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Oh...this opens a whole new can of questions/thought experiments:
- I refuse a TSA gate rape and they escort me out of the "sterile" area. Can they force the airline to remove my checked bag? Or can the pilot decide to take off on time? - Nervous Nellie is waiting for her flight and sees a few middle Eastern passengers waiting at the same gate. She tells the GA, "I'm not boarding a flight with them; I'm leaving and renting a car with my own money". If her checked bag hasn't been loaded onto the plane, can they retrieve it for her there? Or would they tell her to retrieve it from the final destination airport? - Nervous Nellie's situation would also apply if a sudden family emergency forced me to walk out of an airport so I could rent a car or take a bus somewhere I hadn't initially intended on going.
Originally Posted by sbagdon
(Post 17461746)
I suspect that if you just missed the flight (sleepeing, eating, left security then came back late, stuck in the lounge, etc), the bags would stay on the original flight. Believe positive-match is only for international routes.
If you refused the gate search and asked to be escorted out, and your boarding pass showed NCL (no checked luggage), I'd go with you'd walk. If the BP showed checked luggage, I then suspect they'd pull the luggage, just for the novelty of the event (someone actually saying "no"). Oddly, imo, this wouldn't be too disruptive in a flight leaving a hub... a hub is usualy heading towards a final destination, so it would delay only final arrival (ok, unless it's a long delay, to a cruise departure location). What would really be distruptive if it was a flight heading towards a hub, in that if you lost an hour pulling bags, there'd be a lot of potentially missed connections. That would be disruptive. Yet... can you truly refuse a gate search? Seem to remember that the rule is, you can't stop a search once it's been initiated at the entry point. Even if you want to leave the entry point, they get to finish the search. Yet does that only apply at the entry point? Or does starting at the entry point mean that "search has initiated" through the entire sterile area, and not being able to exit even includes the gate search? It would be interesting to see that one tested. |
Originally Posted by mahohmei
(Post 17461890)
Oh...this opens a whole new can of questions/thought experiments:
- I refuse a TSA gate rape and they escort me out of the "sterile" area. Can they force the airline to remove my checked bag? Or can the pilot decide to take off on time? - Nervous Nellie is waiting for her flight and sees a few middle Eastern passengers waiting at the same gate. She tells the GA, "I'm not boarding a flight with them; I'm leaving and renting a car with my own money". If her checked bag hasn't been loaded onto the plane, can they retrieve it for her there? Or would they tell her to retrieve it from the final destination airport? - Nervous Nellie's situation would also apply if a sudden family emergency forced me to walk out of an airport so I could rent a car or take a bus somewhere I hadn't initially intended on going. - I'd presume that if the bag went on the flight, it would be brought back on the next available flight. - I'll go with that the airline will terminate the bag's trip at the location of your last destination. So if you walked out of a hub, they'll make sure it's avaialble to pick up at the hub. If you leave the hub and drive somewhere, you have to get the bag at the airport and you back in the same space/time location, at your expense. |
It seems as if the TSOs at an airport have absolute authority over the entire airport, and there's obviously no accountability.
I'm wondering when we'll find TSOs maliciously performing terminal dumps. Too many passengers opting out? A passenger gave a TSO the stare of death and kept him from stealing the iPad out of her carry-on? A passenger gave a TSO the finger after passing through? A passenger handed an empty drink bottle to a Roaming Drink Inspector and walked off? A TSO saw his ex-wife going to a flight? Time for a terminal dump! Collective punishment, and if it's a big hub like ATL, you get to make worldwide news and essentially gum up travel worldwide for the next day or three. They already force individuals to miss their flights, force airlines to recall departing flights, intentionally break colostomy bags, and otherwise play "we can do anything we want" games on passengers.
Originally Posted by sbagdon
(Post 17467127)
- I'd presume the TSA has sufficient administrative authority to force the airline to pull the bag.
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Originally Posted by mahohmei
(Post 17467218)
It seems as if the TSOs at an airport have absolute authority over the entire airport, and there's obviously no accountability.
