I am also an imigrant and I have gone to vacations with three of my friends several times. All three of them are illegal and have the said IL driver's license. Go for it, no problem.

That is a VIPR operation which is completely different from CBP/BP/ICE operations at airports. VIPR operations are when the TSA (BDOs/FAMs) go out somewhere, usually to a train or bus station, with the stated goal of preventing and detrrring terrorism by being random and visible. But that would produce no tangible results since they are extremely unlikely to catch any terrorists, so they bring along the local law and some other federal alphabet soup (DEA/ICE/BP) depending on the operation. The operation then becomes about finding and arresting criminals and unlawfully present aliens with terrorism as as the excuse and BDOs end up looking for 'suspicious' brown people while drug dogs sniff away. In other words, the temptation of running a dragnet under the excuse of (and possibly with the funding for) preventing terrorism is unsurpassable.

Compare this with BP checkpoints set up in airports-- these are unrelated to VIPR. These can work one of two ways: The first way is a BP officer standing behind the TSA TDC looking at the documents presented to the TDC and stopping passengers whose documents indicate that they are potentially aliens and then verifying status-- another variation of this is a BP officer in the same location asking everyone if they are US citizens and verifying the status of those who aren't. The second way is to station a team of BP officers in the jetway of a flight and ask boarding passengers if they are US citizens and verifying the status of those who say they aren't; each way has its pros and cons.

The chances of encountering a BP officer at ORD doing an immigration checkpoint are extremely slim due to allocation of resources; not only is ORD a huge airport with numerous checkpoints and flights, but Chicago is not a common origin for air travel by unlawfully present aliens as compared with other airports. The same cannot be said of FLL. Airports near borders (including maritime borders) are good target airports since those airports yield a steady influx of unlawfully present aliens making the trip North to settle at their final destinations. SJU is probably the most popular airport for these types of checks; other popular ones include LAX, SAN, BUF, PHX, MIA and similar. It is possible for FLL to have this type of check though it is not something I've seen there.

Always a good idea.

Not always an option.

SecureFlight is part of the TSA; it does not run things through the USCIS/CBP database.

Were they checking IDs or just asking citizenship, or both?

Again, note the difference between VIPR and airport BP operations. (There are also plenty of stand-alone BP operations).

Making a false claim of citizenship is a big deal; having a valid DL, perfect English and white skin makes getting caught very unlikely. Nervousness would be the only thing to worry about-- and any BP officer worth his salt knows that IL is one of a few states that doesn't verify status when issuing DLs so additional investigation would be done.

This can be sorted out before or after an "unfortunate incident" in point of fact; sometimes it can only be sorted out after the fact as a practical matter. An alien who entered with inspection is at a signifigant advantage.

Trip to hawaii
 

Hey everyone, i had a question for all of you if you dont mind...
Im planning on taking a trip to hawaii but i am "illegal" no papers no anything all i really have is a "matricula" and i was wondering if it was possible for me to take a plane there safely?

You need identification to board an airplane.. I have no idea what a "matricula" is, but I'm pretty sure that its not an acceptable form of ID for the TSA..

Do you have a passport from your country? That will work.. The TSA won't check your legal status.

Matricula Consular... it's not a recognized ID by the TSA.

If you have your country's passport, you should be ok- it's not their job to check immigration status. If you have a driver's license or other non-driver ID, even better.

My friendly advice is NOT to use a Matricula card. Never use it for TSA. ICE will be called, and that will ruin your trip. In fact, leave that card at home, just in case you are searched.

As another noted, if you have your passport, use that, but if your worried that the Visa may be checked, do you have any credit cards, school identification, work ID? If so use those.

Have fun in Hawaii!

A Matricula Consular Identification, to put bluntly, is an ID that a foreign government gives to its citizens who plan on living in another country illegally, so that they can get basic services, such as utilities, banking accounts, and so on. If the immigrant is living in another country legally, they have no need for this ID, as they will have "official" identifications.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matr%C3%ADcula_Consular

http://www.theamericanresistance.com...a_id_card.html

But what if they want to do the call-in thing?

