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FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   ?? Interfering with the screening process?? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1201920-interfering-screening-process.html)

FlyingUnderTheRadar Apr 5, 2011 3:38 am
Originally Posted by studentff (Post 16159060)
Adding to the confusion, TSA considers "non-physical interference" with screening a fine-worthy offense:

http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/enforc...nce_policy.pdf

Nobody has ever given a good definition for that. I doubt they ever will.

It seems like a catch all contempt-of-screener charge similar to contempt-of-cop charges like disorderly conduct. It probably includes things like exercising your right to free speech or asking hard questions
Also note these are civil penalties which have lower standard of guilt than criminal penalties. And IIRC they go in front of a judge:

http://law.justia.com/cfr/title49/49....3.3.10.4.html

Here is one well known case that was appealed:

http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions...5a0399p-06.pdf

ElizabethConley Apr 5, 2011 5:22 am
Originally Posted by OnTheAsile (Post 16158594)
I have searched the Forum and the Internet and have been unable to find any information as to what the TSA offically considers to be " interfering with the screening process". If any of our more knowledgeable members can direct me to the information I would appreciate it. PLEASE refrain from speculative or irrelevant comments. Thanks
It's SSI.

I'm sorry. I know you'd like a definitive answer. You're entitled to a definitive answer. Every American citizen is.

Don't like it? Protest the TSA's unconstitutional pattern of malfeasance.

InkUnderNails Apr 5, 2011 6:03 am
Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 16161120)
..,
Anyway as a person that is traveling through a checkpoint if YOU do ANYTHING that intentionally delays, impedes or distracts a TSO from executing their assigned duties, you are interfering with the screening process.
Fair enough. Here are a few scenarios:
  1. I have presented my NEXUS and the TDC refuses it. I have a DL but I insist that he/she take the NEXUS. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  2. I have opted out of the WBI. I insist on clean gloves. The screener pulls a pair of gloves from his non-sterile pocket. I insist he gets them out of the box. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  3. I do not take my 3-1-1 bag out of my carry on. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  4. I refuse to move from where I can see my belongings for the opt out frisking. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  5. I insist on seeing my belongings or having them brought to me before allowing the start of the opt out frisking. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  6. I am told that I will need a private search. I offer to only have the search done in public and will sign an authorization. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  7. I have my companion record on video my opt out frisk. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  8. I insist that my medical liquids be screened separately and the sealed sterile container not be opened. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  9. I put my shoes in the bin, rather than the belt. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  10. I put my shoes on the belt, rather than the in the bin. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  11. I forget to hold up my boarding pass as I pass through the WTMD. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  12. I refuse to pronounce my last name for the TDC. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  13. I refuse to tell the screener how much money I am carrying. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  14. When SPOTTED, I do not answer the questions. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  15. In the sterile area I am asked to present my beverage for an unknown test and I refuse. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  16. After being cleared at the check point, I am asked again to submit to a search or a document check while at the gate but I refuse on the grounds that I have already been cleared. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  17. I am in the airport taking pictures of things that are viewable by the public. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  18. I am in the airport taking pictures of the check point being careful to avoid the x-ray screens. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  19. I am taking pictures of the pat down of someone I do not know. It is occurring in full public view. Have I interfered with the screening process?

Thanks. Simple "yes" or "no" responses are all that is needed.

RichardKenner Apr 5, 2011 6:05 am
Originally Posted by FlyingUnderTheRadar (Post 16162456)
Here is one well known case that was appealed:

http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions...5a0399p-06.pdf
Unfortunately, I don't think that case clarifies much because the person's behavior, taken as a whole, clearly crossed the line from legitimate protest to inappropriate interference. I'd be disinclined to use that case to guess how a court might rule in a more subtle situation.

goalie Apr 5, 2011 7:36 am
Originally Posted by OnTheAsile (Post 16158594)
I have searched the Forum and the Internet and have been unable to find any information as to what the TSA offically considers to be " interfering with the screening process". If any of our more knowledgeable members can direct me to the information I would appreciate it. PLEASE refrain from speculative or irrelevant comments. Thanks
And you never will :td: as the TSA will use "SSI" as a catch all for what they don't want to tell you/what they don't want you to know-even if the information has absolutely no impact on or is absolutely no threat to nash'nul skewrity whatsoever :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by studentff (Post 16159060)
Adding to the confusion, TSA considers "non-physical interference" with screening a fine-worthy offense:

http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/enforc...nce_policy.pdf

Nobody has ever given a good definition for that. I doubt they ever will.

