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-   -   Denied entry into the U.S (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1766141-denied-entry-into-u-s.html)

FlyingStella May 15, 2016 10:45 pm

Denied entry into the U.S
 
For reference I am a 26 year old female, who has never been arrested and the most trouble I've been in with the law are a couple of speeding tickets.
In February I left Canada to meet a girlfriend and go backpacking in Central America.
My flight went through Toronto where I went through U.S customs, ending up in Fort Lauderdale, Florida where i would meet my friend and then together board another flight to Nicaragua.

When going through U.S customs in Toronto I got detained and questioned by the customs officer.

Basically way back in 2012 when I was young and dumb, i met someone online and went to visit him in the states. He paid for my ticket, and I paid him back for half when I got there. Yes he was older then me. That is a personal preference. I've always been a bit of an 'old soul' and don't like guys my own age.
Obviously I know why the customs officer flagged this as 'suspicious' but the issue I had was I left there with my backpack being thrown at me and booted out the door because he accused me of being a prostitue, repeatedly asked me how much money I was paid to go there and wouldn't let me through unless I could supply 3-4 months of pay stubs from my job. (Not something I usually carry with me when I'm going backpacking for 6 weeks.)

Yes he had every right to deny me entry because I could not provide the required documentation however I left there feeling dirty, degraded, and absolutely horrible about myself.
I feel completely sick and am terrified to go through customs again because of the way I was treated, and I had to spend $1,200 booking a next day flight to Nicaragua that did not go through the U.S.

What I want to know is, can I make a complaint about the way I was treated, and send proof of employment to 'clear my name' before I travel through the states again or do I just have to risk it and hope for a better outcome next time? I don't want to pay for another flight only to find out I'm being turned away again, because quite honestly I can't afford that.

This whole experience has made me never want to travel through the states again, but most cheap flights go through there so I can either go through that nerve wracking process again or pay double or triple for flights from Canada direct to my next destination.

So basically I'm just looking for some guidance.. Can I complain? Will that just put an even bigger red flag next to my name? Does this mean I can't ever enter the states? I am a duel passport holder (I have an EU passport) if I try and go through the states on that passport is it going to look suspicious?
Would I be able to apply for a nexus card now that I've been denied entry and would that help for future visits to the states?

I had been to the states several times before this incident, but always driving across the border not flying. Why was it not an issue when I drove?

bruceba May 16, 2016 1:06 am


Originally Posted by FlyingStella (Post 26631489)
For reference I am a 26 year old female, who has never been arrested and the most trouble I've been in with the law are a couple of speeding tickets.
In February I left Canada to meet a girlfriend and go backpacking in Central America.
My flight went through Toronto where I went through U.S customs, ending up in Fort Lauderdale, Florida where i would meet my friend and then together board another flight to Nicaragua.

When going through U.S customs in Toronto I got detained and questioned by the customs officer.

Basically way back in 2012 when I was young and dumb, i met someone online and went to visit him in the states. He paid for my ticket, and I paid him back for half when I got there. Yes he was older then me. That is a personal preference. I've always been a bit of an 'old soul' and don't like guys my own age.
Obviously I know why the customs officer flagged this as 'suspicious' but the issue I had was I left there with my backpack being thrown at me and booted out the door because he accused me of being a prostitue, repeatedly asked me how much money I was paid to go there and wouldn't let me through unless I could supply 3-4 months of pay stubs from my job. (Not something I usually carry with me when I'm going backpacking for 6 weeks.)

Yes he had every right to deny me entry because I could not provide the required documentation however I left there feeling dirty, degraded, and absolutely horrible about myself.
I feel completely sick and am terrified to go through customs again because of the way I was treated, and I had to spend $1,200 booking a next day flight to Nicaragua that did not go through the U.S.

What I want to know is, can I make a complaint about the way I was treated, and send proof of employment to 'clear my name' before I travel through the states again or do I just have to risk it and hope for a better outcome next time? I don't want to pay for another flight only to find out I'm being turned away again, because quite honestly I can't afford that.

This whole experience has made me never want to travel through the states again, but most cheap flights go through there so I can either go through that nerve wracking process again or pay double or triple for flights from Canada direct to my next destination.