That is not the type of website I would cite as authority on this (or any other) topic.

Then the individual in question would be questioned by CBP.

As far as the article the poster above mentioned, I totally agree with the quote "Specifically, a state or local government official or employee who provides any benefit or service to such a presenter possesses the criminal intent (mens rea) necessary for a felony indictment under Section 274 of the Immigration and Nationality Act"

No agency should accept that card. People can argue all day long, but there's nothing legal about being illegal.

First, regarding your last comment, neither web-site is an "authority". One, I would argue, is more reliable than the other, but both neither are authorities. But I was in a rush for time, and it provided the information to convey what those identifications are. If you are really interested, you can actually find a web-site from our national Congress discussing that particular card, and I would say that site is an authority. But I did not want to spend the time looking for it, as what I needed was on those 2 sites.

Second, regarding your question, the call-in thing would be tricky for an illegal immigrant and perhaps end with a trip with some ICE agents. I would not suggest it. If someone is here illegally, the more questions they are asked, the more likely they are to get caught in a lie.

If you remember, some time ago at SAT a student was taken away by ICE for trying to use the Matricula Consular Identification to gain entry through the TDC. He was and is currently a student at Harvard (it appeared Harvard knew he was illegal, but accepted him anyway). There was a thread about it here on FT. And nationally there was anger on both so-called sides of the issue. Eventually, our government decided he could stay, since his family brought him here illegally when he was a toddler or infant. But I am sure for this particular man it was a major hassle, even though he prevailed.

Sadly, some state government agencies do accept this card, and some states allow this "identification" to be used to issue legitimate state identifications and drivers licenses (could be wrong here). Not even considering TSA, this is not good, as to get this card in Mexico you do not have to provide any proof of who you claim you are, simply pay a fee.

I agree with you, no agency should accept it, and if a TSA employee recognizes it, the person will be reported to a LEO.

Well I'm sure states no longer accept this Mexican ID card as a basis of getting an American driver's licence or ID card. Mainly due to the REAL ID Act (but they used to in the past, which is just as bad).

Lol, I did some searching on google, have you seen this website? http://americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/...arShamIDs.html

The FAQs are funny.. (and I wouldn't doubt that they're not at least half true)

You may agree with it, and some organization might put it on their website, but that doesn't make it so.

That doesn't make acceptance of the card a crime. The document is issued for legitimate diplomatic reasons.

Very well.

Exactly. Most unlawfully present aliens don't have credit records.

What he was given (Deferred Action) is discretionary indeed and one of the criteria is, in essence, how the case would play in the press.

Do they issue such cards in Mexico? I'm not sure why anyone would get one there.

Yes. Without losing a moment's sleep.

Do you know how many people in the Philippines and India would love to come to the U.S.? The problem is that they can't just walk over the border.

Why do Hispanics from Mexico and Central America receive that benefit?

We have a legal immigration procedure. If you want to immigrate, use it.

Note that if I just walked across the border into Mexico and started working, they would throw me in jail.

Apparently it's a one-way street from Mexico to the U.S.

You clearly do not understand the economics on the border states from illegal immigration.

Absolutely! I worked in the US for many years, and (my company) spent thousands of dollars on attorneys and visa fees, so why do they get to skip that process? And looking at it from the Mexican perspective, like you said, they have even tougher immigration laws which will absolutely throw you in jail if you start working there illegally.

They're not issued for a legitimate diplomatic reason.. The Mexican government isn't issuing them to track their citizens in the event of a major catastrophic event.. The Mexican government is issuing them for the sole purpose of facilitating the illegal activities of its citizens inside the United States.

That's the legitimate diplomatic reason to issue them. (Another would be consular notification in the event of arrest . . . I recall that someone who didn't have the benefit consular notification was put to death recently).

