Hate
 

1 John 3:15 applies here folks.

I'm getting fed up with the hate. Get a grip already. It's counterproductive, and a distraction we can ill afford.

TSA employees are our fellow Americans, and human to boot. We may disagree with them, but hating them is not helpful.

Elizabeth,

I respect you and your postings, but I'm going to have to disagree with both statements.

I don't believe that TSA employees are either "fellow Americans" or "human" in at least one of its several meanings.

"Homo sapiens sapiens?" Possibly. But "human" as the root of "humane?" Nope. I don't believe that for a second.

:-: to Mrs. Conley, once again.

May I also add one of the best tenets of psychological warfare:

"Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer."

There is doubt as to who initially uttered the line.

They are domestic terrorists, enemies of the citizens of the united states. They will receive no aid nor comfort.

I'll take this under advisement, however I don't expect to change my feelings at all.

It is not a matter of hate. With TSA it is a matter of right and wrong, freedom and anarchy.

Our founders and many, many others since have paid heavily for the rights we enjoy. To have any agency come in and try to destroy that is unacceptable.

I view TSA as a Clear and Present Danger to the United States of America.

1. Epic has made another attempt to get the TSA to release their Naked Scammer pics. That's productive. I come here to learn of such things. I wish there was a single source of such productive, encouraging information. At one time this forum was just such a place.

2. If we could leverage some relief from TSA civil rights violations, but TSA employees would benefit as well, would we reject such an opportunity? If we hated sufficiently, then perhaps we might be that foolish. Hatred of an idea that is an anathema to Good is one thing, hatred of a person is quite another.

Jesus, will the hyperbole ever end in this forum? I mean good God.

I'm reminded of a folksy saying I heard once. Being Southern by heritage, and once again by domicile, I'm fond of such things.

"Trying to handle a problem through anger is as effective as straightening a pile of papers with a fan."

Mrs. Conley reminds us that we may hate the sin, but love the sinner, so to speak. It does us no good to be blinded by hate.

We can be an organized, effective force for good. Let's harness that.

Thanks ever so much for telling me how I should feel :rolleyes:

What are positive alternatives?
 

Kudos to Elizabeth for expressing what many feel here.

So instead of hating the system (and some those who work within it), how would we - the educated frequently-flying public - define "an acceptable security system" in a post-hate DHS/TSA world?

How would the passenger and/or baggage screening process change?
What defines an acceptable level of risk?
Who would best be responsible/accountable for administering it?
Who would be be in charge of oversight?


I've just been thinking how good it would be to offer a solution.

Thoughts?

With all due respect, not all of us necessarily rely on the Bible, has a Bible, identifies as Christian, or has access to religious material at work or home, etc. As a long-lapsed former Christian (now I am agnostic) I have no idea what this scripture is, so simply telling me (and others) it applies here isn't incredibly helpful.

Again, with all due respect, telling others to "get a grip" is basically telling others what to do and think. It's different than offering an opinion about more useful behavior and/or commentary.

Quite frankly, my negative experience with the TSA involved the employee telling me to "get a grip". I found it offensive then for obvious reasons - someone is telling me what to do, what to say, how to react. It's not well received in this instance, either, for the same reasons. And I'm saying this as one who hasn't really called anyone names or the like; I may not agree when I read some of the postings, but I won't impinge on others' First Amendment rights, either.

Just my opinion.

Leaving it in as it is certainly a well-stated opinion.

I honestly don’t hate most of the TSOs. There are a few that I do, especially that [omitted] at ORD that purposefully hit my testicle in retaliation for making him do the patdown. I am a fellow American and a human, and he had no regard for me.

I’ve dealt with hundreds, if not thousands, of TSA personnel. I let them set the tone. I will opt out and I will not answer questions where they are not required to know the answer. If they are reasonable humans they will understand that I don’t want my toddler touched. If they are unreasonable, then so am I. Gladly, most of them couldn’t care less about their role. I’ve talked my way out of secondary screening, pat downs, and carrying concealed liquids. How can I hate them for that? (Well I do hate I have to do those things.)

