Problems getting a manual search @ LAS
 

So I'm in line to leave LAS for EWR. When I get to the x-ray machine, I point to a cardboard box and say "I'd like this to be searched by hand, I do not want it to go through the x-ray machine".

I repeat myself 2 or 3 times for the person who wrangles at the x-ray machine. I add that they are video tapes and I don't want to chance it.

So he calls over a supervisor. Supervisor tells me the x-ray machine is safe for video tape. I say I don't want to take the chance. Supervisor repeats that the x-ray machine is safe, and I repeat that I don't want to take the chance.

Supervisor takes me through security to his boss, who I play the same game with - I want a hand search, he tells me the x-ray is safe. Finally, he gets on the phone with somebody, and that person tells him (as far as I can tell), "Do the damn hand search, moron".

So he then does the hand search - opens the box, swabs each tape and does the explosives test. I go on my merry way.

Is there a reason the TSA is making this so difficult? All the speed bumps seem to do is make their lives more difficult and delay me even further.

I believe your post provides the answer to your question:

A couple of possibilities:

1) They were preparing you for the lunacy that is EWR.
2) They weren't able to retaliate to you with a secondary, so they were lost.

I kind of got a chuckle reading of the experience, especially after reading the TSAer comments here about shoe folks hold things up.

I hear you! I've had trouble getting the TSA to hand inspect my rolls of camera film, even though the TSA website admits the x-ray machines are not good for film. I keep my film (removed from the plastic containers) in two clear plastic baggies - one for exposed film, one for unexposed. The last time I went through ATL, you'd have thought I was asking the agent to hand inspect baggies of fecal material rather than obvious rolls of film. A supervisor had to come over, open the baggies and inspect the film rolls himself, with this followed by a thorough search of my carryon camera bag. Sheesh. Looks like I'm going to have to make the transition to all digital afterall.

Comrade Daschle says
 

"You don't professionalize until you federalize." :rolleyes:

Videotapes HAVE to be xrayed. Period. The supervisor was an idiot for not consulting the SOP and whoever told him to do a hand check is the moron for also not knowing the SOP.

Oh, stop it, already! Isn't a hand search, with swabbing for explosives, even better than x-raying? What's your problem? :rolleyes:

Bruce

Not my problem. I didn't write the SOP. ::shrug::

So someone at the TSA didn't follow SOP. Like that never happens.

The only difference is that this came out in the passenger's favor, and likely damaged the ego of some TSA staff. That seems to be the 'outrage' here.

God forbid the travelers become accustomed to exceptions in their favor and common sense... :rolleyes:

Prove it.

Hey, you asked why and I gave the answer. If you don't believe me then that's your hangup, not mine.

That's the problem. So many TSA screeners in so many airports around the country are willing to lie about what's required by the policy (e.g. "all shoes must come off or you don't fly today") that it's hard to believe a screener when he/she may actually be backed by the policy.

I've been on this forum for a while now and I have never lied; I have no reason to lie. My goal here is to learn from you guys, not to clarify policy. However, I did respond - truthfully - to a question asked here.

I'm not calling you a liar; in fact, I believe you about existence of the videotape x-ray rule.

What I'm saying is that people question and disbelieve TSA screeners when the meet them at the checkpoints because so many of the screeners lie about policy. Unfortunately, the management of the TSA is not concerned with their own credibility or the credibility of their employees. If they cared, they wouldn't allow screeners to shout "all shoes must come off (or you don't fly today)" at so many airports.

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But why would anyone with a working brain object to an even better screening method? This is a little like my situation with pat-downs. I have offered many times to go into a private room and strip naked rather than have some stranger touch me. They can x-ray all of my clothes if they like. I wouldn't object.

The TSA always gets all huffy and acts like that would be some sort of grave security threat. But obviously it's even better than a pat-down. So why object? It's just a power-play, nothing more.

Bruce

As oppposed to your "offer?" Not buying it.

I really have no idea what point you are trying to make.

Bruce

Just one question: why would a terrorist EVER ask for a hand check of video tapes?

If they had a bomb, it would surely be found. That's just saying "please catch me sir." People know how much tapes should weigh. If it were packed with explosives, it'd be noticeable. Tapes even have windows so you can see the tape inside anyway.

If they were intent on blowing up the checkpoint, they wouldn't ask for a hand check. They'd just do it.

It might be the SOP, but I think it's a bad call.

