Originally Posted by Bart

I don't know where you got your facts from; however, I'd like to clarify a few things for you. First of all, TSA screeners are not law enforcement officers. They cannot order you to do anything against your wishes nor can they detain you; they certainly cannot arrest you.

When you enter a checkpoint, you do so voluntarily. Actually, it's an agreement you've made as a condition for flying a commercial airliner. If you do not successfully complete the screening process, then you don't fly. It's as simple as that.

If you enter a checkpoint and have an illegal item or commit a crime in the process, then it is no longer a security matter. It is a law enforcement matter, and the airport police will take over the situation. That's when all of the legal principles involved in due process comes into effect. Again, what we're talking about here is, for example, if you have a firearm in your possession at the checkpoint, illegal drugs found incidental to a security search or if you assault one of the screeners. (Yeah, I'm oversimplifying it for the sake of discussion.) These situations all meet the minimum standards for police officers to take initial action; although they may choose to exercise police discretion and not necessarily arrest you. This is strictly a law enforcement officer decision not TSA's. But TSA, along with the airline GSC, will offer their recommendations.

TSA was originally created to screen all modes of transportation. This should not be a surprise to you. However, the priority, clearly during the aftermath of 9/11, was with airport security screening. Again, this should not be a surprise. Eventually, TSA is supposed to establish screening methodologies for other modes of transportation or at least address security issues. I don't necessarily envision us having security checkpoints at bus terminals and train stations; however, I think there will certainly be TSA security inspectors who periodically review security procedures at these various modes of public transportation.

You have not lost your civil liberties. The Constitution is still the Law of the Land. I hope you are objective enough to honestly review the information you have available to you and not fall for the empty rhetoric and cheap hyperbole of anti-government paranoia.

Originally Posted by JS

Bart, among other problems, the TSA fines are clearly a Constitutional violation of due process. If someone brings a gun through the checkpoint, the person can be fined anyway owing to current law (laws we are actually allowed to read :rolleyes: ).

Fines for common household objects such as scissors or cake knives are levied by the TSA because the police won't do it since it's not an actual criminal offense (misdemeanor or otherwise).

You can sit there and say that the TSA would never issue a fine for someone who accidentally brings a household object to the airport, but unfortunately that is not true, and, unlike an abusive police officer, the victims have no recourse.

Originally Posted by Bart

If you strike a TSA screener or verbally abuse a screener (and I'm talking about going beyond mere disagreement; I've witnessed passengers yell racist epithets at my screeners), then you should be fined accordingly.

Originally Posted by FWAAA

Excellent post.

I disagree in part with this paragraph. If you strike a screener, then you should face criminal justice, not a civil fine from the TSA. If our criminal justice system levies a fine (along with substantial jail time), then I'm ok with that.

Verbal abuse? Do you really support the imposition of civil fines for verbal abuse? Screeners shouldn't have to endure racial epiteths, but I would prefer that we rely on our criminal justice system to determine facts and levy punishment. If verbal abuse rises to a level the TSA finds unacceptable, then the passenger should be arrested by the LEO for disorderly conduct/breach of the peace/whatever it's called in that jurisdiction.

Originally Posted by Wiirachay

What's a LEO? :confused:

- Pat

Originally Posted by rgfloor

"What I don't support is a bullying attitude towards passengers. You are not the enemy; it is your safety and best interests we should serve with zeal and professionalism. However, every once in a while, there's one or two of you whose behavior is unacceptable, and we shouldn't tolerate it nor should you. For every action, there's a consequence. I demand it for myself; I don't think it is unreasonable to expect it from others."

Bart, I quite agree, however when those one or two whose behavior is unacceptable are TSA how are we "John Q Public" supposed to demand consequences? Or even get any kind of answers!!

Originally Posted by rgfloor

Bart, Might I suggest that you take a trip in civilian clothes (no big blue TSA on the back of the shirt) and go thru some of the security lines without flashing ID or telling anyone that you are TSA then come back with more realistic ideas.

On sending a TSA complaint form been there done that twice NO RESPONSE.
Calls to FSD office, we will look into it, NO RESPONSE. You may have the book answer but PLEASE GET WITH THE REALITY!

Originally Posted by rgfloor

Bart, That was not my idea at all. As I read your post here in this forum and on many threads you are always apoligising for the stupid activities of other screeners and saying this is not the way it should be. Unfortunately it is the way we FF's see it. I was merely suggesting a way for you to experience the real FF's dilemma. I am truly sorry if it came across as sarcasm.

Originally Posted by Cholula

Until a TSA person walks in a FF's shoes ( apologize for the analogy :) ) or a FF could be TSA-For-A-Day, I don't think we are going to have any common ground for comparing our frustrations.