Not to wax philosophical here, but Anger, Hatred, Disdain and Disgust are quite separate emotions, although it is sometimes difficult to distinguish them.

I don't take the threats of physical harm or hyperbolic vitriol towards TSA staff as posted here seriously or literally. Just the work of keyboard warriors.

One can always 'plonk' the offenders or indeed the object(s) of their attention @:-) .

That's a popular cop, and it gets you exactly nowhere with me.

It's currently PC to honor feewwwings above all else. I call Bravo Sierra on that particular trauma-drama. Every feewwwing need not be honored equally.

Thanx Fish.

As to these:

I'm thinking that security must be handed back to the Airlines and the Airports, so that the Constitution and the free market can answer these questions:


There speaks a Libertarian Capitalist. Besides, I'm a huge believer in the Keep It Simple Silly system of problem solving.

Living in a free society means sacrificing the false security government control represents. The answers to these all important questions are unknown to me, but that's OK. I don't have to know the answers from the beginning in order to go about arriving at the correct solution.

I agree with the sentiment re: TSOs -- I take each one individually and at face value.

I would, however, respectfully remind you that the entire U.S. is not Christian and biblical references will be lost on those of us who couldn't care less what the bible says.

The vermin lost any remaining respect (which wasn't much) from me when they groped my wife.

I would respectfully remind you that in any argument with multiple points it would be quite typical for each argument to weigh differently from reader to reader. Quotes from various sources have the usefulness of shorthand for those who can relate to them, and waste minimal time for those who don't.

I understand the sentiment, however its clear TSA views Americans as the enemy.

TSA has picked up the mantle of terrorism, and expanded it FAR beyond what Al Qaeda is capable of.

I'm sorry. Anyone that insist of sexually molesting my children is an enemy.

TSA cannot find a terrorist, BECAUSE they ARE the terrorist.

I can certaily understand why people hate TSA employees for what they do and in the cae of the bully's like those that Chell delt with. Ther was an author who wrotw a book about Nazi Germany inteviewed on NPR last weekend. She said that some people blamed the Jewish people for what happened to them because they didn't fight back. The TSA is a private police force that operates outside the law and the constitution. Recently our gov't started arming investigators that were never before armed (like those that enforce the tarp rules) and it seems like only a matter of when not if TSA gets more police power. Add The Patriot act, no knock night time raids and this country is being destroyed from within. Seems to me strong feelings against these people are called for.

Sorry, but I find the assumption that everyone would know (or be interested in) chapter and verse of the bible rather presumptuous. This is a non-sectarian and completely secular website. You can, of course, post whatever you want, but understand that some people will be put off your assumption that everyone will know what , "1 John 3:15," means.

I flat out don't read posts by people on both sides of the TSO debate precisely because they are filled with hate and hyperbole. And I refuse to act like a an ill mannered person no matter what or how the TSA acts toward me. The shame sure isn't mine.

I find the assumption that I've assumed everyone would know (or be interested in) chapter and verse of the Bible to be presumptuous. Is this such a non-sectarian and completely secular website that you'd prefer I left, rather than express my point of view? You can, of course, post whatever you want, but understand that I will be put off by your assumption that I assume everyone will know what , "1 John 3:15," means.

If I really intended to induce hysteria in militant secularists, I'd explain what 1 John 3:15 means. Then the fur would really fly.

There's way to much fascism in the U.S. today. All of it is to be actively resisted.

Just so I understand, in your view it is fascism if I say, "by including chapter-and-verse Christian bible references, you're losing part of your audience," that's fascism?

Good to know.

I guess this is a Christian thread. I'll go look for a secular one to post in.

Elizabeth, I'd like to ask you: how should I feel about someone who just sexually assaulted me? What emotion should apply?

And I ask, how should I act towards someone who just sexually assaulted me? Should I be ashamed that I feel hatred towards the stranger who just rubbed my breasts and buttocks, and ran her hand across my pubis pressing into my clitoris, against my will? What emotion should apply in this situation?

