Know your rights at the security checkpoint..
 

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=25974

The screener ARE not supposed to ask everyone to remove their shoes!!!!

I wish we knew the source of these rules. It would be nice if we had a publication written by the TSA with these rules.

The problem, of course, is that the TSA's own rules don't apply to the TSA. You could present a notarized letter from Loy and the screener would say, "That's not how we do things here."

Just part of the general lawlessness of the TSA.

http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?theme=1

Mailing list to be updated on future TSA policy and procedure changes.

"Screener Rules" if you will notice was written Jan 9, 2002. It is so outdated and misleading that it it laughable. Please go to TSAwebsite for the current information. Most of what is written is either flat wrong or is so skewed that it is meaningless.

The new and improved SOP in going into effect across the country right now. Local policy can no longer be done. As far as shoes the new SOP lets us profile shoes. So yes the screener can ask you to take them off. Once you submit your bags for inspection or yourself you give up your 4th admen. rights for search

If it lets you profile shoes, I'd hardly call it improved.


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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

I don't think so.. if you don't like how a search is going, you have to right to call it off whenever you want to. You just don't get to fly.

The 4th doesn't apply because this is a voluntary search.

TSA Web Site, Press Release "TSA, Homeland Security Move to Make Shoe Screening Policy Consistent for Travelers" dated July 10, 2003 which states "Screeners have been given explicit guidance on which shoes require X-ray screening. Loy said screeners are being instructed to encourage passengers to remove their shoes and submit them for X-ray examination. Passengers will not be required to take off their shoes before going through metal detectors , but should understand that their chances of being selected for a more thorough, secondary screening will be lower if they do. In most airports, TSA has found checkpoint lines move faster if people remove their shoes for screening.
http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?co...0005198003cc08

The article is over two years old.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by whirledtraveler:
[B] I don't think so.. if you don't like how a search is going, you have to right to call it off whenever you want to. You just don't get to fly.

The 4th doesn't apply because this is a voluntary search.

Once you or your items cross into the "sterile area", a search cannot be called off... If you attempt to discontinue any search, a LEO will be called and a PARIS report will probably be completed... Not a smart idea to do...

[quote]<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by whatsinyourbag:
[b]How is it voluntary? I am required to do it to get where I'm going.

It is essentially the trick that makes this warrantless search legal at all. In general, the gov't needs a warrant to search you. That's the 4th amendment. When you are searched by the TSA, technically you are voluntarily being searched. You have the choice not to fly. There are other ways of getting any place else you want to go, it's just a shame they aren't practical.




[This message has been edited by whirledtraveler (edited Mar 04, 2004).]

Baloney, its my understanding that it is part of the law of consent that you can withdraw your consent at any time. Now, the TSA may be playing fast and loose with the law, trying to expand its power. We might have to see a test case or two to see if it is straightened out.

Personally, I'd like to see an arrest for refusal to consent to search. It'll make things appear as they really are.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by whirledtraveler:
[B] Baloney, its my understanding that it is part of the law of consent that you can withdraw your consent at any time. Now, the TSA may be playing fast and loose with the law, trying to expand its power. We might have to see a test case or two to see if it is straightened out.

Personally, I'd like to see an arrest for refusal to consent to search. It'll make things appear as they really are.


Well, obviously your understanding is incorrect... You cannot just get up and walk away (think about it, you would be in the sterile area... duh...). I did not say you would be arrested, I said a report would be generated (and that would probably help you get on the LIST).

I think by "away" the posters mean "away from the checkpoint toward the outer door of the airport." Certainly that would be allowed.

Where does the "sterile area" begin anyway? It can't be the airside of the WTMD, because people go there who aren't yet secondaried. Is it the last TSA/LEO "watcher" booth before you head to the gates? It seems most/all airports have those, IIRC.

And what's a "PARIS" report?

It doesn't have an exit in your airport? How do the arriving passengers get out? http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/rolleyes.gif

Seriously, if this is the level of critical thinking you all apply.. boy I feel real safe.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by studentff:
[B] I think by "away" the posters mean "away from the checkpoint toward the outer door of the airport." Certainly that would be allowed.

