Some changes are coming
 

Next week, the shoe rules are getting relaxed as is some of the SSSS procedures. Notice I did say relaxed! They arent going away totally but its getting more friendly for you.

And you could tell us about this?! Cool! ^

Cool
Had a bit of a relax going through RDU this past Sat. Waved on through with shoes on

thank you and hopefully it will be "a bit more relaxed" at sfo

eyecue, thanks for the heads-up. In another thread, I mentioned that there was probably some magic number of shoes that needed to be inspected, without finding a shoe bomb, before this frustrating policy would be relaxed or eliminated.
Guess that 10 billionth shoe must have passed through a WTMD in the last few days.

It will be interesting to see how EWR handles this change.

Funny, I was given the SSSS treatment yesterday at LAN because I didn't remove my shoes (less than ½ inch thick/didn't set off the WTMD) The TSA guy wanded my head and bare legs, and patted down my front - stomach, chest and armpits; usually it's just the small of the back that gets the pat down.

It had not passed through CLE lately. I recently was there when 3 senior citizens were treated like deaf people with mental disabilities. One elderly gentleman was yelled at for not removing his jacket before entering the WTMD. Another man, age approximately 65, American, was the target of about 5 straight minutes of hand wanding because of something beeping. Several of us in line remarked that he looked like a terrorist who could quickly kill someone with a No. 2 pencil. Meanwhile, two airport/airline employees (individuals with laminated badges that appeared official-looking) walked through the WTMD with their work boots on. Neither beeped, but then again as we all know TSA is not just looking for metal (on passengers).

As several of us have sketched, with this protocol it would be simple for such an employee to smuggle through explosives to a comrade who dutifully removes his shoes at the WTMD. That terrorist passenger would then pick up employee's IED footwear in the "sterile" area. Once aboard the plane, BOOM! The irony is that it would be almost impossible to prove the switch of footwear, so the shoe carnival would return with a vengeance.

I'm flying in and out of SFO next week. I'll report.

Jeepers! Next week the shoe and SSS rules are getting reLAXED!!! WOW!!! What'll we shoot for next? Dignity? Respect? The right to peacefully assemble...

...Nah! Wouldn't want to confuse anybody. So, how about free Tootsie Rolls instead of a constitution? Works for SOME, apparently...

My thoughts exactly.

While I appreciate the heads up, given how many stations completely ignore SOP, what difference does an SOP change make? :confused:

Like a red light in New York City....merely a suggestion.

I'm cautiously optimistic about these purported changes.

The other week the EWR terminal A TSA folks were telling people that if they didn't want to take their shoes off it was okay but they *had* to go to the new puffer machine in one of the lanes. Somehow I doubt any new rules will have an effect on EWR. They seem to make them up as they go.

Great. I just acquiesed and bought some of those new slip-on dress shoes to ease my airport experience. At least those shoes are comfortable.

Does this apply at EWR too?
 

Want to start taking bet's if any of these changes will be implimented at EWR?

SDF_Traveler

IND changes 9/16/05
 

So I have been in and out of IND almost everyday for the past eight days and today show carnival changed!

D Terminal - 1115a for NW and of course lady guarding the metal detector says shoes off - I respond that I will do secondary. So the secondary asks the girl if they've gotten the new SOP? I say let's hope so.

Change: Only swab shoe. No patdown, no hand wand, etc. Big improvement.

Last month walked through TPA, forgot to take my shoes off - didn't set off the detector - and they never stopped me or gave me a second "look" ?? ^

Um, that's the way it is supposed to be ;)

Most airports who follow the SOP, my hometown of MKE included, don't have the shoe fetish that some airports do, as the guidelines clearly state that passagners do not need to remove their shoes unless they(the shoes) a) set off the WTMD, or b) have a sole over 1" thick.

I work for airport ops and we understand that as of next week sometime if you have the shoes with the large soles and you don't want to take them off then you can have the etd screening done on them BUT if you alarm and it is your shoes and you don't take them off then you will get the whole wanding and limited pat-down so make sure they are medal free shoes. Also some other changes with selectee screening. I still am upset with the airlines and their laziness in not exempting a lot of the ssss on the boarding passes. They are the ones that select you, not TSA and when they don't exempt a soldier on a one way ticket or a couple rushing to a dying parents side on a last min ticket or a ticket change due to a cancellation it is bad. We get complaints from TSA because the airlines issues these tickets and they know the airline can over-ride this. We sometimes ask the person to go back to the ticket counter and tell them but most say it isn't worth the bother. We have a 99% satisfaction rate with our screeners, survey was done from a group for a week and they were very impressed with our group. We have a lot of elderly people in and out of our airport and they treat them great. Just hate that they get such a bad rap, we have a great group, maybe it is not the norm but we are happy with the job they do.