That's how the IDs are used and most probably the motivation for their issuance. But just because the IDs are overwhelmingly used by unlawfully present aliens as a general-purpose indentification card does not make the issuance of the card illegal and does not take away the fact that there is a legitimate diplomatic reason for the issuance of such a card (even though that is not the actual motivation behind the country's issuance of the card).

The notion that accepting the card is a crime is simply false because the cards provide no information as to a holder's legal status in the United States. (They can be issued to legally-present Mexican nationals as well though, I imagine few use them).

I don't particularly like the Matricula Consular because of the way they are used-- and I certainly wouldn't accept it for any purpose-- but that doesn't mean they are illegal for someone else to accept (something that nutty website says).

I don't like it when people inject politics into interpretation of the law.

Lol.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/pract...ml#post9605187 .

If you are "illegal" don't fly in the USA, period.

I'm an accountant, not an attorney, but I would imagine that in the eyes of the law, presenting one of these cards creates the presumption of being illegal (probable cause to investigate your immigration status?)

Logically, legal Mexican residents have no use for the card, as they are eligible for US-issued identification.


Also - if the Mexican government wants these cards to be considered more "secure", and accepted in more places, they should issue them responsibly. First of all, by verifying a person's actual identity, and only issue them to people with provable legal status in the respective country (USA).

As an American (and its basically the same thing here in Canada), you cannot get a driver's licence, health card, passport, etc., without proving who you say you are.

Neither the Canadian or US governments issue such "consular cards" to its citizens living abroad, but they do register citizens abroad who wish that.

Though the quantum of proof is low (basically unverifiable), and no special ID card is issued, they do ask for your immigration status in the country of question, and "illegal" isn't a choice.

I would say it does not give probable cause but cetainly gives reasonable suspicion for authorized officials to investigate status. I wouldn't say it carries any presumptions (as a matter of law) other than that a person is a Mexican national. As a practical matter, most officials encountering such a card assume that the person presenting it is unlawfully present.

Perhaps for consular notification or to obtain services of the consulate.

With respect to the first part, verification of identity, there would be nothing wrong with that. The Mexican government did actually try to make them more "secure" a few years ago, but that was really just a design upgrade and some claim that they were vetting them better (an assurance that I don't really credit).

With respect to the second part, issuing the card only to those who can prove legal presence here, that would partially defeat the legitimate diplomatic purpose of the card: To identify Mexican nationals in the United States who are entitled to Mexican consular services and protection. Because those unlawfully present in the United States are still entitled to consular services and protection, it would make no sense not to issue these cards to such persons.

Right.

If the USA or Canada wanted to issue such documents, they could. They choose not to.

That is the choice of the United States and Canada but not the choice of the Mexican government.

The easiest solution is a Washington State drivers license - no proof of immigrant status is needed. If you have friends or family in WA, just use their address for proof of state residency (you'll need a utility bill in your name).

I understand what your saying - on paper (legally), the cards issued are legitimate. They basically found a loophole in the Vienna Conventions the same way that tax evaders find loopholes to avoid paying taxes.

I'm sure though, that unofficially, both within the Mexican government and the general public, these cards are issued to facilitate their citizen's day-to-day life while living undocumented in the country of question.

Unlawfully present immigrants are entitled to consular services and protection, and nobody is going to deny them that right, but that doesn't require "the issuance of an ID document". A simple registration and acknowledgement from the consulate is sufficient.

They only issue those cards in Mexico, as I understand it, but perhaps their consulate offices issue them as well. As to why someone would get one, it should be obvious. They either live in the US illegally, or plan to do so, and need/want a document to be able to open a bank account, rent an apartment, etc, and then come across the border illegally, as so many thousands do each year.

As of May 2011 - a handful of months ago - Durham, NC, was moving forward to accept this identification as valid, thus, it would enable people who had it to get a drivers license. I didn't keep up with it, and am not sure if this was passed into law.

