TSA Help?!?!
 

Guys and girls please help if you can. For the 5th flight in a row I have had issues with on line check in. Well, today I show up at for my flight to LGA very early as I could not use OLCI. The check in agent very politly says "Mr RoboBR you are on the DO NOT FLY LIST". She gets on the phone with TSA and after about 30 mins of faxing my various ID's (I carry my passport and my resident alien card as I am a UK citizen) the TSA agent says "you are cleared for this flight". I ask how to correct this for future flights and am promptly told to "deal with it. You should consider yourself lucky that you are being cleared for this flight and to expect this to continue for the forseeable future"! Well needless to say I am angry, confused etc.etc.etc. If I am a threat then why was I cleared for this flight???? I received NO extra screening and fly Co 60,000 butt in seat miles this year. I just don't get it. So if anybody has some advice it would be greatly appreciated. :confused: :confused:

Moderators: if this post belongs elsewhere please accept my apologies and move to apropriate forum.

The EXACT same thing happened to the guy in front of me at SFO the other day. He, too, is a frequent flyer and suddenly found himself on the list.

Please continue this discussion in the Security forum. I'm moving the thread there now.

Xyzzy
CO forum moderator

I believe the no-fly and watch lists vary depending on the airline. I flew with two friends on American Airlines from DCA to MIA back in October, and one of them was flagged because his name (a common Arabic one) matched four terrorists' names. It took a while at the ticket counter to clear him, and his boarding pass printed out with SSSS. However, this same friend flew US Airways out of LGA just a few weeks before and had no troubles. This may be what happened to you; it sounds like CO may have updated its lists recently.

Contact your local FBI field office; they might be able to help. Good luck!

From what some congressmen's past experience, you might be in for one hell of a ride. :(

Contact your congressman and state senators. You're going to need their help.

At the same time, check out the crap they're spitting out here: http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?theme=173

Call, write, call, write, call, write and generally get in their face.

And while you're at it, ACLU. Newspapers, TV stations, etc. The more public attention this gets, the better.

Eventually, you'll get some letter that says you should present that letter when you check in.

In the meantime, try changing your reservation name slightly by adding or removing your middle initial. Last I heard, the idiots at the TSA still do an exact match. Go figure. :mad:

I am pretty darn sure it's a list from the Feds, and if anyone, they updated the list. Airlines don't have the resources to maintain and update these lists, hence the feds keep it for all the airlines.

And sometimes it takes them a while to actually single someone out. A good example was Yosuf Islam, better known to the work as Cat Stevens, who was not allowed into the US, in fact his plane landed in Canada on his way to (believe) NYC. After he deplaned, the rest of the pax continued on.

Oh, and sorry about your friend being put on the list. Believe it was Mass. Senator Ted Kennedy who somehow ended up on the list, and even for him it wasn't exactly automatic to get removed from it.

EmailKid

Response
 

Try the TSA office of the Ombudsman. They are the ones that can help you.

Please make sure to file a complaint, preferably one with the airline, TSA AND the federal DOT, about this employee. (It was unclear if the person was airline or TSA who said that.) That was a completely inappropriate thing to say and that person should be terminated.

IMO (s)he (?) should also be flogged in public, wear a scarlet hammer/sickle for life, and be required to tell her children daily that she is a horrible person undeserving of life in a free country, but I rarely seem to get my way when it comes to punishments. :(

Edit: Oh, and while waiting for the endlessly slow TSA ombudsman process to deny you have a problem or ignore your complaint, try flying with various combinations of your title, first, middle, and last names/initials in varying orders to resolve the problem. It is perfectly legit to show only the initial for everything but your last name and even legit to put your last (family) name as your given name. If someone grumbles about the name vs. the ID, look them in the face and say that's how your culture/family handles names. The rearrangement may fix the no-fly problem.

Also, consider contacting the ACLU--you may even be able to join the lawsuit. (Has it been certified as class action yet?)

Any Idea What Happened
 

RoboBR - Do you have any idea what happened? Are *you* actually on the list or is it just your name (i.e. - someone else with the same name) which is on the list?

I believe the OP stated that they are not a US citizen. Writing to a senator won't get him/her very far :)

In Yosuf Islam's case the flight originated outside of North America. When the flight originates outside of North America it is policy not to submit the names for vetting (or whatever) until the flight is airborne. Go figure.

Yeah, I'm curious too.

