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-   -   Legality of Reverse Screening (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/305268-legality-reverse-screening.html)

RedSnapper May 10, 2014 3:52 am


Originally Posted by whirledtraveler (Post 2687440)
What's the legal basis for reverse screening on domestic flights?

I understand the argument that screening is voluntary and the TSA can deny you boarding if you refuse it, but what can they do if you refuse a reverse screen? You've already arrived and I don't think they have any legal ability to hold you without arresting you.

Sorry, I'm very late to this thread. In short, no they can't legally hold you and no, they can't legally arrest you, absent cause to believe that you have committed a crime. I am not aware of any law that makes it a crime to refuse an unwarranted search, though if anyone knows of one, please post the citation.

RedSnapper May 10, 2014 4:00 am


Originally Posted by PresRDC (Post 2687441)
Interesting question.

My guess is that TSA cannot detain you, but that the FBI or the local polcie can. I am not sure who conducts these reverse screenings, but I would guess that federal law enforcement is involved.

Refusing to submit to a search could be grounds for detention in that it arouses the suspicion of the officers doing the search. If that alone is enough grounds for an arrest, then the police can do a full search of your person and possesstions as a search incident to arrest.

If one were arrested pursuant to failure to waive his 4th amendment rights and consent to a search, what would be the charge? True, officers don't like it when people fail to waive their rights, they'd rather everyone consent to searches, everyone not call their lawyers, everyone voluntarily confess to crimes, et cetera. Asserting your rights might be "suspicious", but is it "reasonable suspicion"? How exactly can that legally be used against you?

RedSnapper May 10, 2014 4:09 am


Originally Posted by whirledtraveler (Post 2687447)
Anyone refuse to volunteer for screening?

I have, twice, but only on international arrivals. One thing I must note is that I was not in a sterile area when I refused. I was, due to the unfortunate positioning of the checkpoint, stuck in an area where the only exit was through the checkpoint, which I declined to go through and requested to leave to the street. I'm not sure how different this would have been had I already been inside a sterile area.

RedSnapper May 10, 2014 4:17 am


Originally Posted by Mats (Post 2687452)
...
This would include my pet peeve: post-arrival screening of international passengers so that they can make it through the secured area to the baggage claim. This occurs in Atlanta, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Seattle, and some others.
...

In addition to Seattle previously noted, I believe this has been fixed in Atlanta with the opening of the new international wing of the terminal. For the list of airports where it is still an issue we should also include Charlotte, Memphis, and Pittsburgh, as far as I know. Please correct this list if you know of any additions/subtractions, as my information is somewhat dated.

AllieKat May 10, 2014 10:50 pm


Originally Posted by RedSnapper (Post 22841564)
If one were arrested pursuant to failure to waive his 4th amendment rights and consent to a search, what would be the charge? True, officers don't like it when people fail to waive their rights, they'd rather everyone consent to searches, everyone not call their lawyers, everyone voluntarily confess to crimes, et cetera. Asserting your rights might be "suspicious", but is it "reasonable suspicion"? How exactly can that legally be used against you?

No, it's absolutely NOT reasonable suspicion. If it was, the fourth amendment would be pointless.

RandomNobody May 11, 2014 1:04 am

In 9th Circuit land, US v. Fuentes. "Mere refusal to consent to a stop or search does not give rise to reasonable suspicion or probable cause."

cbn42 May 11, 2014 1:48 am


Originally Posted by RedSnapper (Post 22841578)
I was, due to the unfortunate positioning of the checkpoint, stuck in an area where the only exit was through the checkpoint, which I declined to go through and requested to leave to the street. I'm not sure how different this would have been had I already been inside a sterile area.

If you had already been inside a sterile area, why would you have to be screened?

I'm not sure I understand what this thread is about. Can anyone explain this "reverse screening" concept? At first I thought it referred to certain international terminals where you have to go through security in order to exit the airport after arrival, but I'm not sure.

roymustang May 11, 2014 7:59 pm


Originally Posted by RedSnapper (Post 22841593)
In addition to Seattle previously noted, I believe this has been fixed in Atlanta with the opening of the new international wing of the terminal. For the list of airports where it is still an issue we should also include Charlotte, Memphis, and Pittsburgh, as far as I know. Please correct this list if you know of any additions/subtractions, as my information is somewhat dated.

Charlotte has resolved this issue now as well, the drill is pretty much the same as any other airport now (land, immigrations/customs, re-check luggage/re-clear security or depart airport, depending on final destination)

RedSnapper Jan 15, 2015 1:13 pm


Originally Posted by roymustang (Post 22848659)
Charlotte has resolved this issue now as well, the drill is pretty much the same as any other airport now (land, immigrations/customs, re-check luggage/re-clear security or depart airport, depending on final destination)

So with the layout at Charlotte apparently having been fixed, it joins Atlanta and Seattle on the list of airports which formerly re-screened non-connecting international arrivals, but now allow them to depart unhindered.

This leaves the list of "problem layouts" at: Cleveland, Cincinnati, Memphis and Pittsburgh. Please correct me if I am wrong, this may be out of date.

The reason that I'm posting again is I've noticed the recent renovations at Pittsburgh and the "Central Core" of the airside part of the terminal is currently gutted down to the concrete. Does anyone have any information about whether the security checkpoint would be moved there? This seems like the perfect time to do it, and doing so would solve the "re-screening departing international travelers" problem, since this would then allow the customs area to exit into a non-sterile area, as is the case in most airports.

Does anybody have any info if this is in the works at PIT?


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