But if Durham was planning on accepting this un-verifiable identification, we can be sure that other cities/states were too. San Fransisco comes to mind, and trying to think back to what I read, the Matricula Consular Card may be an acceptable for of identification there, too. Anyone care to look it up?

Sorry, missed this somehow: they are NOT issued for any legitimate diplomatic reason. They are issued so their citizens can illegally live in and get service in a foreign country.

They should never be accepted, by any institution, based upon the following FBI testimony to Congress in 2003:

http://www2.fbi.gov/congress/congres...craw062603.htm

This is the most worrisome, to me, from the testimony; quote: "Fourth, in some locations, when an individual seeking a Matricula Consular is unable to produce any documents whatsoever, he will still be issued a Matricula Consular by the Mexican consular official, if he fills out a questionnaire and satisfies the official that he is who he purports to be."

In other words, if you can lie fairly well, then you get a Matricula Consular Card.

That's right! They are basically issued to anybody that can fabricate a good story/ Mexican birth certificate, and their sole purpose is to facilitate illegal immigration.

I remember a couple of years ago Mexican nationals were coming to set up shop here in Canada too, until the government finally put in place a visa requirement. Mexico's Foreign Affairs Ministry was quote/unquote "LIVID".

Instead of denouncing that decision and being "livid", and instead of them issuing consular ID cards so that their citizens can establish some sort of identification as an illegal in a foreign country, they should try to fix what's happening in their own backyard.

You know, everyone's blaming the United States for not being able to control the southern border, but in reality, Mexico is equally to blame for the problem. Now I'm starting to understand why Arizona needed that immigration law...

Exactly.

Exactly.

Right, but they chose to exploit this loophole (as you said above).

I believe you are mistaken; they certainly issue the card at consulates in the USA. Because there is no purpose to the card in Mexico, I'm not sure if they even issue them there (the card is for Mexican nationals living abroad). I believe they only issue the cards abroad.

That's why most get the card, yes.

I don't really follow your logic here. Issuing a DL is something the state does; how would a city council resolution change state law? What the Durham city council did was vote in favor of allowing the police to accept this card as proof of identification (not especially wise, but their choice). That is a far cry from being able to use it to get a DL.

Why they are issued (officially) and why they are issued (in reality) are two different inquiries; your paragraph above addresses the latter.

Of course they shouldn't be accepted by anyone, but that doesn't make accepting the card illegal not does it make the issuance of the card illegal.

---------------------------

Back on topic, is presentation of a Matricula Consular to the TDC an automatic referral to ICE?

Well there oughta be a law that prohibit accepting these bogus cards as identification.

It should be! It's a very grave problem if the TSA refuses to accept NEXUS cards, but they'll have no problem with a Consular ID card, or if they won't report its usage to immigration.

I actually would suggest that the person who originally asked this question to fly from PHX.. Lol, perhaps meet Joe Arpaio over coffee beforehand.

That would be fine.

Yes, but is it?

There's a big difference between accepting the card and rejecting the card but not snitching.

No, Mexico is not to blame. No country is responsible for keeping people inside, and no country is responsible for what its citizens do in a foreign country. Mexico may have some bad economic policies, but they are not responsible for what happens in the US as a result of this.

They have just as big of a responsibility to control the drug cartels along the border as the US does. And they either don't do it at all, or they do a very poor job. (that was little off topic)

As far as regular illegal immigrants, what I meant to say by blaming them is, instead of Mexican authorities being livid at US policies (and recently the Canadian visa requirement), they should work proactively to improve the economic conditions in their country. Not bluntly encouraging them to illegally immigrate by providing them with identification cards.

Its not snitching. Its enforcing a federal law, and they themselves would be committing a crime by not reporting the action to immigration officials. Why is it any different than reporting to local police if the TSA found drugs in someone's bag?