Where does the "sterile area" begin anyway? It can't be the airside of the WTMD, because people go there who aren't yet secondaried. Is it the last TSA/LEO "watcher" booth before you head to the gates? It seems most/all airports have those, IIRC.

Sterile area is on the airside of the WTMD...
If you notice even when not cleared and brought into the sterile area you are under TSA control so that is how you can gain access without being screened.

The PARIS report is an Federal Govt report much like the LEO incident report...

Gee... lets see... Yes airports DO have an exit, that is NOT what I said...

My comment was that you cannot get up out of the wanding pit area and just walk away without completing screening... An incident like that would subject you to a charge of "interferring with screening"...

What was the "critical thinking" you are speaking of anyway?

And by the way, it takes a lot of different kind of thinking to deal with the MORONS that we are dealing with...

What exactly would make you feel safer????

Obviously you don't want you, your family or your friends to be safe while traveling...

Enough said... Now let me role my eyes at you! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/rolleyes.gif

Secure Area= Area between WTMD and the end of the CP

Sterile Area= Area beyond the CP

UnSecure Area= Before WTMD

And how would a passenger getting up and leaving with his/her belongings and leaving through the exit= "interferring with screening"?

They have every right to refuse screening at any point during the search. But they have to talk to a officer if they do so. If they just get up and leave the checkpoint through the exit, LEO's have to be notified but thats about all we can do as TSA.

Let me let you in a little secret. I never feel safe. Neither should you. The world is a dangerous place. Always has been, always will be. Anyone who "feels safe" because of what the TSA is doing obviously isn't a very thoughtful person. It is like "feeling safe" in an airplane because you wear a seatbelt. You prevent one thing but an incredible number of other things are possible.

This doesn't mean that I sit around worrying about air safety. I don't. What would be the point? The best thing to do is realize that you're mortal and appreciate each day that you're alive. The chances of being killed in a car crash are higher than the chances of dying in a terrorist incident. Realize that you can't make the world safe and appreciate the time that you have.

But, that's me. It's hard to ask the public as a whole to be less squeamish about their mortality. If I was to give you advice on what you can do to make people "feel safer", I'd say do more of the same. Smile at people. Wear spiffy uniforms that make you look official. Look diligent when you search things. 90% of people won't think about how many other things aren't being done to make things safer, they'll just feel safer. It's okay I guess, but aside from irritating the 10% of us who know we're never safe it's a little sad. I'd like to expect more of the public, really. I surely expect more from you if you work in airport security. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

This is exactly how I feel when I interact with quite a few TSA Screeners.

REAL security, not the window dressing that Comrades Daschle and Gephardt forced upon this country.

I would LOVE to be safe while flying. When exactly is the TSA going to start making flying safe?

I would prefer to ROLL my eyes.

http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...m/rolleyes.gif

Somewhat correct...

Secure area is so close to the sterile area, that it isn't funny...

As far as getting up and walking out of the "secured area" unscreened, well that is just NOT happening. True TSA cannot physically touch a person, but you can BET you will have many TSA Agents around you to assure that the sterile or secure area is NOT compromised, and then many LEO's on the way...

If you leave the secure area and enter the sterile area, you should have a screener follow you, but not block your path. If the screener can keep a eye on you at all times, they may not empty the concourse.

If you leave the secure area through the exit, you really shouldn't have any TSA officals following you, since your not a threat. And a lot of TSA screeners around someone is just asking for trouble.

Not having a TSA or several TSA Agents around you if you leave the secured area unscreened to go to an exit maybe several hundred feet away is called a "BREACH"... No one said to block a path or stop a person, it was stated to have them follow you to maintain security... And it would be the passenger asking for trouble not TSA... [Guess that is why we have been breach free on my shift in my terminal...]

We sure need some reality checks here.

1 - Can you walk away from the screening area? Yup. People do it often and it usually results in an evacuation of the terminal because the TSA can not find you.

2 - Can you stop the search and walk away? Probably, but how many have done it. These are people that WANT to get on their plane, that is why they are here.

3 - Does ANY of this crapola make us safer? Not by much. It has nothing to do with stopping terrorists, only idiots that might try to carry a bomb or gun onboard. Of course it does not do that well as many reports have indicated.