The only changes we've been briefed on at SAT pertain to checked baggage; and even then, we've already had a couple of flip-flops on procedure. So as of today, I'm still in the wait-and-see mode.

Rev 5 ch2.

Bart, I think we're flip flopping on the same procedures here. But the two new revisions every one is talking about pertain to the profile shoe policy and searching SSSS carryons. These are scheduled to start nation wide on Monday. These are full fledged SOP changes; I read it myself (in the SOP) yesterday.

Please, please tell me this new procedure has nothing to do with flip flops.

Only green flip flops on Tuesdays. Blue ones on Thursdays except for the first Thursday of the month, so on and so forth...

I had a discussion with the TSA supervisor there on the purpose of the sign posted along the security line. The sign said basically removing shoes are not required but "MAY" prolong the security screening procedure.

So when I tried to walk through with my shoes on the TSA told me I must remove my shoes or would face secondary screening. I told her to go back to grade school and learn the meaning of the word MAY. I was immediated tagged as unruly and she stopped the line and called for a supervisor. I had a couple hours to kill between flights so I chose to walk through the machine with my shoes on.

Wow!! What a rebel!!

I'll be looking for it; SOPs weren't available to us the last day I was at work (today being my RDO). Perhaps one of the office workers was busy updating them.

OMG! RELAXED SHOE AND SELECTEE RULES!!! I for one just cannot WAIT to get back down to the airport to experience the dignity and respect of personal groping in a friendly-fire Barefoot Dance of Coercion CP before it's all gone!

Dear me! (Hey: Ain't SOP somethin' ya do with stale bread?)

I'm hoping that the Lead I spoke with on Saturday morning at SFO hadn't received this new SOP yet.

For months they had been doing it properly and now they are going back to the shoe carnival again! :td:

Is that different from Rev 5 Ch. 2 Subsection EWR ?

I had an oddly not-too-unpleasant experience departing a CO flight over the Labor Day weekend. The screening area was very quiet with few people around. The guy suggested that I remove my shoes, and I told them that I didn't want doing that. I did not set off the metal detectory. He of course called for "male assist" and when the the other guy came over he asked what the matter was -- "shoes" was the answer. The guy doing the screening asked me why I didn't want to take my shoes off, and I just said that I didn't feel comfortable doing it. So all he did was swab my shoes -- I didn't have to take them off. I still got the full treatment otherwise, but at least I kept my shoes on. :)

The screenes were even more or less polite about the whole thing.

Another good answer is: "If you folks vacuumed periodically, I'd consider it." ;)

Every airport has different rules!!!!!!!!!!!

Some want to see BP at security - others don't give a hoot!
At some airports I have never had to take off shoes and sometimes the same belt will/will not set of the alarm. It is and has always been a crap shoot!

i know i'm in the minority thinking this, but small differences such as that don't seem to amount to much. a lot of confusion seems to stem from people not being informed of what's going on. "i fly X amount of times a year" doesn't mean that a person is any more informed about any of it. it just means that you've successfully plopped down the behind into the well used seat and jetted said behind across the sky. (there are exceptions to the rule, as some people are more observant)

it's relatively apparent the layout of each of the checkpoints. how the airport, airlines & TSA decide to do it is up to them. if anyone has ever spent some time asking the airline personnel or TSA about their checkpoint, i've found that most are more than willing to explain it. the melodrama about checking of the boarding passes gets old after the person in front of you for the Nth time goes off into some tirade. complain if it makes you feel better, then move on! keep the people-conveyor moving.

message is a general statement, sorry...i had to vent a bit. :)

that being said, it's not too much to ask to be informed of what's going on. i've lost count of how many of those flying early mornings for business who just "gave up" on trying and brusquely tries to push his way through and then gets stopped so that someone can check his boarding pass. communication is the responsibility of the airline/TSA employee, but it takes two to tango...

Huh? People who travel frequently are the most informed. They are the ones that see the huge inconsistencies in security screening from one airport to another.

