As was pointed out previously, you can probably hide plastic explosive material in your jockey shorts' elastic waistband. Do we need to put our tighty-whities through the scanner, too?

Call it whining, or call it reasoned discussion. But there does need to be more thought given to the whole layout of these checks. You can literally feel the tension and stress created by the cattle car organization. Even as a seasoned traveller, trying to arrange and then rearrange all the tech stuff, coats, et al in the tight spaces before and after is chaotic at best. And with the new policies about cameras and phones and MP3 players...give us some room to disassemble and re-assemble! Good grief, have we no feng shui experts we can call in? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Underwear, body cavities, molded pseudo-flesh, et. al. are all places where a bomb can be hidden; why not check there?

I will not let some fascist group like the TSA dictate how I will travel. I have made my choice: I will continue to travel BY AIR and I will continue to oppose the stupidity of the TSA.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Passed through Terminal B security in PHL this afternoon. Electronics out, laptop in its own bin, suitcase flat, etc., etc., and then it was "Shoes off, please!" Remembering this thread (but not having remembered that Terminal C is supposed to be the easier screen) I asked "Why?"

The answer: "If the heel is more than an inch thick, you have to take off your shoes, otherwise it's a secondary screening."

Folks, this has drifted to the point where I'm going to place it in a more appropriate forum. I'm moving it to the "Travel Safety/Security" forum in FT Travel.

/ClueByFour, one of your friendly US moderators.

[This message has been edited by ClueByFour (edited 08-07-2003).]

I'm backing the passengers on this one. I work for TSA. Just got my first year in. And I agree completely that this shoe "policy" is BS. At GSO, we suggest removal of shoes, but only so you don't set off the walk through and have to be hand-wanded. We get more compliments than any other airport I have been to. When I flew to FLL last week, I left GSO to ATL then ATL to FLL, FLL wasn't too bad after I shoed my TSA ID, but in ATL I had to get nasty with a supervisor and a screening manager. We constantly ask our employees for suggestions on how to make the process quicker. I even take suggestions from this board. The problem with the incosistancy is that at every airport the FSD (Federal Security Director), can make their own local TSA policy to support their individual needs. This needs to be done away with. It should be the same policies at every airport with no changes allowed. The SSSS system should be done away with. Reason being, it's a system that can easily be bypassed with trial and error. We should train our employees better at recognition of flight risks and instead of training them to look for entire explosive devices, look for individual pieces.

Currently I work in the baggage screening area. I started last august in the checkpoint, then transfered over. Our biggest complaint is that we don't have the big Xray machines for baggage and we have to ETD every bag. Trust me...we do not enjoy any part of it. But we put up with it until we can get those CTX machines in....but I won't hold my breathe. Occasionally we get people that like to push our buttons, and yes we deal with them accordingly. At GSO I am known for my smart @ss attitude and sharp tongue. Not saying that I harass everyone but when people give me a hard time, I return the favor. But I am a fair person too. When I ask "How are you doing", and get the respone "Be better if you weren't here", needless to say, I have fun. But when people are nice to me I am nice back.

I know I got a little off topic but I wanted to try to get it across that not all of us are bad. Yes we have some ignorant people at the top and more ignorant people supporting them.

To Spiff's drop em and spread em quote. I actually sent a letter up the chain about a suggestion and included that. I asked if someone decided to put explosives up their @ss would we be strip searching everyone that didn't remove their clothing? I haven't received a letter back yet. But I'm sure it'll at least give me a chance to speak to some uppers because of my attitude towards our job. My 3 cents. Hope it helps.

Spiff: SO is your solution since we cant check every part of your body, we wont check you at all ? If you continue to travel by air also make sure you continue to whine about it. You make such a strong case, it is a wonder why they aren't following your worldly and well thought out ideas. Go hug a tree maybe you will feel better.

Once again, your non-sequitur logic is puzzling. I hate stupid "security" so I must be a tree-hugger. Hmmm.. Well, I guess based on the other conclusions you've managed to draw, that's about par for the course for you. It would be easy to simply pat each traveler down in the crotch area to make sure there are no weapons there. We don't do that becuase it's unreasonable to feel up people in the name of "security" when there's such a small chance of detecting something. Strip searching people is equally insane. Where does it stop? Shoes, shirts, pants, undies, ....?

If it makes your pretty little self feel better, you go right ahead and take off your shoes to show what a good, non-threatening boy you are. I, however, will continue to oppose this stupidity.

There should be no searches without probable cause and wanting to travel via air is not probable cause.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited 08-08-2003).]

So if you could do Sept 11 all over again, you wouldnt have the terrorist searched ? There certainly wasnt probably cause to frisk 19 Arab men who boarded planes. And by the way, you are not opposing the security procedures you are only whining about them. ( my original point ) You do exactly as instructed by TSA if they tell you to jump you do it. This tough rhetoric is only in theory, you are a fraud and a bag of hot air. If you had any principles at all, you would refuse to be screened, but instead you conform like a lemming in the herd. ( over the cliff you go )

Originally posted by Ken in Phx:

So if you could do Sept 11 all over again, you wouldnt have the terrorist searched ?

No. Not without probable cause. Would you, in hindsight, seek to abridge every criminal's civil liberties for the purpose of catching them? Would you have kicked down Timothy McVeigh's door to his home without a warrant or probable cause? Shall we discard the Bill of Rights just because it gets in the way of fighting crime?

And by the way, you are not opposing the security procedures you are only whining about them. ( my original point ) You do exactly as instructed by TSA if they tell you to jump you do it.

The hell I do. I have corrected the TSA employees on some of their stupidity, summoning supervisors when necessary. I have ignored their instructions on occasion and have stood up for my civil liberties every time they have been trampled.

This tough rhetoric is only in theory, you are a fraud and a bag of hot air. If you had any principles at all, you would refuse to be screened, but instead you conform like a lemming in the herd. ( over the cliff you go )

I am forced to comply if I want to travel and I do need to travel by plane by for my job and for pleasure. That does not mean I roll over for the TSA, nor does it mean I do not contact the TSA hotline, the airline representatives, and my elected representatives.

You, on the other hand, are a true coward. You mindlessly obey every stupid directive without bothering to think for yourself whether it's right or wrong. You are incapable of thinking for yourself and you scorn others who can and do so. You're the kind of person who would injure another person just because someone in authority told you to do it. I've no respect for people like you and couldn't care less whether you consider me to be a "fraud" or "full of hot air".

Thank God our Founding Fathers weren't people like you. We'd still be living under English rule.



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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

You do conform because you are a sheep aside from under your breathe mumbling you do nothing to change the situation. You dont have to respect my opinion but it is the truth. Who cares what you do anyway, you are from Kentucky. Is it still a state, I know we just couldnt survive if it werent for Kentucky. LOL

Implying your opinion is fact is laughable.

Also, it seems that you not only have issues with people who think for themselves, but you also have issues with an entire state.

I'd say your credibility and your mental faculties are pretty much on par with the value of Enron stock.

I'm not willing to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person; if you feel you can re-enter this discussion, please let us know.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

We don't need probable cause to search passengers just like Customs doesn't need probable cause to search cars, health inspectors don't need probable cause to search restaurants, FAA inspectors don't need probable cause to search airplanes, etc.

And I find that disgusting.

All that a search of the 9/11 hijackers would have found was box cutters, legal items at the time.



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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Yep, you're right, I was just pointing out that TSA screeners aren't the only ones empowered to do searches/inspections without probable cause. In reality the restrictions placed upon civilian police forces are the exception rather the the norm in respect to other government enforcement and regulatory agencies that are enforcing specialized legislation.