4 - The TSA will also give you advance notice of a more thorough screening though. It has the airlines print SSSS on your boarding pass to let you know you will get extra screening. Duh! Is this about the dumbest thing in America today or what?

So yell "BREACH" then. But if you can't watch someone or even follow someone to make sure they leave through the exit, I consider that sad. And again, how is someone leaving the checkpoint thru the exit a breach?

I'm sorry, but this is the BS I'm getting completely tired of. People act before they think. If a guy was in the wanding area with me and just decided, screw this and decided to get up and leave. I would follow him down to his airline if he didn't exit or I would watch him to make sure he left thru the exit.

If he did leave the secure area and enter the sterile area, I would follow and we he got to a place where he could stop, I would talk to one of my friends at the airlines to call my CP and ask for a Supervisor down to that gate.

See, I've just saved a Terminal evac. BTW, my CP has been breach free since TSA took over to, not exaclty a big thing.

Even if said person leaves through the exit you will still want to maintain observation of him and notify the Screening Managers and the LEOs because they are going to want to talk to this person and find out why he walked out in the middle of being screened. Just because the person leaves through the exit doesn't mean he is still not a potentional threat to the terminal.

Omascreener,

That I can understand. But the fact that whatinyourbag would call a breach means you bring all checkpoint operations to a stop because someone left through a exit. But anyone thats beyond the checkpoint in the unsecure area is a potentional threat.

But I honestly still have a problem with the whole thing. Why call something volutary, when the second you refuse screening you have to be questioned. At this point, with all the incidents of mistreatment and such by screeners I can understand someone refusing to do screening.

You watch. People are going to try to make us forget that this is voluntary. The signs about "consent to search" will go down, the process will become more involved and everyone will kind of "forget." That's how it will all play out.

That is exactly what I said, TSA would be following him/her... And why is it a big deal to leave the wanding pit and enter the STERILE area to go to the exit... That is a no-brainer!

I did NOT say I would call a breech... I said if they entered the sterile area and nothing was done, that is called a breech...

You MUST pass thru a sterile area to reach an exit, so they MUST be followed and then questioned by a LEO...

Then your checkpoint is set up different, you don't have to go through the sterile area to get to the exit at my airport.

But if someone leaves through the exit, why follow him/her? They have the right to refuse screening at any point which was told to us and why they refuse is no ones business, which my airport learnt about a year ago.

At my checkpoint you must go thur the sterile area to get to the exit...

And yes, we will follow them to the exit... And yes, it is someones business if you refuse screening after entering the secured or sterile area... A LEO will want to talk to you. Don't know why your airport thinks it isn't important...

EXACTLY what law is broken when screening is refused?

Who knows, I just know what the policy/regulation is... Maybe they view that person as a threat that decided to wait (everyone knows when they cross over they are subject to search, so why change your mind after crossing over, just DON'T come into the checkpoint...)

People want LOTS of things! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttr...orum/smile.gif

If a law-enforcement officer wants to speak with me, he will get nothing more than my name. If he wants to arrest me, he better have probable cause, and leaving screening clearly does not qualify.

Bruce

I don't feel it's important. If I ever stated this stuff to management I would proably lose my job on the spot. Instead I make little comments here and there on how I can see stuff being improved. Of course they never listen.

They also know they have every right to refuse it. But of course TSA fails to mention that if you refuse, you will be questioned. Instead they state over and over again that you can refuse but you won't be able to fly.

Reasons to refuse:
1) Screener Attitude
2) Don't feel you did anything to warrent said screening
3) Screener touching you in what you feel is in the wrong matter.
4) You realize you forgot something before entering the checkpoint.
5) The flight your trying to make closes it gate because the passenger was late as it was.

Yes, it is regulation. Yes, I understand I have to do it, and I would (Just like the Stupid shoe policy) but I still have the right to disagree with it and state that.

Refusing screening and walking away can be seen as suspicous, warrenting a LEO to investigate. If there is a problem with the screening (inappropriate comments and/or touching) then request the screener to stop and get a supervisor.

We're at war so remember: name, rank, and social security number.

It's the Geneva Convention, I think.