You could also say that the US has the responsibility of controlling the flow of firearms to Mexico, which fuel the violence of the drug cartels.

Of course they should work proactively to improve the economic conditions in their country. But they also have a responsibility to serve the needs of, and advocate for, their own citizens, whether legal or illegal. Every country does that (including the US, as the recent hikers situation shows).

Because having the Matricula Consular card is not illegal. A legal immigrant can obtain the card.

Yes, the US has a responsibility of controlling the flow of firearms as well (and I know that they're not perfect either).

I normally don't defend US policies very often, but the US does far more to secure the border and control contraband goods than Mexico.

Mexico has a responsibility to serve their citizens, but Mexico instead encourages the committing federal crimes of their citizens by providing them with tools. Then in the spirits of protecting the needs and advocating for their citizens, they outcry and protest laws aimed towards curbing the illegal immigrants.

Personally, I don't think they should have any rights. Zero. They're illegal. On top of using pubic resources, now they want the privilege of being able to fly domestically, open bank accounts, obtain credit, etc.

If you go to Mexico and try to do the same thing, Mexico suddenly changes its position on illegal immigration. Its ridiculous. And the Mexican government should stop making excuses and trying to protect them.

Yet, almost everyone who has such a card and attempts to use it is illegal. As those who are legal would actually have no need for the card, and would use valid IDs. Your correct that anyone could obtain a Matricula Consular card... but lets be honest and use common sense... who DOES obtain them?

Presenting a consular card creates a reasonable suspicion that the immigrant is illegal.

A legal immigrant using this card when they also have a driver's icence doesn't make sense. And if it doesn't make sense, its usually not true.

They may wish to obtain the card to be "registered" with the Mexican government for consular protection, but would certainly use a US driver's licence as ID to board an airplane within the US.. Or they would use a passport, or green card. Anything but this bogus matricula card.

Its not "snitching"; its due diligence.

You are correct, having the card and attempting to use it is not illegal (as far as I know, heck as of 2002/3 about a dozen states allowed people to use these cards to get drivers license).

But Section 8 USC 1324 makes it a crime, when you reasonably suspect someone of being illegal, to give them aid. I and other TSOs must report it to a LEO (actually contact a STSO, who upon verifying what we have seen, contact a LEO).

You can argue all you want, but it is reasonable for me to suspect that only those who are here illegally will have and use this card (take the person who posted the question that started the current conversation).

Specifically from Section 8 USC 1324:

"(ii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, transports, or moves or attempts to transport or move such alien within the United States by means of transportation or otherwise, in furtherance of such violation of law;"

and...

"(iii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place, including any building or any means of transportation;"

Now, you may not like this, but there it is. Yes, TSA will contact a LEO. We are required to by law, as it is VERY reasonable to suspect this person is an illegal immigrant.

Its actually Title 8 USC 1324, not section 8.

But I agree, I think presenting this card as identification should involve immigration authorities investigating your legal status...

Its not snitching. Its upholding the law and its integrity. And its not any different than being caught by the TSA with drugs in your bag. Would you consider that snitching as well?

Presenting this card = Creates a reasonable suspicion that your illegal (as a TSO, you cannot prove that).

Possessing drugs in your bag = Creates a reasonable suspicion/probable cause (only the police may identify them as drugs, the TSA can only suspect that a certain object is a drug)

Either case, requires a call to the appropriate authorities.

If illegal immigrants want rights, they should go back to Mexico, and immigrate the legal way, and stop being a public charge on honest, tax paying citizens.

This should not be a debate on immigration policy. Take that to OMNI P/R

They did that by force? Your buddy should sue them.

Just as the TSA has zero business looking for drugs in someone's bag, or even trying to determine whether something they see is drugs, they have no business speculating on or reporting on someone's immigration status. TSA are not "law enforcement", they are government employees tasked with preventing WEI from getting on airplanes.