So basically I'm just looking for some guidance.. Can I complain? Will that just put an even bigger red flag next to my name? Does this mean I can't ever enter the states? I am a duel passport holder (I have an EU passport) if I try and go through the states on that passport is it going to look suspicious?
Would I be able to apply for a nexus card now that I've been denied entry and would that help for future visits to the states?

I had been to the states several times before this incident, but always driving across the border not flying. Why was it not an issue when I drove?

https://help.cbp.gov/app/forms/complaint

chgoeditor May 16, 2016 7:42 pm

So, I feel as if part of the story is missing. What happened on your 2012 visit? Were you denied entry into the US?

jphripjah May 20, 2016 12:00 am

How did the customs officer know that in 2012 you were visiting an older guy who paid for your ticket? Did you go through secondary inspection on that visit and admit that?

Is you friend in Fort Lauderdale a man, and if so, had you ever met him or the 2012 guy in real life before the visit? I think when women are traveling to meet men that they only know online, this may create suspicion with CBP officers.

cbn42 May 20, 2016 2:59 am

You can definitely file a complaint. It probably won't result in much, but it may make you feel better. If you come back again with the proper documentation, I don't think you will have any problem. You can also apply for a visa in advance, which gives you the right to appeal to an immigration judge if you are denied entry. And yes, I believe you can apply for Nexus.

If it helps any, you're not alone here. This kind of treatment is not unusual from CBP, and happens to US citizens as well.

GUWonder May 20, 2016 5:15 am


Originally Posted by cbn42 (Post 26654244)
If it helps any, you're not alone here. This kind of treatment is not unusual from CBP, and happens to US citizens as well.

It's illegal for CBP to deny entry into the US to recognized US citizens -- even if the US citizen has a noted history of online "dating"/dating much older persons supplying them with flight tickets.

cbn42 May 20, 2016 4:49 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 26654477)
It's illegal for CBP to deny entry into the US to recognized US citizens -- even if the US citizen has a noted history of online "dating"/dating much older persons supplying them with flight tickets.

I was referring to the overall treatment. US citizens cannot be denied entry, but they can be mistreated in other ways.

MaxBuck May 20, 2016 8:06 pm


Originally Posted by chgoeditor (Post 26636217)
So, I feel as if part of the story is missing. What happened on your 2012 visit? Were you denied entry into the US?

This question is like being asked to judge the quality of artwork on the Sistine Chapel ceiling by looking at Adam's fingernail.

kmflinkle May 26, 2016 9:45 am


Originally Posted by cbn42 (Post 26654244)
And yes, I believe you can apply for Nexus.

My understanding is a refusal, even if there was no attempt to violate immigration law or deception, makes a traveler permanently ineligible for NEXUS. Not certain but the OP should also check with CBP and determine whether she needs to apply for a visa in advance for any future travel.

alphaod May 29, 2016 3:23 pm


Originally Posted by kmflinkle (Post 26685008)
My understanding is a refusal, even if there was no attempt to violate immigration law or deception, makes a traveler permanently ineligible for NEXUS. Not certain but the OP should also check with CBP and determine whether she needs to apply for a visa in advance for any future travel.

Even with visa you can still get denied entry into the US.

tanja May 29, 2016 5:03 pm


Originally Posted by alphaod (Post 26698526)
Even with visa you can still get denied entry into the US.

So true. I was years ago told by the swedish embassy that even if family members had visa it was all up to the immigration "agent". That I do think is wrong /weird.

cbn42 May 29, 2016 5:20 pm


Originally Posted by alphaod (Post 26698526)
Even with visa you can still get denied entry into the US.

That is technically true, but it's much less likely to be denied entry with a visa than an ESTA. Also, if you have a visa and are denied entry, you have the right to appeal to an immigration judge.

FlyingStella May 30, 2016 4:17 pm

Thank you everyone for your replies.

when I visited in 2012 I didn't have any issue going through customs and the topic was never brought up, nor was it the two or three times since 2012 that I have driven across the border.
The friend I was meeting in Florida was a female and Canadian, we were just meet there to board a plane to Central America together because we were coming from different parts of Canada.

I want to get this cleared up so I can travel through the US, without trouble. I have horrible anxiety when I fly which can cause panic attacks, and I'm sure I came off as nervous, panicky or trying to hide something because of it, and I'm sure it'll be as bad if not worse next time.