I'm wondering when we'll find TSOs maliciously performing terminal dumps. Too many passengers opting out? A passenger gave a TSO the stare of death and kept him from stealing the iPad out of her carry-on? A passenger gave a TSO the finger after passing through? A passenger handed an empty drink bottle to a Roaming Drink Inspector and walked off? A TSO saw his ex-wife going to a flight? Time for a terminal dump! Collective punishment, and if it's a big hub like ATL, you get to make worldwide news and essentially gum up travel worldwide for the next day or three. They already force individuals to miss their flights, force airlines to recall departing flights, intentionally break colostomy bags, and otherwise play "we can do anything we want" games on passengers. |
Originally Posted by sbagdon
(Post 17474864)
I'm not disagreeing with the letter of what you're saying. Yet if it got to that point (baggage dump to find the bag), it would very quicly escalate to the highest representative from the operating airline, the airport authority, and the TSA. And yes, they could dump the terminal because someone gave a TSO the evil-eye, yet (like it or not) that's a political act, and that requires a TSA suit.
I'm too young to remember this, but before 9/11, if the screeners caught someone run in through the exit, or if they realized that the WTMD had been unplugged for the past hour, would they do a terminal dump? On the other hand, especially if there's an election around the corner, I could see political benefits to terminal dumps. The Terror Color Code(TM) was raised to "Orange" as the 2004 election approached for obvious reasons. As an election gets close, could DHS start getting "intelligence" about impending terrorist attacks at certain airports, prompting weekly terminal dumps here and there? No better way to keep incumbents in office than to make them think the next terrorist attack is right around the corner. |
Originally Posted by mahohmei
(Post 17474974)
I'm too young to remember this, but before 9/11, if the screeners caught someone run in through the exit, or if they realized that the WTMD had been unplugged for the past hour, would they do a terminal dump?.
While there were incidents at checkpoints, there was no where near the level of thuggishness and incompetence that we now have with the TSA checkpoint guards. |
On the subject of terminal dumping (not related to the TSA), while I've never experienced it, I've always wondered what the appropriate response would be if you were in the "sterile" area and heard the fire alarm.
It's almost a given that close to 100% of the people in the terminal will ignore it. I'm not one to ignore fire alarms (I twice was the only tenant in a 35-unit apartment building to actually evacuate), and I'm actually more likely to be the one having to explain that I'm leaving the 24-story condo tower because the canned-voice fire alarm isn't just talking its head off for fun. For airports, though, I'd probably play it like everyone else and ignore it. If I see direct evidence of a fire, emergency exits abound, and that's a calculated risk I'll take vs. the personal safety risk of going through the TSA a second time.
Originally Posted by TsaAbuseWatch
(Post 17491490)
There was no such thing as a terminal dump before the rise of the TSA.
While there were incidents at checkpoints, there was no where near the level of thuggishness and incompetence that we now have with the TSA checkpoint guards. |
Originally Posted by mahohmei
(Post 17491863)
On the subject of terminal dumping (not related to the TSA), while I've never experienced it, I've always wondered what the appropriate response would be if you were in the "sterile" area and heard the fire alarm.
It's almost a given that close to 100% of the people in the terminal will ignore it. I'm not one to ignore fire alarms (I twice was the only tenant in a 35-unit apartment building to actually evacuate), and I'm actually more likely to be the one having to explain that I'm leaving the 24-story condo tower because the canned-voice fire alarm isn't just talking its head off for fun. For airports, though, I'd probably play it like everyone else and ignore it. If I see direct evidence of a fire, emergency exits abound, and that's a calculated risk I'll take vs. the personal safety risk of going through the TSA a second time. |
Originally Posted by STBCypriot
(Post 17492720)
I really did not see very many people exiting the secure area and going outside of the terminal. In fact, TSA was still screening people into the secure area.
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Originally Posted by G_Wolf
(Post 17503902)
Wow. Just wow. It's a good thing no terrorist ever considered the possibility of using fire or anything potentially flammable as a weapon, right? :(
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Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer
(Post 17504679)
Remember that TSA is not there for your personal safety or protection.
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There are 8 folks doing gate gropes at IAD today for a half-full CRJ. This is truly a waste.
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Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer
(Post 17513389)
There are 8 folks doing gate gropes at IAD today for a half-full CRJ. This is truly a waste.
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Till I read the accounts on FT, I had never realized what I had seen on a MR at RDU 1 1/2 years ago. 4-5 TSA suddenly appeared at a gate across from where I was waiting for my next flight, and I watched as they put on gloves and randomly approached or pulled passengers who were on line to board. I don't recall seeing anyone patted down. They stayed for about 15 minutes, then disappeared and about 1 hour later reappeared at that same gate.
Haven't seen it since and hope never to be part of one. Still not quite sure I understood what they were doing then, or what the purpose is. |
Originally Posted by orknot2be
(Post 17531803)
Haven't seen it since and hope never to be part of one. Still not quite sure I understood what they were doing then, or what the purpose is.
Mike |
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