Was he drunk or something? ;)

No. It was more unusual than that. He was sober!

I've found that finding a friendly congresscritter will help anyone including those outside of the country.

I no longer live in the US, but I still use an address in the US for receiving mail. The congresscritters that have jurisdiction for that address usually hear it from me (often) about the various issues affecting US policy.

Just thought of something. What about misspelling one's name to get "off" the list? George Jorge Goerge Geogre...

The story so far
 

First of all thank you all very much for your input. I did 2 things yesterday. First was contact the TSA. I would love to know where they find the people that staff this call centre. Not qualified to do anything more than take your name, address, phone number and tell you somewon will contact you in the next 3-4 weeks. Brilliant! Next I took the advise of a previous poster and contacted the local FBI field office. They will see me early next week. Person I talked to was very polite and helpful but they cannot give any information out over the phone. Advised me that they were happy to help i9f they could however with the upcoming NYE celebrations the office was very busy. (I am currently in NYC) So I wait and see what unfolds. I also will be writing to the senior staff at Co. this week. My thinking here is that maybe they can use their powers in DC to help fix this problem not for me but across the board. I did not have a issue with this the first time it happened. 2nd time..... well...OK. But Monday was the 5th time!!! If the TSA continues to make it difficult for us FT'ers, how long will we stick around? As I said in my OP, I fly Co 60,000 miles per year give or take. I also fly about 20-25,000 miles per year on my clients private jets. (Yes, it is a really nice perk!!) That is up 75% since 2001 and the creation of the TSA!!!

I will continue to keep you updated, thanks again for your input. Please keep it coming.

Oh, and yes I also filed a complaint against the employee with the attitude. It was the TSA employee not the Co agent.

Sorry to be dumb but what does this mean???

Ombudsman
 

IS the person that champions your cause. They are assigned to deal with issue resolution. A lot of government agencies have them. TSA has their own.

That's the major problem with the list. Obviously I haven't seen it but from news stories and complaints like the OP's, the list appears to contain only a name (ie. David Nelson) and little if anything else. It may be that 'removal' from the list consists solely of adding a bit more information (SSN, DL etc.) to distinguish between individuals with the same name. If there's a bad David Nelson out there waiting to hijack a plane :rolleyes: then any and all David Nelsons are going to have to stay on the list.

Now how they got there in the first place is a separate discussion.....

A colleague of mine has a similar problem. He has a very common american sounding name -- something as common as Mark Smith (not his real name). He was on the "do not fly" list and went thru this harrassment for months. Finally got the TSA to remove it. Or at least he thought so. Then he showed up at SFO for a trans-pacific flight on Singapore air and they called the SF Police Department who slowly searched thru every nick and cranny in his bags. If he hadn't arrived early, he would have missed his plane. He has no clue whether he is back on the list or whether Singapore Air just had an old copy.

What a nightmare!!

Speaking of nightmares. Another colleague -- this one a french citizen was leaving Beijing. His passport had recently expired and he had a brand new one. The Chinese officials looked at the "virgin" passport and assumed it was fake. They even told him (in very poor english) that he didn't look french. He tried speaking French, but they had no clue what language it was. Eventually, some supervisor let him through and he was allowed on the plane, but it wasn't a pleasant experience. Something to remember when you renew passports.

This is all so sorry. Such a waste of manpower. Waste of money. Loss of freedom. So sad.

It's not entirely a waste of money, someone got government benefits and a pay raise. At the cost of what's left of our freedom and dignity.

Interestingly, a lot of names on the list are not those of terrorists at all, but names of fugitives (i.e. murderers and kidnappers still on the run). Someone found a copy of the watch list and posted a link on this board a while back.

Had a jumpseater on my flight and he was saying how he is often subjected to extra crutiny because he shares the same first and last name AND birthdate as someone of the no fly list. Only difference is the middle name, but middle initial is the same.

He related one incident when he flew the plane into an airport and was going to deadhead back in the same airplane. When he went to get his boarding pass, he was again checked out.

Made no sense at all. He could be at the controls of the plane without any problem, but in order to sit in the back, he had to be cleared.

With all due respect to the OP, why does everyone assume that this is a mistake? Perhaps there is a good and justifiable reason that the OP's name is on the no-fly list.

Then why have they always cleared him/her to fly after going through the rigamarole? Seems if they actually meant for the OP to be on the list (and not just someone with the same / similar name), they wouldn't clear him or her for the flight at all, or would divert it like they did for the artist formerly known as Cat Stevens.

