Flying with a checked gun
 

What is Delta's policy towards having checked in guns on airplanes?

Just recently in NYC we saw unlawful prosecutions at the airports for checked in guns, including airline employees with various airlines.

Am eagerly awaiting the passage of HR822 and am a member of the National Rifle Association.

Rifles and Shotguns
Delta will accept firearms and shooting equipment packaged as follows:
One gun case containing rifles or shotguns, plus shooting materials, and tools
One gun case containing handguns, one scope, and tools
One bow and quiver of arrows and maintenance kit enclosed in a case or container of sufficient strength to protect the bow and quiver from accidental damage
An excess baggage fee will apply if checking more than one gun case. Ammunition is limited to 11 lbs. (5 kg).

Shooting equipment
Shooting equipment is accepted as checked baggage only. It must fit within the very specific criteria that we outline below.
Declare to the Delta representative that you are checking a firearm.
Declare the existence of a firearm to security personnel if a security checkpoint is prior to the Delta counter.
All firearms must be declared by the passenger to a Delta representative at the main ticket counter .
Present firearm(s) unloaded and sign a "Firearms Unloaded" declaration.
Firearms must be packed in a locked manufacturer's hard–sided container specifically designed for the firearm, a locked hard–sided gun case, or a locked hard–sided piece of luggage. Handguns may be packed in a locked hard–sided gun case, and then packed inside an unlocked soft–sided piece of luggage. However, a Conditional Acceptance Tag must be used in this case.
Maintain entry permits in your possession for the country or countries of destination or transit.
Ensure small arms ammunition is packed in the manufacturer's original package or securely packed in fiber, wood, plastic or metal boxes and provide separation for cartridges.
If you need to travel with a weapon as checked baggage, you are responsible for knowledge of and compliance with all Federal, State, or Local laws regarding the possession and transportation of firearms. For more information about this regulation you can visit the TSA site.
If you are transporting a firearm to the United Kingdom as checked baggage, a permit from the United Kingdom is specifically required. You must contact the United Kingdom for more information about securing this permit.

Ammunition in excess of 11 lbs. per passenger or that contains potential projectiles is not allowed.

Delta's policy is clearly outlined on the website. At the same time, it doesn't supercede state or federal law, so if you try to check a handgun in a city/state where handguns aren't allowed, you're susceptible to arrest.

Anyone know about bringing empty casings and already shot bullets in checked or carry-on bags?

All the TSA guidelines are for live ammunition.

I don't think attempting to carry on things containing residue of explosive primers or powder is a good plan.

You better make darned sure all the primers are fired off before you check brass, but what are you going to do with "already shot bullets"?

I always thought this was a pretty amusing statement.. Theoretically, all ammunition contains at least one potential projectile..

As others have said, you have to be in compliance with local gun laws at the airport. I've traveled with long guns in checked baggage between relatively rural airports and have never had a problem.

You do want to stay with the TSA until they clear your gun case. They typically will screen it at the "oversize baggage" station. The TSA people I've dealt with have been uniformly nice and helpful, but if they decide they need to open your case, you'll need to be there with your keys.


At your destination, they used to just put them on the baggage belts, but there seems to have been a policy change in the last year or two and your gun will be delivered to the baggage office (or sometimes the oversize baggage belt) and usually require you to actually ask for your item, vs leaving it out.

NYC Gun Transport
 

Following Delta policy exactly does not guarantee you will not be arrested in NYC and charged with a felony which they usually downgrade to a misdemeanor with a high fine ($thousands) and gun confiscation. A lot of tourist get trapped this way in NYC because the will call police to check that the gun is legal in New York.

The reason for all this is that the gun must be licensed in New York. A Tourist checks a gun legally elsewhere and flies to New York, gun is delivered, they conduct there business and goes back to check in. The GA will call the police to check if the gun is legal in New York. If not you go directly to jail. So be prepared to show the gun is registered in New York and carried to the airport legally per New York law. Then be prepared to prove all this to the cop.

I have checked my 9mm and my .357 (on separate occasions) before in my luggage with no problems. Granted, the airports I've done this at are in NC, GA, and FL, which are all firearms-friendly states. At any rate, here's what I've had to do, and what I've done beyond that:

1. Checking in: Declare to the ticket agent that I have a gun in my checked luggage. You have to fill out an orange card certifying that the gun is unloaded, and each agent has asked me to open my luggage to verify that the gun is (a) inside a gun case and (b) the case is locked with a padlock. Once the TA is satisfied, I put the orange card in the same compartment with the gun, zip the luggage back up, and then hand it to the TA as normal. I wait in the area until the converyor belt has taken it behind the magic curtain. Once it's there, I have no idea what the TSA does with it.

