Peetah and Dovster both of your replies further illustrate a violent and threatening meaning to the original post. That is my reason for feeling frightened and the posts crossing the line.... :( as far as it involving another country that was not in anyway my issue with the post....it was the implied threat....

Trixievictoria, you came onto a thread which was fairly light-hearted and started tossing around insults and implications:

"And if someone had replied quickly.....then you would have said they have too much help or they should get back to shoe sniffing or too much time on their hands or the hundred other replies I have seen here".

"I bet you would not have been happy if the Admiral himself answered you....because most of the PITA's here would not be"

"you obviously feel so superior to TSA surely you can figure the answer out yourself"

"Oh and OP? why do you carry a zippo lighter with no lighter fluid anyway? I can guess...but I am curious as to your reply."

Harry Truman once said, "If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen." We're not asking you to get out of the kitchen, but if you can't stand the heat I suggest not throwing lit matches onto kindling.

Now that would be the reply I would expect....did any of those replies involve or hint violent retaliation for posts made?


I am sure that ment to be kind and fuzzy.... :( and everyone of those replies made by me were in reference to posts I have seen made in this forum over and over.......toward TSA.

And where, in it, do you find any hint of violent retaliation? If I were to do such a thing (which, of course, would require you coming to the Tel Aviv Meet), it would result in exactly what I said -- a thorough security check.

Unlike what we have to go through everytime we pass through TSA checks, it would be handled intelligently. You would, as I said, have your luggage checked by both machine and by hand (which happens to me in the States quite often) and you would be asked enough questions to satisfy Security that you do not present a threat.

You would not be picked out of line at random and be groped. If you did have something seen as dangerous -- perhaps a small knife -- you would be allowed to mail it home. You would not be subject to a fine.

If you had a weighted bookmark with you, you would be allowed to keep it -- and certainly the police would never be called in because of it.

You would, indeed, learn what thorough security is -- and it is not the expensive joke that the TSA keeps playing on us.

What I don't understand is what dog does trixie have in this fight? (Sorry, bad pun, it's that "poodle" thing again.) If her job is housewife, as she states, then why be the resident apologist for TSA? :confused:

She clearly has no reason to even be in the conversation by virtue of being neither a FF or an employee. Just someone standing on the sidelines ragging on the people in the game I suppose. Well, we all need our hobbies I suppose. :rolleyes:

Trixie has said in other threads that she is a former schoolteacher who has decided to become a TSA screener.

Hopefully, she will (like Bart and several others TSA employees who post here) realize that the official line is not always the right one and not, as some others have, mindlessly side with the TSA when even the slightest bit of common sense will show it to be be in the wrong.

Of course you meant you and the other posters would like to see me get gently wanded.... :rolleyes: My Husband has traveled to your country several times and he assured me that I would not be gently wanded if you did as you said....

LEX-LGA You are right....I agree, and no matter what I say or do...I have taken my knocks here and even when you and I have gone at it...Poodle jokes and all you have never posted any sort of reply of this caliber...for that I respect you ^

....and if that held true to this forum...half the posts on my "Am I qualified to work for TSA" thread would not be there either....and the thread would not have had to be locked due to that fact either....but I guess we ALL need our hobbys....

In spanish that is called Transito...one way....

Actually, Trixie, I meant that I would like you to learn what real security is all about -- and it is not about the TSA farce.

A security check in TLV is done a case-by-case, step-by-step, basis. A 70-year-old Israeli grandmother travelling with her baby grandchildren is not going to get the same degree of questioning (or physical inspection) as a 22-year-old Palestinian male.

Yes, this is profiling. But it is also sensible. If Israeli grandmothers start making suicide attacks and Palestinian males stop, it will be the grandmothers who will be those most closely checked.

If I were to tell Israeli security that you got an unopened package from an Arab man, you would be asked about it. The questioning (done in a public place -- not in a secret interrogation room) would continue until Security believed that the report was probably untrue.

Even then, however, your baggage would be checked by both machine and hand and you would be wanded.

Only if something then showed up would the inspection go any further. If the wanding indicated that you have something hidden in your shirt (and I am not talking about the slight piece of wire in a bra) you would be taken to a private room for a body check.

But I agree that my post contained a threat -- not to you, but to your preconceived notions of what real security entails. Use of screeners' brains is much more important than indiscriminate use of wands.

In an amazing coincidence, two of my inquiries (about different subjects) received the same response and in about the same length of time.

Bear in mind that TSA's "Contact Center" is not run by TSA but by a large contractor: Accenture -- the same company that processed all those thousands of applicants for screener positions in 2002-2003.

Warms the cockles of your heart, don't it? :)

Dovster,
I'm wondering how practical it would be to apply the same methodology here in the US. Most people can't tell the difference between a 22 year old Palestinian male and a Mexican-American one or even someone of Native American, French and African-American descent who was born and raised in Des Moines. My point here is that we Americans are not very good at assessing people's ethnicity based on physical appearances. We think we are, but we're usually guessing wrong more than being right.

The other point is that it seems our concept of "justice" or "fairness" is based on equally screwing over everybody. Don't mean to be flippant or sarcastic with that comment; however, the very first thing most people do whenever they feel they are being singled out is look around at someone who appears to fit the same circumstances and ask, "why aren't you doing to this to him (or her)?" The difference between the US and most other countries is that we're obligated, as a society and by our laws, to answer that question.

My last point is that under our current procedures, regardless of what people think of them, I hear it from passengers of all creeds, ethnicities, religions, sexual preferences, you name it, that we are unfairly discriminating against them, particularly whenever they are selectees. Common question they all ask, "do I look like a terrorist?"