The OP is non-threatening enough that he has a resident alien card, non-threatening enough that he has been cleared for each of these flights, and non-threatening enough that they aren't trying to arrest him or deport him.

IMO there should not be a class of people that are "too threatening" to fly but not threatening enough to arrest and give due process in a court of law. Such depravation of freedom without due process is disgusting.

The OP and everyone else on or matching the no-fly list should either be 1) deported due do evidence against them (in the case of non citizens), 2) arrested, tried with full due process, and imprisoned if convicted, or 3) allowed to travel freely without hassle.

I suspect (3) is the correct choice for the OP. It may take the US govt months/years to figure that out. That is a shame, and the people responsible should be punished.

Studentff Well Said ^^

mpc1

Studentff is exactly right. This no-fly list is part of the charade of increased security. If someone is on the list, then check out that person when he or she is stopped at an airport. If a terrorist, deport or prosecute. Those two choices require too much effort on the part of the government, unless the person is being allowed to continue in an effort to make a case against others higher up the chain.

'-

No disrespect taken and you could be right- there could be a justifiable reason for me being on the list. BUT, if that is the case then 1: why was I allowed thru security w/o additional screening? 2: in June '03 I renewed my resident alien card and went thru an intense FBI screening and INS interview. If there had been any questions, my card would not have been renewed and proper action would have been taken; and 3: I've been flying consistently since the creation of the TSA and have never been on the list before. Why now? If there is something wrong w/ me, what's taken them so long to find it? And why won't they tell me what the problem is?
And oh yeah, not only have I taken private tours of the White House, I have been cleared by the Secret Service to put a microphone on a President of the United States!

I have been in the same situation. I fly for business alot, over 50,000+ miles a year. Last month I was flying NW to Chicago to see a friend then on to Wisconsin for business. I tried checking in on line and I got a message saying see the agent at the airport. On my day of departure I tried the kiosk, same response see the ticket agent. She asked for my itinerary and ID and picked up the phone and after about a 5 minute conversation (repeating my name, destination and repeating what my ID was) she printed out my boarding passes. When I inquired as to what was going on and who at NW I should contact, she indicated she was talking to the FAA, not the airlines :(

I have a VERY common name, last name of Smith. But anyway i was told my name was on a watch list and thats all they would tell me.

I am traveling to Europe next month and I am starting to think that they might pull a Cat Stevens on my a** and land in Canada and drag me off the plane.

Funny thing was though, when I was returning to NC from WI, I was able to check in using the kisok at the ATW airport. I haven't traveled since, so I wonder if my name was removed?

Other than slowly seeing my right to privacy dwindle away, should I be worried about my international travel plans in February?

Make sure to wear warm clothes. It's cold in Bangor in February.

RoboBR: I too am British with a PR card and wound up on some sort of list for a couple of weeks last year. It was all very annoying and because I am fairly vocal about my feelings regarding the whole war on terror - patriot act - security situation, would not have been able to extricate myself from this pickle without help. At one point I was told that there was no such thing as a No Fly List by the TSA.

I got lucky though, a British manager at UA sorted things out for me prior to a flight. I believe she spent a lot of time on the phone with UA security and the powers that be to get me off the non-existent list. I hope you are also able to sort this out. You might ask to see if the airline station manager can do something to assist you if there are routes you fly regularly.

You are joking,.............aren't you?

:confused:

The morons at DHS have so far diverted to Bangor 2 flights from Europe bound for the US (and not Bangor). There's always the possibility they'll do it again.
:mad:

Other than that, yes, a mild poking of fun.

TSA list
 

I am part way through getting my placement on the list resolved. I am sure there is no reason for me to be on the list, but I have a common name and assume that someone else with my name is the valid listee. I cannot check in on line, nor at the kiosks; when I go to the counter they make a call, they won't say to who, and give my name and birthdate, then I am cleared.

The TSA ombudsman is at 571 227 2383. They also have an 800 number, but you will have to look it up on their website as I have forgotten it. When you call, all they do is take your name and address to send you a form; don't expect a resolution from the clerk manning the phone. When they sent me the form, the cover letter acknowledged that they maintain a No Fly List, and a separate Selectee List (people allowed to fly but subject to enhanced screening).