Looking at the paperwork I received, it looks like it was a 'application for admission withdrawn'
Under section 212 (a)(7)(A)(I)(I)


Intending Immigrant [INA § 212(a)(7)(A)(i)(I)] – This is the most common ground of inadmissibility applied under INA § 212(a)(7). Any foreign national who seeks to enter the U.S. and remain here permanently, or who is suspected of seeking to enter the U.S. and remain here permanently, but who does not have the proper documents to demonstrate that s/he has authorization to do so, is inadmissible.

I assume this is because I had a one way flight to Fort Lauderdale booked, then a one way flight from FL to Central America, and could not prove my place of employment without my pay stubs.
Any suggestions on how to deal with this?
Should I apply for a visa? Am I now ineligible for nexus?
From what I've read online it all seems very.. Inconsistent.

catocony May 30, 2016 6:06 pm

The one-way ticket was the main issue. You frequently need to show proof that you're going to return to Canada. A one-way ticket doesn't do that.

jphripjah May 30, 2016 6:45 pm

Thanks for your floo up FlyingStella. I don't know why you are mentioning the 2012 visit to an older man who paid for half of your ticket, or why you think this was a red flag to the customs officer. Did the 2012 visit come up at all in your discussion with the customs officer this time?

How did he accuse you of being a prostitute? That seems odd to me. I don't think 26 year old Canadian women typically travel to Costa Rica to work as prostitutes. What specifically did he say to accuse you of being a prostitute? What did you tell him that you do for a living?

It sounds like he was concerned that you couldn't pay for this vacation and that someone else was actually paying and/or that you weren't really going to Costa Rica, you were planning to leave the airport in For Lauderdale and stay in the US.

Loren Pechtel May 30, 2016 7:44 pm


Originally Posted by jphripjah (Post 26703332)
Thanks for your floo up FlyingStella. I don't know why you are mentioning the 2012 visit to an older man who paid for half of your ticket, or why you think this was a red flag to the customs officer. Did the 2012 visit come up at all in your discussion with the customs officer this time?

How did he accuse you of being a prostitute? That seems odd to me. I don't think 26 year old Canadian women typically travel to Costa Rica to work as prostitutes. What specifically did he say to accuse you of being a prostitute? What did you tell him that you do for a living?

It sounds like he was concerned that you couldn't pay for this vacation and that someone else was actually paying and/or that you weren't really going to Costa Rica, you were planning to leave the airport in For Lauderdale and stay in the US.

Yeah, that's my take on it, also. The official didn't think the stated plans were true. Perhaps your anxiety about flying caused the problem.

YVR Cockroach May 30, 2016 7:45 pm


Originally Posted by jphripjah (Post 26703332)
How did he accuse you of being a prostitute? That seems odd to me. I don't think 26 year old Canadian women typically travel to Costa Rica to work as prostitutes. What specifically did he say to accuse you of being a prostitute?

That accusation isn't so uncommon. A few years back, a school girl (as in high school) from my neck of the woods (SW Canada) flying to meet a parent in the U.S. was accused of precisely that (prostitution) while going through pre-clearance at YVR about a decade back. Ground for suspicion ws because she was in school uniform (of a Catholic school, no less) which did involve a tartan skirt (which most private schools for girls in the area seem to have a fetish for).

GUWonder May 31, 2016 12:37 pm


Originally Posted by YVR Cockroach (Post 26703503)
That accusation isn't so uncommon. A few years back, a school girl (as in high school) from my neck of the woods (SW Canada) flying to meet a parent in the U.S. was accused of precisely that (prostitution) while going through pre-clearance at YVR about a decade back. Ground for suspicion ws because she was in school uniform (of a Catholic school, no less) which did involve a tartan skirt (which most private schools for girls in the area seem to have a fetish for).

Indeed, a small minority of women coming into the US from Canada -- more so those from Quebec, Ontario and British Columbia than elsewhere in Canada -- do indeed get subjected to the "prostitute" suspicion by CBP.

FlyingStella Aug 25, 2016 9:42 pm

That was the verbal reason the customs officer gave me for not allowing me entry.
He asked me if I knew this guy who I met in 2012, and how I met him, which I replied a dating website. To which he goes, a dating website? How much did he pay you to go there? Which I repeatedly answered nothing. He asked me several times how much I was paid, which is, in my opinion asking if I'm a prostitue without actually using that word.
Then he asked where I work, and if I had pay stubs for the last four months of employment. I said no, I don't typically backpack through Central America with a collection of pay stubs, and he denied me entry.