It seems like a catch all contempt-of-screener charge similar to contempt-of-cop charges like disorderly conduct. It probably includes things like exercising your right to free speech or asking hard questions. Or using Jedi mind tricks to change the outcome of screening. ("These are not the shampoo bottles you're looking for. Move along.") :rolleyes:
Bolding mine: Yup ^ and I can't wait for a pax to be arrested for interfering with the screening process because they gave a middle digit salute while in the NoS. :rolleyes:

bluenotesro Apr 5, 2011 8:02 am
I show up at the airport. Will I be interferring with the screening process?

Give it time....:mad:

Caradoc Apr 5, 2011 8:31 am
Originally Posted by OnTheAsile (Post 16158594)
I have searched the Forum and the Internet and have been unable to find any information as to what the TSA offically considers to be " interfering with the screening process".
There is no such information. "Out of an abundance of caution," the TSA prefers that the "fares" not understand the screening process. This offers them all sorts of opportunities to steal things from your baggage, abuse you, and look at you and your family through the Nude-O-Scope or even simply molest you in public. Since you're not allowed to know what the process is, you can't do anything but what they tell you to do without possibly "interfering with the screening process."

And they like it that way, because if you're not afraid of the thugs in blue shirts, they no longer have any relevance and thus no income because they're wholly unemployable in any other position.

Wally Bird Apr 5, 2011 8:38 am
Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 16161120)
Anyway as a person that is traveling through a checkpoint if YOU do ANYTHING that intentionally delays, impedes or distracts a TSO from executing their assigned duties, you are interfering with the screening process.
You forgot the most important rider; anything in the opinion of the screener(s) that intentionally etc...

IOW it is totally at the whim of whoever is manning that checkpoint on that day at that airport. That's as close to a 'definition' there is; the TSA kangaroo court will decide the specifics of each case. Guess how that goes.

nachtnebel Apr 5, 2011 9:45 am
Originally Posted by RichardKenner (Post 16161286)
There are two problems with the above definition:

(1) What constitutes the TSO's "assigned duties" are in a document that we're not permitted to see. Since we can't know what those duties are, there's no way to know whether an action that we may take will "delay, impede or distract" such person from their duties.

(2) It doesn't take into account that there are constitutionally protected activities (or those permitted by other laws, such as the ADA) which are still legal even if they "delay, impede or distract" a TSO. For example, a person who presents themselves at the checkpoint with medical items are going to "delay" a TSO, but they are permitted to do so by the ADA.

Can you try again?
^^^^^^^

now multiply this kind of mental confusion times 60,000 screeners, many of whom are probably far less mentally acute than the person who made this statement. What are the odds that ANYTHING these people don't like will end up being "interference".

To be valid, laws must be "promulgated", correct?

eyecue Apr 5, 2011 11:15 am
Originally Posted by RichardKenner (Post 16161286)
There are two problems with the above definition:

(1) What constitutes the TSO's "assigned duties" are in a document that we're not permitted to see. Since we can't know what those duties are, there's no way to know whether an action that we may take will "delay, impede or distract" such person from their duties.

(2) It doesn't take into account that there are constitutionally protected activities (or those permitted by other laws, such as the ADA) which are still legal even if they "delay, impede or distract" a TSO. For example, a person who presents themselves at the checkpoint with medical items are going to "delay" a TSO, but they are permitted to do so by the ADA.