What do you mean? Ask whom? If a flier knows what the TSA screening SOP is supposed to be with regard to shoes, etc., why would he/she need to ask what's going on?

You go into two different paths in this paragraph. First, observations gathered during flying experiences don't count, but there are more observant people. ??????

Yes, there are varying degrees of FFers knowledge of what the SOP may or may not be. The majority of TSA front-liners are good people, but there are enough bad eggs out there to cast doubt on what the SOP might be, or its arbitrary application. Said majority provide proof as to what SOP should be. Common sense dictates how much the BS detector will go off.


What do you talk about to a TSAer about their checkpoint? Do they give you a tour of the area....let you run the x-ray machine....let you kick the WTMD or stick the HHMD down your pants for fun?

Y'know, I have trouble picking out just one or two out of the masses of the TSA and airport personnel who trip all over themselves to go into detail on security procedures.

Let's get real -- if I started asking questions about the procedure I will either A) get lied to, or B) get "extra attention."


You must have the most horrible luck. I couldn't imagine that every time you go through a CP, the person in front of you complains about the BP issue.

Some of us put the BP in the bag that's already in the x-ray machine. It's the TSA's inconsistent procedures that contribute to the back-up that horribly inconveniences you.

Tell you what, go to ONT and see the twin 32" TV that blare out instructions on how to put everything through the X-ray machine, only to be told by the person at the WTMD to have the BP with you through the WTMD.


Yes, but when two different airports have two different sets of procedures, is that the fault of the passenger?

huge inconsistencies that i've seen pretty much revolve around shoes on/off and ticket checking. there are many FT'ers who didn't know that the "airline selects" or that the person checking ID's works for the airlines. or that the airlines control a good portion of the line, but not the "checkpoint" itself. a lot of people that i see when i go through ask the same question: "why does that guy get to go and i have to be stopped". with the quoted premise above they should already know. many do not.

from the comments in TS&S many still don't get the somewhat obtuse statement that is consistant at most airports regarding shoes (since you're using that one as an example). some airports will say "all shoes off" (against the rules), others will say "we 'suggest' you take the shoes off". like Bart(?) and another screener said, you don't have to outside, but if you don't there's a good chance you'll be set aside for more checking.

or at least that was similar to how it was explained to me...

at least the old ways... anyone have the "pleasure" of experiencing the new policy?

sidenote: the comment was about checking boarding passes. for those who get disoriented easily, and don't want to keep the boarding pass with thiem (i would..), ask if they need the ticket out. same with shoes, ask if they want the shoes off.

least stress, although everyone is free to choose their own path of least or most resistance. ^

it's presumed that there are more observant people out of any given group of flyers. doesn't necssarily mean that they're all FF'ers.

true that.

for those that can't handle the multiple ticket checks, a general overview is given. although there are more requests for a "strip search" than explanation as to why there are more checks.

sad thing is that sometimes those making the "strip search" comments seem to think that it's being original.

oy...

i've never "demanded" to know about some portion of it, but i've been treated well (in general) when treating the individual in kind.

"keep the boarding pass out?"

"yes sir"

"aight..."

it's not every time, not even most of the time. enough times to make me cringe every time i hear it.

i was told once a while back that the way the lines are set up is "airport/airline property" . the different setups, and different checkpoints is the result of the airport and how they decide to build it, the airlines/airport on how they want to set up the lines to the place, and the federales in how they want to man them. so in short, nope-not the passenger's fault-if the screener or airline person has a different procecure they should make it known. like i said before, communication is their responsibility. (but when in doubt, it doesn't hurt to ask, like wearing sneakers...)

i know we all hate to hear the often yelled briefing at the front of the checkpoint, but i'd rather have that and people listen to it and keep things moving than scrambling around to do it right the 2nd time.

but enough of my ramblings... :D

ooo! one more! people who leave their trash or plastic trays on the table where you load up your stuff. pick it up so i can move!

ok, now i'm done.

So do any consipiracy theorists think that this is just so there can be a "planted" shoe-bomber type so they can increase usage of the shoe removal "rule"? :D

Hopefully not!

I'm WAY certain the "extra attention" of secondary is primarily for retaliation against anyone who would dare question Big Bro. It serves absolutely no other purpose and is safely beyond the inquiry of all us suspects. Due process?

Doo-doo process!

Enjoy for me, y'all. I don't even want to watch. Might step in somethin' with my wanded bare feet.