I haven't filed a complaint because I am scared and embarrassed to bring this up again, but I'm now running into a problem.. I am moving out of Canada, and the cheapest flights of course go through the states. I would like to get this cleared up so I can fly through there (as much as I don't ever want to go back to the us, it's the easiest way) and I don't know what's the best way to deal with this. I refuse to book an international flight for upwards of $1,000 only to potentially miss it because of this..
I really don't know what to do, just thinking about it gives me severe anxiety, and I want to have the best possible chance of never being put through something like that again.

cestmoi123 Aug 26, 2016 11:14 am


Originally Posted by FlyingStella (Post 27120737)
That was the verbal reason the customs officer gave me for not allowing me entry.
He asked me if I knew this guy who I met in 2012, and how I met him, which I replied a dating website. To which he goes, a dating website? How much did he pay you to go there? Which I repeatedly answered nothing. He asked me several times how much I was paid, which is, in my opinion asking if I'm a prostitue without actually using that word.
Then he asked where I work, and if I had pay stubs for the last four months of employment. I said no, I don't typically backpack through Central America with a collection of pay stubs, and he denied me entry.

I haven't filed a complaint because I am scared and embarrassed to bring this up again, but I'm now running into a problem.. I am moving out of Canada, and the cheapest flights of course go through the states. I would like to get this cleared up so I can fly through there (as much as I don't ever want to go back to the us, it's the easiest way) and I don't know what's the best way to deal with this. I refuse to book an international flight for upwards of $1,000 only to potentially miss it because of this..
I really don't know what to do, just thinking about it gives me severe anxiety, and I want to have the best possible chance of never being put through something like that again.

While we can't be certain, the fact that you were denied entry will certainly be available to CBP if you try to travel to the US again. I don't know how big the price difference is between flying via the US and not, but if it's feasible to avoid a US connection, I would do so and not take the chance.

cbn42 Aug 26, 2016 11:49 am


Originally Posted by FlyingStella (Post 27120737)
That was the verbal reason the customs officer gave me for not allowing me entry.
He asked me if I knew this guy who I met in 2012, and how I met him, which I replied a dating website. To which he goes, a dating website? How much did he pay you to go there? Which I repeatedly answered nothing. He asked me several times how much I was paid, which is, in my opinion asking if I'm a prostitue without actually using that word.
Then he asked where I work, and if I had pay stubs for the last four months of employment. I said no, I don't typically backpack through Central America with a collection of pay stubs, and he denied me entry.

I haven't filed a complaint because I am scared and embarrassed to bring this up again, but I'm now running into a problem.. I am moving out of Canada, and the cheapest flights of course go through the states. I would like to get this cleared up so I can fly through there (as much as I don't ever want to go back to the us, it's the easiest way) and I don't know what's the best way to deal with this. I refuse to book an international flight for upwards of $1,000 only to potentially miss it because of this..
I really don't know what to do, just thinking about it gives me severe anxiety, and I want to have the best possible chance of never being put through something like that again.

If you come with the proper documentation, including pay stubs and an onward ticket, I think you'll be fine.

GUWonder Aug 26, 2016 12:41 pm


Originally Posted by cbn42 (Post 27123278)
If you come with the proper documentation, including pay stubs and an onward ticket, I think you'll be fine.

Possibly to probably, but still a gamble. On a non-refundable ticket with no great cancellation option to get all the money back from the trip? A gamble that isn't for everyone.

Jeannietx Aug 26, 2016 8:35 pm

How did the officer even know about the 2012 incident? Obviously there was record of the flight, but how did he know who paid for the ticket? That makes absolutely no sense no me.

I feel it is not unusual, if flying to a country of which you are not a citizen, to be questioned if you cannot prove you have either the means to support yourself, or at least a paid return ticket back to your home country.

I am a US citizen, and when flying with a one way ticket from LAX to Auckland, I had to show proof, when checking in, that I had a paid departure booked to leave New Zealand or they would not let me board at LAX.

cdn1 Aug 27, 2016 1:24 pm

^ that would've been NZ's policy not to allow visitors without return tickets

chgoeditor Aug 27, 2016 4:32 pm


Originally Posted by FlyingStella (Post 27120737)
I haven't filed a complaint because I am scared and embarrassed to bring this up again, but I'm now running into a problem.. I am moving out of Canada, and the cheapest flights of course go through the states. I would like to get this cleared up so I can fly through there (as much as I don't ever want to go back to the us, it's the easiest way) and I don't know what's the best way to deal with this. I refuse to book an international flight for upwards of $1,000 only to potentially miss it because of this..
I really don't know what to do, just thinking about it gives me severe anxiety, and I want to have the best possible chance of never being put through something like that again.

