Hi,

What are the search, questioning, etc. that one would have to go through if flying from Japan to Mexico with a plane change in LAX ? Could you stay airside all the time ? Would your PNR details be communicated to US Customs even though you are not entering the US ?

I am considering NRT-YVR-MEX as a substitute itinerary, if this can prevent my rights from being violated.

I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, Richelieu, but you can not transit the U.S. without a visa. You will be searched, interrogated, photographed, fingerprinted, and treated however the U.S. authorities wish to treat you. I would recommend taking an alternate routing.

Details are here.

There may be an exception if you are a citizen of a visa waiver country:

Andorra
Austria
Australia
Belgium
Brunei
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany
Iceland
Ireland
Italy
Japan
Liechtenstein
Luxembourg
Monaco
the Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Portugal
San Marino
Singapore
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom *

Thank you for your answer, GradGirl. I read the website, and it's not reassuring. Even being from a visa waiver program country, it is clear that I would be subject to more privacy invasion than I would allow in return for the benefit of a shorter connection time.

The old immigration form, the one in which you had to state that you were not a member of a communist party, was making me cringe as I felt my freedom of thought was violated. I suppose it's not the right time to visit the US.

And only until September 30th, then all these nations' citizens will have their mug shot and finger-prints taken. And we all now know how easy it is for an innocent person to be matched to an evil-dooer's print by DHS and the FBI; just ask Oregon lawyer Brandon Mayfield!

So yes, please go via YVR. It is far more capable of handling international traffic than LAX or HNL (can't comment about SFO).

Plus JAL still flies a YVR-MEX 5th freedom, so you might not even have to change planes.

Richelieu, please route around our country for the time being. We are ill right now. Check back in a couple of years but best to avoid it for the time being.

I agree.

I'm sorry my country is so incredible stupid and inhospitable to guests, even those simply passing through its airports. Please consider the US in the future, once the current idiocy has gone. Hopefully, this will begin to happen once Regime Change 2004 commences on 2 Nov 2004.

The US used to have a fairly simple transit-without-visa program. Essentially, you'd just be escorted from point to point while in the US airport. No additional questioning that I was ever aware of.

But the gov't nixed the program after 9/11. It's too bad, as it was a good source of income for the airlines...I used to have at least one or two TWOV's out of every int'l destination. But obviously, no more..

Have taken that JL flight, but only MEX-YVR. What used to happen in YVR is that those continuing on to NRT did not even have to clear Canadian immigration & customs and were channeled off to a holding area until departure time (this was a few years ago though). Downside to all this is an older 747-300 on the route.

But yes, should you choose to go through LAX, you will have to undergo the same procedure as if your final destination were the US...

This is unreal. Every sovereign country has the right to monitor and control its borders, including the United States. I've been subjected to minor questioning when transiting Amsterdam, and it didnt bother me in the least - I'm a guest in their country, and they are doing me a favor by admitting me. Admission to any country other than your own is a privilege, not a right. I try to always remember that when traveling to Europe. I wish folks visiting this country (or living in this country) would also remember it.

If asking a few simple questions at entry, can stop smugglers or terrorists, why not? Its always a balance between civil liberties and security, but we voluntarily abrogate certain of those liberties while crossing national borders. Control of borders is a right of nations and specified in International Law.

Some on Flyertalk assume that because some security measures are foolish or infringe on our liberties unnecessarily, that all are improper or undesirable. This seems counter-intuitive.

Every country has a right to control its borders. However, I think that the US is "controlling" its borders in a manner that is most un-American and causes unnecessary harassment. Check the passport, ask a question or two and be done with it. Forcing people to apply for visas, taking pictures/fingerprints as if they are criminals, lengthy questioning/searches are all examples of unwelcoming and unnecessary harassment. To me, it's not worth catching a small number of "criminals" (usually people who overstay their visas or some similar offense) to harass and inconvenience all those who wish to visit my country.

The US is the only country I know of that requires full-fledged entry visas for people just transiting without leaving the airport. Completely inane and counterproductive. Far more than a "few simple questions at entry".