I think the advice to call or write congresscritters is misplaced. In the first place, the congresscritter never sees your letter; it goes to an aide who forwards it to the appropriate agency, but not to the level where the work is being done. When the agency receives the congresscritter's letter, all work on your case is stopped while they run around trying to give an answer to the congresscritter; the answer invariably just gives the status of your case. After they send the letter to the congresscritter your case goes back to where it was; almost never is there any expediting done, other than getting the letter to the congresscritter. The result is that there is always a delay involved when you involve any politician, unless, of course, it is a relative.

I'm not really upset about the heightened security. We are, not of our own volition, at war with terrorism. Much of what is being done is more appropriately classed as intelligence gathering, rather than criminal prosecution. They can't prosecute someone until they have done the crime, or at least engaged in a conspiracy, so we are going to have to learn to live in a country where intelligence gathering is a continuing thing. As long as religious fanatics are willing to engage in terrorism (and I don't limit this to the religion of Islam), we will have to endure this unpleasantness.

Thanks Cleveland Brown for your help, every time I fly I go through what you described in your second paragraph. Do you think I will have a problem flying internationally? as I have a trip to the Netherlands in February. I e-mailed the TSA omsbudman at the DHS yesterday and if I don't see a reply from them in a week of so I will call the number you've provided.

What sort of information have you had to provide in this process of getting your name removed from the list? I ask so I can get a head start on getting it together.

Thanks again

Dave in N.C.

My last international flight was before they started sharing this list with the airlines. The only hint I had was that when I returned stateside I was always taken to a separate office at immigration. I sat around trying not to look guilty, and eventually they asked me where I had been, then let me through.

My airline didn't do international checkin on line or at the kiosks, but at the counter I never had a problem. I would anticipate that on my next international flight, they will have to make the call to get me cleared.

When this refusal to allow online checkin happened the second time I realized I had a problem, and the airline gave the the email address ot the TSA ombudsman. I emailed them but never received a response. Only when I made the call did I get a response, and that was they would send me a letter, but it would take about two weeks to arrive; it took three. You fill out a form that just has identification information, but you must send it back accompanied by three documents from a list they attach. I recall one was a certified copy (not a reproduction) of your birth certificate (I didn't want to send my only copy of this valuable ancient document and it takes too long to get another certified copy). Others were notarized copies of your passport, your visa (I don't think they meant credit card), your driver's license, a military id card, a voter registration card, and some others I have forgotten.

I had some trouble getting notarized documents because the notary public at my bank refused to notarize federal or state documents. I went home, looked up the law and realized he was wrong, and went to another bank where they notarized them.

I am confident that this is going to take a long long time, so I wrote my airline today asking that they ascertain that I am not the person on the TSA list, then change the name on my account to some variant of my actual name that will distinguish me from the guy on the list. I don't really like my middle name, nor being 111, but if having that on an airline ticket will solve this problem I'll live with it. Interestingly, when I emailed the airline asking this correction to an account I opened on line, they responded that they could only change the name if I made a written request, accompanied by documentation of my name. Apparently they are concerned the I would somehow transfer my worthless FF miles to someone else.

Incidentally, the TSA ombudsman can be reached at Phone: 1-866-289-9673 toll-free.

I am not sure if the story is true, but some seemingly wealthy person found himself suddenly on the no fly list.

He tried the usual approach with no success. And every time he had to fly, found himself at the airport long before his flight was due in order to get time to be cleared. In the end, fed up with the all procedure he tried another trick:

He inquired for the price of a private jet, chose a nice Gulfstream, calculated all the running costs for a year, had himself a pro forma invoice made and sent it to the TSA or whatever. Within a very short time he got a result. They wanted more information on that invoice: He got the lawyer of his company to answer, giving them a ten day notice to pay threatening a lawsuit for loss of revenue and so on.

He got close attention and within a week, the man had no problem checking in at any airline...

good news, I hope
 

I got my clearance letter from TSA today, far sooner than I had anticipated, considering that they never responded to my initial email, and the clerk when I called advised me (accurately) that they would send me a form to complete, but it would take two weeks to get here. It took them a bit over a month to issue the clearance letter, from the time I mailed the form and evidence. That's a pretty good response time for any federal agency to get something done.

I faxed a copy of the letter to Continental today; when I called, they seemed to feel it wouldn't take long for them to get me cleared, but the jury is still out on that.

There are some who might consider Ted Kennedy a terrorist. :D