Is the ticket you're thinking about purchasing a round trip or one way? It's safe to assume that a one-way ticket -- even one that shows you're connecting to an international flight departing from the US -- it may also result in denied entry. (Clearly the presence of an international departure did not deter them from denying you back in February.)

flyerCO Aug 27, 2016 6:18 pm


Originally Posted by chgoeditor (Post 27128125)
Is the ticket you're thinking about purchasing a round trip or one way? It's safe to assume that a one-way ticket -- even one that shows you're connecting to an international flight departing from the US -- it may also result in denied entry. (Clearly the presence of an international departure did not deter them from denying you back in February.)

She didn't have a connecting ticket. She had to separate one way tickets. One to US and one onward.

DIFIN Aug 28, 2016 1:35 pm


Originally Posted by cdn1 (Post 27127538)
^ that would've been NZ's policy not to allow visitors without return tickets

NZ is not alone in that

GUWonder Aug 28, 2016 3:41 pm


Originally Posted by cdn1 (Post 27127538)
^ that would've been NZ's policy not to allow visitors without return tickets

Onward tickets, not necessarily return tickets.


Originally Posted by flyerCO (Post 27128392)
She didn't have a connecting ticket. She had to separate one way tickets. One to US and one onward.

Ordinarily that works fine when the arrival and onward tickets are on VWP-participating carriers and the onward travel goes to a country beyond those that the US considers to be contiguous to the US.

Loren Pechtel Aug 28, 2016 5:08 pm


Originally Posted by chgoeditor (Post 27128125)
Is the ticket you're thinking about purchasing a round trip or one way? It's safe to assume that a one-way ticket -- even one that shows you're connecting to an international flight departing from the US -- it may also result in denied entry. (Clearly the presence of an international departure did not deter them from denying you back in February.)

Why would that matter? Is there any country that actually insists on a round-trip ticket rather than simply an on outgoing ticket of some kind? The only times I've been in a situation where tickets needed to be shown they were happy with onward tickets--in one case a round trip ticket wouldn't have been of any value as we couldn't have returned anyway. (We had a single-entry visa, it was used.)

chgoeditor Aug 28, 2016 6:44 pm


Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel (Post 27131894)
Why would that matter? Is there any country that actually insists on a round-trip ticket rather than simply an on outgoing ticket of some kind? The only times I've been in a situation where tickets needed to be shown they were happy with onward tickets--in one case a round trip ticket wouldn't have been of any value as we couldn't have returned anyway. (We had a single-entry visa, it was used.)

But reread her first post. She was previously denied entry when attempting to transit the United States on a one-way ticket before heading to Nicaragua.

bbtrvl Aug 29, 2016 3:22 am


Originally Posted by chgoeditor (Post 27132156)
But reread her first post. She was previously denied entry when attempting to transit the United States on a one-way ticket before heading to Nicaragua.

You should reread her later post:


Looking at the paperwork I received, it looks like it was a 'application for admission withdrawn'
Withdrawing application for admission is extremely different than a denied entry and CBP very strongly distinguishes between the two. "Denied entry" is a legal definition that means something very specific.

squeakr Aug 29, 2016 8:36 am

I don't think anyone here CAN promise it will be OK
 
If you want to play it safe, you'll need to put up the money for a flight that is not transit through the US. If you want to risk it, I'd certainly do everything I could first to become eligible for re admission so you don't have any problems.

kwflyer Aug 29, 2016 8:40 am


Originally Posted by Jeannietx (Post 27125092)
How did the officer even know about the 2012 incident? Obviously there was record of the flight, but how did he know who paid for the ticket? That makes absolutely no sense no me.

I feel it is not unusual, if flying to a country of which you are not a citizen, to be questioned if you cannot prove you have either the means to support yourself, or at least a paid return ticket back to your home country.

I am a US citizen, and when flying with a one way ticket from LAX to Auckland, I had to show proof, when checking in, that I had a paid departure booked to leave New Zealand or they would not let me board at LAX.