1A. Checking in, specific to VLD and TLH: Checked luggage screening at these airports occurs landside, not airside. I wait in the area while TSA rifles through (pun intended) my luggage and verify that my gun gets placed back in the luggage securely, the luggage is zipped up, then taken to the appropriate next destination as if there were no gun present.

2. For the padlock, I use a non-TSA-certified, old-school, keyed Master lock.

3. Baggage claim: it's been delivered to the baggage claim belt as if there is nothing out of the ordinary. I have not had to go to a special area to retrieve my luggage.

Yes it does... but I travel to competitions all through the USA..and it is incredibly scary to think one might be arrested when legally transporting ones guns from one comp to the next... even New York law allows for such transits!!!!!

Being a non-citizen adds to the concern in my mind....

Travelling through MOST of the USA my experiences match others here who find it quite routine....

It's an old article, so it might not be relevant anymore, but it's from Bruce Schneier, who knows a metric-asston more about security than anyone at the TSA:

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive...ive_camer.html

I regularly fly with guns, as I shoot competitively for a hobby. =)

Delta has been quite good with firearms, same with Frontier, Spirit and US.

FOPA covers you... however...

UNLESS YOU HAVE A NYC CARRY PERMIT.... DO NOT travel through JFK.

Many national champions were arrested. NY Port Authority cops do not care, it is not their job. They will arrest you under orders from bloomberg, and then it will get tossed in court.

It is a gamble.... especially since a nervous check in counter staff will call PANY cops. TSA is not an issue.

I have NEVER been hassled by TSA at any airport, and in most times.... we have good chats about my guns and what I shoot. =)

If you want to discuss, shoot me a pm.

Flying with firearms
 

I saw a few posts on Delta forum of FT on this, but most didn't specifically address or were several years ago, so apologies if this duplicates a prior thread.

Two questions regarding 1) hard-sided 18x15x8" pistol case with pin-type TSA locks and 2) impact on connecting flights.

I've flown with firearms before, always case for rifles/shotguns. I've always had to open the case at the time of check in and go to the baggage office to claim the bag, as I expected. I have always used my own locks in the past, typically 4 to the case. I am now thinking of flying with a hard-sided pistol case (Pelican V300) with 2 TSA pin-type locks (vs cable-style TSA locks.) I am planning on checking the case separately, in part because old threads on FT suggest that case-within-another-bag may make theft less obvious and therefore higher risk, most as far as I can tell where the outer case was locked.

My decision to use TSA locks is based in part on advice by TSA agents was to use TSA locks (once for a flight when I was flying with a shotgun case, the other when I specifically recently sought out TSA agents after arriving on a different flight.) It's only a minor inconvenience to me to wait for the TSA agent to wait at the ticket counter for the return the keys to my locks, but it would be more convenient to be able to skip that step. I have different number combinations on each lock, although if the hole in security is someone having the TSA key, that obviously won't help much. I plan to photograph the pistol(s) ahead of time for a record of what is being transported.

The second question relates to tight connections. I have at times when not checking a firearm I have made flights where the first leg was late, even "rebooked" on the app. I can see how having a checked firearm could work both ways: either hold the second leg of the itinerary so that the CAGPT (Check And Give Protection To) baggage isn't left at the connecting station. Alternatively, that it could work against making a tight connection if they figure normal handling will create the risk of a misconnect and refuse to allow me to continue on my scheduled itinerary. In case anyone knows, I would be less likely to book a tighter connection if the latter is more likely.

Using TSA locks is illegal for securing firearm cases. It shall be a lock only you have a key to. Everybody has keys to TSA locks.

The relevant code for transporting firearms as checked baggage 14 CFR 1540.111(c):

In checked baggage. A passenger may not transport or offer for transport in checked baggage or in baggage carried in an inaccessible cargo hold under § 1562.23 of this chapter:

(1) Any loaded firearm(s).

(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless—

(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally or in writing, before checking the baggage, that the passenger has a firearm in his or her bag and that it is unloaded;

(ii) The firearm is unloaded;

(iii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container; and

(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination.

Also, no marking the outside of the luggage with anything that hints that there's a firearm inside:

18 USC 922 (e) "No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm."

Intuitively it seems correct that it should be locks that only I have keys for, in other words what I've been using all along. Since these cases can be used for other purposes, e.g. camera equipment, it makes sense for TSA pin-type locks to be manufactured to fit this type of case.

I wouldn't have even wondered about using TSA locks except I saw them "paired" with the case on Amazon and two TSA agents specifically stated that a TSA lock is preferred, one even made that point when returning my keys (which they obviously don't possess) the last time I checked a firearm.

Don't listen to TSA agents. They're just trying to make their job easier. They are not giving you good, legal advice.

Change the word "preferred" to "illegal".