I have been a lurker here for a long time, but the posting by ElizabethConley inspired by first and probably only post. I agree with her 100% but unfortunate for her she picked a real “one sided” forum for it and probably will be attacked vigorously for it.

I come here to get a reality check and see that some people are very miserable. I consider the TSA as a minor irritant, the same irritant that I get when I get stuck in traffic, the street light has a long red, and renewing a drivers license, etc. When I have to deal with the TSA it normally means I have a flight that will probably be late, they might lose my luggage, and might get stuck in a city I wasn't planning on being in. But at the end of all that I normally get to enjoy a good meal at one of my favorite restaurants followed by many good after dinner drinks and a good cigar. The TSA thing just happens to be way down my list of “things I need to resolve before I die” things.

I have even seen “class warfare” on this site because the “A list preferred” card for Southwest doesn't look different enough than the “A list” card and therefore Southwest didn't give them the respect they thought they should get. I don't think “status” and “Southwest” should be used in the same sentence. I ride Southwest exclusively because they are the most convenient for me due to my home airport and get me to that favorite restaurant with consistency and the least amount of grief. I find it hard to get status sitting next to a person coming down off a 3 day cocaine binge.

I would be willing to bet that most of the TSA employees would much rather have a different job, that they hate working for people that they do. I doubt the TSA will ever be considered one of the best places to work. But in most cases the need to survive and pay the bills keep them there until they find other employment. Granted there are some miserable folks that work there but probably not anymore than any other career. I too have had my fun with the TSA, but in all cases I am so early that I consider it killing time. But I have never held anyone else up because I’m just killing time. I haven't faced it yet but I would refuse the scanner and take the pat-down. I don't much care for either.

Most of you should be so lucky to not have to deal with Customs as a Pilot in Command, they make the TSA look smart. I would say that most are doing the best they can and an overwhelming amount of my experiences have been positive, or maybe I don't consider it something that has a huge affect on my life.

I don't see writing my congressperson much of an answer because they aren't even worth voting for. They might talk like they are on your side but only to the extent of getting your vote. I would guess that there is a better than average chance that the supply contractors for the TSA are in their pockets. The congress don't care about your rights, they only care about theirs and their financial supporters. The average citizen is outspent a million to one.

I once thought a neurosurgeon was disrespectful and had a very bad bedside manner. I didn't like much about him. But the one part I did like was his skill in removing a brain tumor from my daughter's brain. As far a the tumor goes he saved her life, as far as personality not so. During that time I would have welcomed an overbearing TSA person and a grope if that would have been considered my biggest challenge of the time. And like the TSA people, chances are I will never run into him again, at least I hope not.

If you want to call it “getting a grip” or anything else, not everyone has the passion that others do about the process. It doesn't mean that hey are “UN-American”, it just means that at that time the TSA is not very high on their priority list.

Anywho, good luck with your travels. I need to get back to my cigar.

Enjoy.

Should this emotion extend to a large group of people, or can you confine this emotion to the offender?

If the emotion harms you, is it still the best emotion? If the emotion prevents you from being effective in preventing the same crime from happening to someone else, will you cling to the emotion or let it go?

Folks,

This thread is moving to OMNI/PR so it may continue in the proper forum. Recognizing that some of you are not yet OMNI-enabled we'll duplicate the discussion up to this point and close it from further comment.

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essxjay
TS/S moderator

:::sigh::: I do see your point, Elizabeth. And I can say that I do my best to confine my hatred to the people who actually abused me. And I think I do pretty well at this, as evidenced by the fact that I did not feel hatred towards the nice young girl who frisked me in BUR. (As for her obnoxious supervisor, that's a different story!)

The problem is that there are just so MANY offenses happening, that it would appear that the TSOs who are NOT abusive are in the minority. And when you see that a majority of any group of people are abusing others, it's very difficult to not feel that emotion for the entire group!