CBP has access to (among other things) full flight details including: date/time of booking, payment method (i.e. cash, cc, debit), email address of who booked it, IP address, address of bookee and traveller (if different).

Basically any information you provide to the airline traveling to/transiting the US (and all the meta data) CBP can see (although they have to log into another system to see it). Any information you provide verbatim, can be recorded to your file (and should be deemed to be recorded as listening devices are allowed at POE that can be used at any time, to research past verbatim, that can be held indefinitely)

CBP can also write whatever notes they regarding the inspection they deem necessary. These notes can be seen on any subsequent crossing and can affect your ATS score (risk score assigned to each traveller, similar to a credit history).

CBSA in Canada can do all the same as CBP, and information sharing is commonplace via authorized acts of parliament/congress.

Non citizens of a country (regardless of transiting or travelling to) seeking entry are deemed to be travelling as non bonfa fide travellers, until proved otherwise by the traveller, which will be decided in the sole and absolute discretion of the customs officers.

OP, sounds like you were allowed to withdraw your application. CBP should have given you a list of things to bring next time crossing the border (ties to your country) which among them would be proof of employment (pay stubs). If you can't find the list you can download one from CBP or make an anonymous call and they can provide the standard checklist.

I would not cross the border again unless you can satisfy everything on that checklist. Otherwise look to travel without transiting the US. Seeking entry to another country (even for transiting) as a non citizen/resident is privilege not a right. Innocent till proven guilty is not how the border justice system works (quite the opposite)

Jeannietx Aug 29, 2016 6:54 pm

kwflyer
 
Interesting info!

lmashton Aug 30, 2016 8:04 am

My husband also has "application for admission withdrawn" on his record for entering the US from 2002 or thereabouts. Last year, he applied for and received a 5 year (I think - could be ten) multiple entry visa to the US. Upon trying to pass through immigration in the US, he was pulled over into the room for an interview before he would be admitted into the US. He was told by the immigration officer that, because of the "application for admission withdrawn", he will *always* be pulled over into the interview room before being admitted into the US for the rest of his life. (And yes, they had his entire history of when he entered and left the US in front of them, even with different passports over the years.)

My husband is brown from a country with a lousy passport. Your experience may not be the same as his, but you probably would be better off being prepared for it.

TravellingSalesman Aug 31, 2016 4:16 pm

My advice would be to consult with "proper resources", i.e. either directly with the US authorities or an immigration lawyer, rather than rely on the advice of anonymous people who by necessity base their advice on a few paragraphs of information.

catocony Aug 31, 2016 9:46 pm

Pay the extra money and fly non-stop from Canada to wherever. It's that simple.

Miranda68 Sep 5, 2016 9:44 pm

That's a terrible story, but doesn't surprise me. My husband and I live about 20 minutes from the Canadian border. We have always enjoyed going to Fort Erie to watch the horse races as there are no nearby thoroughbred tracks in New York. But it's really stressful coming back to the USA afterwards. We're United States citizens, almost 50 years old, no arrests, not members of any commonly "profiled" groups and have lived in the same town since we were born. We're questioned in a very tough manner every single time. I get nervous the whole time we're in Canada because I know how stressful it will be to cross back in the United States. It almost makes me not want to go to Canada anymore, but I really enjoy the horse racing and right now the Canadian dollar is weak so we can get a nice dinner for a reasonable amount too.

I feel bad for you. I'd be so upset if I were accused of being a prostitute. :(

jphripjah Sep 5, 2016 11:30 pm


Originally Posted by Miranda68 (Post 27170635)
We're questioned in a very tough manner every single time. (

Once you prove your U.S. citizenship, you don't have to answer any other questions from CBP officers.

bbtrvl Sep 6, 2016 1:32 am


Originally Posted by catocony (Post 27149041)
Pay the extra money and fly non-stop from Canada to wherever. It's that simple.

Lots of places in Canada are less than a day drive from the US border, might as well take a road trip and see what happens at the border before concluding anything.

Actually, if it were me I would pay the $50 CAD to apply for NEXUS. I have no idea if application for admission withdrawn is automatic disqualifying or not. If not then conditional approval at least lets you talk to a US CBP officer.

Even RT same day YYZ-JFK is cheap enough to try and with preclearance knowing if OK before even getting on the plane...


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