this is not the same as walking away from the checkpoint. For you and others: if you encounter such a close-minded supervisor, then ask for the airline ground security coordinator. The GSC is the liaison between the airline and the TSA, and the GSC is usually an airline supervisor who is keen on customer satisfaction. |
I guess I was wrong in worrying about what is on the bottom of those bins where I put my notebook computer and sweater. I was always grossed out by the thought of the shoes that have been put in the bins and what they've stepped in/on before they were put there. I never thought about the bugs on the conveyor belt.
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Originally Posted by Bart
Too bad you see it that way. I don't think it's unreasonable to cooperate with security screening up to a point. If your shoes alarm the hand wand metal detector, the screener needs to resolve that alarm by having the shoes x-rayed. If you think that's unreasonable, then I don't see how you could possibly expect to be allowed past the checkpoint when the screener was unable to clear you properly.
If your shoes do not alarm but meet the screening criteria, an ETD sampling is all that's required. Otherwise, if they do alarm, regardless of whether or not they meet the screening criteria, the screener needs to resolve it. How is it that you disagree? I do think that it is wrong to be forced to walk across the floor without shoes but it's fine if the person being screened is allowed to remain seated during the entire shoe removal, ETD screening, shoe X-ray, etc. process. |
"The other organism I saw was Neisseria. It is of the species and genus that can lead to gonorrhea," Lee said.
LOL. But but but seriously honey, I wasn't cheating on you. I got gonorrhea from the floor of a TSA check point. Hahaha. :D |
Originally Posted by MSY-MSP
Bart,
Just a question or 4 for you, and a story for the rest of us here. Yesterday going through security at ORD, which generally is a bastion of some sanity, not total sanity, but some. Approached the checkpoint and was informed that I had to remove my shoes. Fine I was running a little late and had just found out my UA flight was cancelled, so a rebook was in order. Anyway, I removed my shoes and prepared to put on a set of plastic baggies much like what you store vegatbles in. The screener then informed me that all footwear must be removed. This included socks. When I asked him why his response is that we are looking for more than metal, and that the socks must come off. I informed him that I would not remove my socks as I was worried about the cleaniness of the floor. Of course he used the would you like to fly today line. I said I would take the secondary then. To which he responded that was not an option. Further, He physically blocked the WTMD until I had removed my socks. This was also going on at the two other WTMD at the checkpoint. I eventually was "forced" to remove my socks as there was no option to go back as my bags had already cleared through the machine. The supervisor when called over backed up the screener, saying that the screener can require that all footwear come off and that socks constitute footwear. He gave me a complaint form which I filled out and then watched him dump it in a trashcan away from the checkpoint. Now for the questions. Can a screener actually require that you remove your socks? Do they actually constitute footwear? Can a screener refuse to allow you to pass if you agree to the secondary? And finally, could I have walked away from the checkpoint at that time? (i.e. What happens if your bags have cleared, but you haven't/cannot clear the WTMD because of a screener) |
Originally Posted by Bart
The individuals you encountered are horribly incompetent.
Didn't we discuss the "Tyranny of the Clerks" a while back ? These individuals should be fired on the spot (which of course can't be done). Me, I would have made a hell of a "scene" and damn the consequences; but I appreciate not everybody has the time or inclination to do the same. But it's the only way to put a stop to these aberrations IMO; faith in the complaint process is just that - faith. PS I did check the date - it's not April 1st. |
Originally Posted by txrus
I probably don't want to know what he was doing to women wearing skirts & pantyhose, then, right??
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