I think he was trying to hurt your feelings. :sniff sniff sniff: A very poor attempt too.

The problem, of course, is that the fact that the TSA folks keep referring to "SOP".

I don't want some moron who only knows what SOP is trying to protect me. That's why the people who protect me every day, police officers, have something called "discretion". They know what SOP is, and they know when to ignore it.

Do you? Or when something terrible happens on your watch, will you just ::shrug:: and refer to SOP? Do you know why it's SOP? Do you have any understanding of the rules that you follow everyday and why they exist?

According to the TSA website, I can get a hand search of Motion Picture Film. Can you explain, other than referring to the bible, er, SOP, why videotape is any different?


Of course, I left the best part of the story out. Everyone was following SOP and telling me I had to xray the box. Then I busted out this tale (which happens to be true) -

"These tapes are masters for an ESPN show we just spent $500,000 shooting. I'd rather not chance it."

That's when I was taken through security and the the guy made the phone call.

So it seems that SOP is "We don't want to be bothered, but if you bother us enough, we'll do something reasonable so you'll shut up and we can get back to yelling at people to take off their shoes."

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First, I have never asked for standardization.

Second, you still haven't been able to explain why you follow the SOP, other than you have to. You haven't exhibited any sort of advanced reasoning that makes people think you can, you know, make things secure. All you do is keep saying "I do this because the SOP tells me too."

Don't you care why? Don't you want to make some waves if the SOP is actually not keeping people safe?

And in the time honored tradition ofGodwin's Law, I'll leave you with this -

The Nazis were just following SOP.

Checking the videotapes is a particularly bad idea. Not only are they extremely valuable, but checked baggage is subjected to even higher-intensity x-rays! Seems much riskier to me. I would never do that. And it seems to me the screening manager used common sense, justifying his higher pay grade.

Bruce

Just a guess, but TSA probably wants to X-ray videotapes because of concerns over sharp objects such as boxcutters being hidden in the videotape case. Another example of TSA fighting the last war. For the millionth time, as long as pilots do not open the hardened cockpit door, the airliner cannot be used as a missile. Bottles of wine are on full-size airliners, so bad guys have the means to improvise and fabricate sharp objects if they want to injure passengers and/or flight attendants. Bad guys could also use belts or regular #2 pencils to injure passengers and/or flight attendants, so the likely concern over hidden sharp objects is misplaced. TSA SOP is BS.

Lighten up on myrgirl guys. She is telling you how it is! There are too many other things that could be in the vcr tapes and those things wouldnt be found with ETD. Also per federal law, the TSA cannot tell you that you cannot fly. They could in this case though deny the passenger access to the sterile area because the passenger wont comply with the requirement to have the vcr tapes x-rayed.

Deleted

OK, everybody, let's count: How many TSA staff have said to you, "Do you want to fly today?" In my case, the number has to be around 20. Anybody else want to add their count to the total?

Bruce

It seems to me that the screening manager inherently has the discretion that the supervisor does not have -- and exercised it. What's the problem?

If I showed up at a checkpoint carrying the Hope Diamond (or some similarly valuable object) and requested a hand check, I would hope (pun intended!) that somebody would have the discretion to do exactly that! Some things are just too valuable to run through the x-ray machine -- or to put into checked baggage.

Bruce

A fool with a rule is a tool. That's the fundamental truth of a bureaucracies.

Sheesh, something came out in the passenger's favor and it's the collective TSA jocks that are in a knot in this string.

Is there really any other aspect of this that hasn't been covered?

The thing we still haven't cleared up is the difference between generic videotape and 'motion picture tapes'. Magnetic videotape is used for the capture of motion pictures. Where is the distinction here?

Wouldn't denying access to the sterile area be tantamount to prohibiting a passenger to fly, since the passengers need to pass through the sterile areas to reach the plane?

Mike

It's the same veiled language that they use at shoe carnivals. They can't legally say (or so the TSAers here say) that you must remove your shoes. However, most shoe carnivals use the "We highly recommend that you remove your shoes" line and automatically send you to secondary if you don't. So they can't say it's required because they're not allowed, so they sidestep it with a "suggestion" that means exactly the same thing.

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Ah, that makes much more sense.

Mike

Hey man, I tried to end it by invoking Godwin's Law, but Bart, being the hardheaded fellow he is, totally missed the point.

And, of course, is still able to explain why he follows the rule, other than the fact that the rule exists.