Did you have to travel to the Dutch Embassy in your home land and apply for a visa, wait a day, or two, pay a few hundred dollars for this? I didn't think so. Last time I transited Amsterdam I just showed my passport, went to the transit hall and that was it. Now compare that to a "transit" through a US aiport and you see why some posters are so upset with the US rules.

I am all for the United States protecting their borders, by whatever means they see fit. However, I am not planning to enter the country for the time being, just transiting as many airlines prefer to land their planes there rather than taking a lenghty route to avoid specifically landing.

If I were to visit the United States, I would balance the expectation of my guest country against the benefit of visiting. I have no problem with China asking why I want to enter their country, when I intend to go there. It's legitimate.

However, I wasn't planning to enter the US, just transiting, and I asked if the program that allowed hassle-free transit was still in effect. Now I am balancing the expectation of the US (taking snapshots and fingerprinting me, among many things...) against the benefit of gaining less miles with JAL.

Don't you think the choice is easier to do ?


Yes we do. However, fingerprinting everyone isn't "a few simple questions". I find this rather offensive, and no, I would not ask my government to do the same unto Americans, because I firmly believe that we shouldn't discriminate against foreigners (especially when they are honouring us by visiting our country (and spending money to boot)) based on the policy of their mother country.

This:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...75#post2949575

is hardly "a few simple questions" and they were not delivered in a manner that could be considered polite and respectful.

Goons and Thuggery!

As a United States citizen (born & raised here) I strongly suggest you avoid transit via the United States. I never thought I would say this to any one, but our country is "sick" right now for a lack of better words.

Your PNR details will be transmitted to the Dept of Homeland Security, which operates the US Customs and Border protection. While you are from a visa-waiver country and would appear to be low-risk, you must still enter the United States to transfer aircraft.

A few US airports do have "sterile" Intl transit facilities, but they are no longer being used thanks to our administration. Most US airports, other than a the small handful, do not have transit facilities such as what you will find at many airports worldwide, such as Amsterdam Schiphol or Tokoyo Narita. Sadly, the few transit facilities in the US have gone to complete waste. Once we get over this "paranoia" in the US, it would be nice if they would build transit facilities when renovating/expanding/building new airports in the US.

It is quite possible you may be able to enter the US and clear with minimal problems, but it's also possible you may encounter problems, long lines, along with harsh, rude agents with no respect for your privacy. There are many great agents and there are some bad ones, but with the current direction of US policy (i.e. visa-waiver visitors & transit pax will get photo'd and fingerprinted soon), I suggest you avoid the US for now. If you do elect to go via LAX and the alert level is up or the agents take interest in your flight, you may have additional hassle to deal with.

I believe YVR has a sterile transit hall, which if true, would be your best bet. This way you can transit Canada and avoid immigrations until you arrive in Mexico. However, I suggest you verify the sterile transit first.

It's a sad day, when I, as a US citizen who is proud of what our country is supposed to stand for suggests to another they avoid the US. When our country heals, I'd be more than happy to say yes, go via LAX; but until then, YVR or another airport which will allow you to stay in Intl transit is your best bet.

I don't know what other routings you have available short of Vancouver, Canada (YVR), but explore them.

Last but not least, I often see Canadian's transiting the US to return home during my travels. I've talked with a few and have been told they often get secondary and intensive questioning from time to time. Last time I got hit with a secondary at DTW, it seemed most of the other pax were Canadians either in-transit, or Canadians flying into DTW and driving home. I spoke with one Canadian individual who explained to me that despite dealing with US Customs, he often uses transits the US because of the route networks & frequencies offered here which AC (the primary Canadian carrier) cannot provide.

Take your $$$ and transit a country which values your privacy & dignity; provide them with airport taxes & revenue - perhaps one day the US will get the point.

Best of luck,

SDF_Traveler

P.S. Flying into Canada, you should not have to deal with any of the silly TSA mandates which are in place on many US bound flights. i.e. no congregating anywhere in the aircraft, especially around the galley and lavs; no lines for the lavs (lines = congregating). This is typically announced on most flights I take to/from US. Actual enforcement varies, but I find on the flights TO the US, it's enforced a bit more. YMMV with this one - while the pilot makes the order/announcement, many flight crews seem to take it with a grain of salt.