Artfully concealed weapons are found - and missed - everyday in every junior high school in urban America. So what?

We've been 'round and 'round about "persons found to be related to terrorist" groups before. This phrase in the mouth of the government means nothing. Witness the thousands released from Iraqi prisons in the past few weeks after being held for over a year, witness the American lawyer summarily charged and defamed in Seattle to the amusement and chagrin of the Spanish police ....

Show me the both of the things you list above together an "artfully concealed weapon on the body of a terrorist fully intent on taking over or destroying a plane" then there is something to talk about.

Otherwise, pleasse keep your tired boogey men.

Teacher49,
Now that Memorial Day is upon us, would you have sacrificed your personal convenience for a greater good by rationing for the wartime effort? Or would you have written the entire effort off as "window dressing?"

Clearly we won't come to any agreement on TSA screening procedures. Too bad you responded emotionally to one point and missed the entire gist of my post. As I mentioned, I agree that TSA methods can and should be improved. They should be oriented more towards managing a risk instead of avoiding it completely. However, until a better system is proposed, tested and implemented, it's the best one we have at the moment. Balancing prudent security with respect for individual freedom and dignity will always be a difficult challenge because someone will ALWAYS perceive that their individual freedom is being infringed upon.

I enjoyed the discussion and the banter on this topic. However, this horse is dead, so we ought to stop kicking it. I give you the last word.

No, I'll just say "so what?"

I suspect that the most artfully concealed weapon by far is the martial artist. Do you have any pictures of them?

I answered a question posted so someone wanted to know what.

Not really, most martial artist know to put their items in checked baggage.
We have pictures but I can't post them due to SSI (not losing my job).

^ Golf Clap ^

Beating a dead horse are hobbies for some here. :)

Yeah, it's Memorial Day weekend. Let's just wrap ourselves in the flag and hope the discussion goes away.

Harassing people by deshoeing them does nothing for security, and the TSA couldn't spell risk management on a good day, let alone understand whay risk management means and has absolutely no clue about probability theory and statistics.

I hope any TSA shoe fetishist employee who continues to harass people in this disgusting a disgraceful manner gets an earful each and every time it happens.

As NWH says, "F*CK The Security Guards!"

Their bare hands and feet?! :( They check their bare hands and feet in their baggage? That's gruesome, but I see your point, how else can you make sure that they can't kill someone on a flight.

Only now do I appreciate just how serious this security business is.

It has been said here again and again, the screeners are doing their jobs. As usual, you choose to blame the front line with your childish name calling. The screeners are following policy and procedures just like anyone else in any other job.

Call, email, harass your congressman and the administration of DHS and TSA but stay off the backs of the screeners!!! :mad:

Very generous, I am sure.

I read your post. We do agree that the TSA procedures need a throughout examination.

However, I go one step further ... the very assumptions on which the screening process is based need serious re-evaluation. Tinkering with a system which is founded on superstition, fear and window- dressing will make no real difference.

I do not bother front line people. I comply with and am courteous to those who do their jobs with civility toward me.

However, when the issues which are the basis for the way we approach the whole issue of screening - much less security - come up, I will raise my voice.

As far as you questioning my willingness to sacrifice. This question ... the very ideas of patriotism, service to country, sacrifice, etc. etc. ... are completely misplaced in this discussion. They have nothing to do with my rights and my duty as a member of a democracy to shout, "the Emperor has no clothes" when we are fed malarkey. As a TSA employee you have no more right to "wrap yourself in the flag" than I, as a citizen, have. In fact, you know nothing about me or what I contribute to my community and to my country.

Your comments and questions are presumptuous and insulting. Remember that loudly declared patriotism is the last refuge not only of scoundrels, but of people who have nothing cogent to offer in a discussion.

I agree that there are people who "beat dead horses." I experienced it just today as I passed through screening to fly to work. As long as the dead horse of non-sensical screening is imposed upon me, it is not a dead horse to protest it.

With best wishes,

Teacher49

You mean like the people calling all TSA employee shoe fetishists?

It's quite possible that they consider the release of such images to be a security issue, and perhaps it's wise to be vague. I'm more than a wee bit frustrated every time I see my hometown newspaper essentially spell out how to manufacture methamphetamine every time there's a local bust - and would probably react in similar fasion if incendiary devices were put on display for all to inspect and potentially copy.

I agree for the most part. Some elements do *appear to be* unnecessary, and some elements probably *are* unnecessary to an extent. And yes there are holes and there always will be - it's simply impossible to create a system that is 100% secure, there are just toooooo many variables.

But the powers that be are really in a tough spot. After 9/11, everyone was howling (and appropriately so) because we'd grown complacent about security. Most issues were given only cursory attention...day to day duties were done by rote without much thought. And oh how it ever bit us in the ....

So now, the powers that be are trying to remain dilligent and proactive. That diligence is tough - we're all letting our guards down again, becoming complacent and annoyed again. Soon as we do, it will happen again. You may not understand WHY certain specific security measures are in place, but most of them do exist for a specific reason. I know some get antsy because we have not caught a terrorist red-handed with a shoe bomb or some such thing - but you have to keep in mind that the measures are intended to *prevent* attempts at a security breach as much as they're intended to catch them when they happen. How's the old adage go? Prevention is 90% of the cure or some such thing?

As it is, I spend a great deal of my personal and professional time on commercial aircraft. The threat may be slim, relatively speaking, that we face another 9/11-esque attack. But the risk is still there. The chance of having a serious inflight mechanical difficulty may be slim to none, but certainly all of us would raise a ruckus if we started seriously skimping on preventative maintenance measures. Similarly, skimping on security measures in an imperfect and ever-changing system makes no sense either.

I do get annoyed too. I don't enjoy standing on cold dirty tile floors, waiting for my shoes to be cleared. Especially when I'm in uniform, wearing my wings, having cleared extensive background checks. I'm there to protect all of you, and yet I still have to endure the wand and the bag checks. But if taking my shoes off every day in public keeps another Richard Reid from loading his with explosive, then I'll do it.

If we stop looking there and elsewhere, it becomes another hole...another avenue by which some idiot thinks he can slip through.

Likewise, with this attitude we will continue to grow and grow and grow more impatient, more complacent, less tolerant, and less vigilant. Reopening the flaws that existed pre-9/11 will not fill the gaps that still exist.

Wasn't me who said that.

I hope you keep your "suspects" under better observation than that on the job or the "evil doer" may slip by while you are blaming the wrong person.

more IED stuff
 

The target on 9/11 was not airplanes or air travelers. The targets were enormous office buildings. There are myriad ways to target office buildings without using airplanes. Why isn't the hysteria focused on protecting office buildings? Why aren't we charging people a $10 security fee to drive large trucks past office buildings? The charade of checkpoint screening isn't a hassle that helps anyone; it's an enormously expensive boondoggle.

With all due respect, sir, if Richard Reid had been the "Underwear Bomber" would you have made the same statement -- replacing shoes with underwear???

My perspective is that the TSA is the LAST line of defense. But, it's very visible and "sexy" to public affairs types, so it continues to exist. To make a comparison, in warfare, one of the most visible and "sexiest" forms of combat is the Dogfight. But, any planner will tell you that the least cost-effective and efficient way of gaining air superiority is air-to-air combat. For example, it's much more efficient to drop a few iron bombs on a runway or hanger BEFORE the enemy airplanes get into the air.

Put another way, the TSA has become so institutionalized as to be completely ineffective. I equate them to the old Soviet Politburo. We were taught in Air War College that the primary purpose of the Politburo was to perpetuate the Politburo.

I humbly submit that the primary purpose of the TSA is to perpetuate the TSA.