I think if we were to adapt the type of screening methodology you describe, we would be inundated with complaints, lawsuits and accusations of being racists, homophobes, sexists and jackbooted thugs. I mean, we're already getting these sort of complaints as it is now, so what's a few hundred thousand more, eh? :p But that's my point, I think it's politically easier to defend a policy that treats everyone the same, even 90 year old grandmothers, as opposed to singling out certain people based on what a screener may determine as fitting a certain profile. That's the nature of our society.

I think the people who advocate the type of screening you describe (not referring to you but others who would join the bandwagon), do so because they believe this is going to be applied to someone else. The moment they're asked these detailed questions, the first thing they're going to do is lament, "why aren't you doing this to him (or her)?"

It is no easier to tell the difference between a 22-year-old Palestinian male and a 22-year-old Jewish Israeli whose parents or grandparents immigrated to Israel from Yemen or North Africa.

I chose this person for my example because he meets the profiling requirements on all three counts: Age, nationality/religion, and gender. A 22-year-old Jewish Israeli (or American) male will also be profiled, albeit from a less suspicious starting point. So will a 22-year-old Dutch woman.

Understand that everyone is questioned before getting on a flight. I am 59, male, with an obvious American accent but an Israeli passport, an El Al and Arkia frequent flyer, and I will be questioned until Security is satisified that I present no threat. The difference is that they will be satisifed more quickly in my case.

In addition to the profiling elements I mentioned above -- and, indeed, more important then them -- is if something, anything, seems so far out of the usual as to raise suspicions.

A few years ago a black woman, in her late 40's, tried to board El Al in FCO. Her answers rang all kinds of bells with El Al. She told them that she was an American Air Force officer -- a lieutenant colonel -- on duty at the Navy base in Naples, had credentials showing that she was with NATO Intelligence, and that she had no idea of what she would be doing in Israel apart from staying at the Hotel Adiv in Tel Aviv.

A friend of hers who lives in the Galilee was setting up an itinerary for her, she said.

The story sounded so outlandish that El Al Security called the friend at his home to verify it. I know, but I was the friend.

Police may not admit it openly but good ones profile all the time. If a cop spots a man in his 50's hanging around a children's playground, he is apt to start up a "friendly" conversation until he feels comfortable about why the guy is there.

If a black male were to be seen near a predominently white high school, having brief conversations with individual students and then exchanging something with them, the cop would find out if he is selling drugs or merely giving out coupons to a local movie house.

If an Orthodox Jew was seen observing a mosque regularly, the beat copy would find out if he is thinking of converting or has a more sinister motive.
The same would be true of a Moslem near a synagogue.

My UIG (Used Italian Girlfriend) lives in a section of Milan which gets no tourism. Last year, she went into a bank near her home while I waited outside reading an English newspaper. After I was there about 10 minutes, two beat cops (a man-woman team that works together) asked me if they could "help" me. I told them I was waiting for my girlfriend and they continued to chat with me for a few minutes. They moved away a bit but stayed until close she came out of the bank.

Now they know me and we exchange greetings when we meet, but I was unquestionably profiled that first time out.

Bart, you of all people, should have known that everyone is questioned at TLV. Your statement gives me pause to wonder.

Thanks, Dovster, for clarifying.

I was talking about the detailed questions; the follow-up questions that are posed to some people but not others based purely on a screener's personal assessment of an individual. I don't know if it's possible to reach that level of screener discretion in all 450 airports manned by TSA compared to the few in Israel. Call me cynical, but I just don't see how TSA can reach that level given its micromanaging bureaucracy, susceptibility to public and political pressure and the basic belief in our society about "fairness" that I described earlier.

Yes, but you described circumstances which have clearly unusual contrasts. What about the terrorist who is dressed conservatively, is carrying a laptop, is an American Airlines Platinum Club member (or whatever they call it) and even goes as far as mildly complaining about the inconvenience of the security procedures yet complies with them nonetheless? It's tricky trying to break a cover story unless you know specifically how to identify inconsistencies or correctly interpret nervous behavior. It requires a level of skill that, quite frankly, would be better spent in law enforcement or intelligence than at airport security screening.

I hear you about how it should be, and I really don't disagree. I just don't see how it could be accomplished given all the societal and political factors that affect Americans differently than they do other nations. Hate to put it this way, but perhaps if we suffered more frequent terrorist attacks we would change our mindset. But that's a hell of a way to go about it. As you know, Israel has suffered terrorist attacks greater in terms of frequency and poulation percentage than we have in the US which gives Israelis a greater sense of survival.

We're too spoiled in this country to make the connection. Many have already forgotten what it was like on September 11th. Many have returned to the old practice of calling any sense of patriotism and national pride as jingoism and condescending nationalism.

I think this is a matter of screening and training of TSA personnel. I can't believe that Americans are inherently unable to learn to make the kind of judgements that European screeners are trained to make.

I've been wanded, patted down, had my shoulder bag, carryon and checked luggage search (not all on the same trip). I've never felt indignant because I could always understand the reason (even if I felt the reasons- bulky sweater, toothpaste tube in suitcase, etc.- might be a bit silly). I think completely random, rather than targetted, searches and questioning are just a waste of time and resources. This is one of the reasons that I always feel safer flying from Europe to the US than the reverse.

Now here where I say take your own advice.... @:-)

And when you go too far...you admit you went too far...might make your opinions respected more... ^