Can you try again?
You are making it more difficult than it is. I am searching a bag, you keep reaching into the bag and intentionally impede me. I am on the x-ray and you come in screaming and yelling obscene remarks and I look to see what the commotion is about, you distracted me. I am patting you down and you begin to berate me with personal insults and tell me that I am sexually assaulting you, you have delayed me from performing a patdown.

eyecue Apr 5, 2011 11:18 am
Originally Posted by goalie (Post 16163289)
And you never will :td: as the TSA will use "SSI" as a catch all for what they don't want to tell you/what they don't want you to know-even if the information has absolutely no impact on or is absolutely no threat to nash'nul skewrity whatsoever :rolleyes:

Bolding mine: Yup ^ and I can't wait for a pax to be arrested for interfering with the screening process because they gave a middle digit salute while in the NoS. :rolleyes:
It is not an arrest offense, it is a civil penalty. IF you are flipping off the NOS then you are not standing in the correct position to be scanned and you will either not be scanned or you will be interfering.

Maxwell Smart Apr 5, 2011 11:27 am
Originally Posted by goalie (Post 16163289)
And you never will :td: as the TSA will use "SSI" as a catch all for what they don't want to tell you/what they don't want you to know-even if the information has absolutely no impact on or is absolutely no threat to nash'nul skewrity whatsoever :rolleyes:

Bolding mine: Yup ^ and I can't wait for a pax to be arrested for interfering with the screening process because they gave a middle digit salute while in the NoS. :rolleyes:
Actually, the one time I went thru a scan (MMW), I did exactly that! The trick is to not curl up all your other fingers into a fist, but just loosely curl them a little, and separate them from the relevant digit. So your fingers are still open and separated, one of them is just a little more prominent than the others. ;)

eyecue Apr 5, 2011 11:29 am
Originally Posted by InkUnderNails (Post 16162868)
Fair enough. Here are a few scenarios:
  1. I have presented my NEXUS and the TDC refuses it. I have a DL but I insist that he/she take the NEXUS. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  2. I have opted out of the WBI. I insist on clean gloves. The screener pulls a pair of gloves from his non-sterile pocket. I insist he gets them out of the box. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  3. I do not take my 3-1-1 bag out of my carry on. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  4. I refuse to move from where I can see my belongings for the opt out frisking. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  5. I insist on seeing my belongings or having them brought to me before allowing the start of the opt out frisking. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  6. I am told that I will need a private search. I offer to only have the search done in public and will sign an authorization. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  7. I have my companion record on video my opt out frisk. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  8. I insist that my medical liquids be screened separately and the sealed sterile container not be opened. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  9. I put my shoes in the bin, rather than the belt. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  10. I put my shoes on the belt, rather than the in the bin. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  11. I forget to hold up my boarding pass as I pass through the WTMD. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  12. I refuse to pronounce my last name for the TDC. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  13. I refuse to tell the screener how much money I am carrying. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  14. When SPOTTED, I do not answer the questions. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  15. In the sterile area I am asked to present my beverage for an unknown test and I refuse. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  16. After being cleared at the check point, I am asked again to submit to a search or a document check while at the gate but I refuse on the grounds that I have already been cleared. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  17. I am in the airport taking pictures of things that are viewable by the public. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  18. I am in the airport taking pictures of the check point being careful to avoid the x-ray screens. Have I interfered with the screening process?
  19. I am taking pictures of the pat down of someone I do not know. It is occurring in full public view. Have I interfered with the screening process?

Thanks. Simple "yes" or "no" responses are all that is needed.
SOME ARE AND SOME ARE NOT. To test your questions ask yourself are you keeping someone from doing something that is part of their job?

Boggie Dog Apr 5, 2011 11:32 am
Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 16164915)
You are making it more difficult than it is. I am searching a bag, you keep reaching into the bag and intentionally impede me. I am on the x-ray and you come in screaming and yelling obscene remarks and I look to see what the commotion is about, you distracted me. I am patting you down and you begin to berate me with personal insults and tell me that I am sexually assaulting you, you have delayed me from performing a patdown.
In other words any thing you make up and say is interference is your definition and is all it takes. Is that about the size of it?

Gosh, anywhere else I might be subject to a fine there is a detailed description of what it takes to be charged with that offense.

MKE-MR Apr 5, 2011 11:33 am
Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 16165000)
SOME ARE AND SOME ARE NOT. To test your questions ask yourself are you keeping someone from doing something that is part of their job?
So, we defer to the expert. It shouldn't take you long, there were only 19 questions. Yes or no for each, please. After all, since "the screening process" is so vital to national security, we wouldn't want to get this wrong.

Thanks. ^


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