You've got me really curious now as to why you get caught up each time then, especially since you were approved for Nexus. I really hope that helps and that you're no longer selected for secondary.

That's why I asked if it was specifically only at YYC. It would certainly help narrow down the problem (ie: something that causes you to be selected for secondary at all Canadian airports or jack***es in Calgary playing wannabe cop). I too am looking forward to the outcome of the investigations.

Hopefully, with Nexus, your CP experience will become a lot less eventful.

CATSA screeners are forbidden by law from asking to see ID. I've never encountered a Canadian BDO so I don't know about them but I'm hoping the same applies.

The other thing I'd say is that in my experience (flying out of and watching others pass through Canadian screening) the randomizer mat yields very few positives--in other words, gojirasan, if you are doing this to avoid the scans you should be very happy with the results, but if you're doing it for the express purpose of opting out, you may be rescheduling your ticket pretty often. Your first post made it look like you wanted to opt out to make a point, but in your subsequent posts it appears that you just want to fly free from harassment, so I'm not clear what your ultimate goal is.

I can only speak for YYZ, but you are free to leave the security and pre-clearance area without penalty, and without having to re-enter through Canadian Customs/Immigration. The airline will need to find your bag and bring it to you at the counter, which they may or may not be very unhappy about doing (translation: long delay).

Result!!

No. It has nothing to do with making a point. I do just want to fly without being scoped or groped. Since I'm not even Canadian that wouldn't make much sense anyway. I'll let them handle their own political protests. Maybe you got that impression because I had no idea what to expect from the Canadian authorities in response to my retreat from the checkpoint. In the US you would have some expectation of ending up handcuffed in the back of a police cruiser. I just wanted to do my best to defend my (Canadian) rights if the same were to happen in Canada. Since police tend to lie, a video camera is essential if you think that you will need to defend yourself in court. In Canada it looks like I won't have to worry about maintaining video evidence to support my case or whether surrendering my ID will get me put on a no-fly list. None of the insane police state issues that are of so much concern here south of the border.

I'm not even sure what point there is to be made? That the TSA or CATSA is unjust? That police will lie and arrest you on trumped up charges? Phil Mocek already made that point and nothing seems to have changed. Well except that he has paved the way for others in similar situations to have at least some idea of what to expect.

I guess the latter is the only thing that my hypothetical scenario would have accomplished. Showing other Americans who considered traveling overland to Canada and departing out of there to entirely avoid the scope and grope whether the strategy is viable or will land you in jail. From the feedback I have received in this thread it seems clear that all of that is irrelevant. Leaving the checkpoint in Canada seems to be both legal and allowed by CATSA. So I wouldn't anticipate any problems in that regard. I really appreciate all of your answers. It is amazing how living in a police state makes you appreciate the freedoms in other countries so much more.

They do have the mandate to do identity screening now in limited circumstances. See this post.

On a related matter (nothing to do with you, Wally Bird), am I the only one who believes that thanks to a growing handful of people, this forum is getting nuttier by the minute?

^^ Agreed!

C'mon. Admit it. This place was boring before we crazies arrived. We've brightened up your forum. You're very lucky we're here. And remember that it was the TSA that drove us insane by taking away our freedom to travel. Some creatures just can't handle captivity. We go nuts pacing in our cages.

I am concerned about the important message being lost amongst the noise. I know that I used to overlook this forum and would most likely do so now if I hadn't been here for quite some time in the past. I have seen the response people have had and I myself had similar responses in past.

I know that a few people here have not had the best CATSA experiences, but many of us generally have unremarkable ones. I too find the YYC CATSA screeners I encountered over the past year a little different than those at other major Canadian airports, and don't think that the needs to be as much concern generally as when one flies from a US airport.

I respect your opinion greatly but my experiences have been very different from yours and from many others who fly in Canada. It is interesting that, when I travel to the U.S., I never have any hassles with the TSA nor have I ever had a secondary screening. And, I am talking about a wide variety of airports here. But Canada is a different story.

I think that one important difference between people in the two countries is that Canadians are much more hesitant to make waves and report incidents to CATSA or even the press. However, that is all changing and especially since those two incidents in January at YYC. More and more people are becoming disgusted with the way they are treated at airports and I could not be happier about this turn of events.

http://bit.ly/gq45Mv

Personally, I don't think an important message has been missed in this thread. I think people need to know that screening in Canada is not a pushover and that our rights at the airport are being taken away here, too. In my mind, THAT is the important message.

To the OP - Canada's system is not really one to rail against, but one the US should copy. I wish they would dump their naked machines, but the pat down is done far more efficiently and respectfully. The use of 100% contract screening means CATSA doesn't play politics in this. They always have someone to blame and can do the customer service job much more progressively.

1. The naked machine is not primary. First, not all people who are randomized to the secondary line are directed through the MMW. In my two directs to that lane, I've took a pat down once and the second one I didn't even have my bags opened. Second, you are told, directly, if you are selected that you are absolutely allowed to choose a pat down.

2) Interesting, and a bit surprising. BP scans are supposed to be to check line timing, because of all the complaints CATSA has received about how slow their lines are. Interesting to see this shift. I would write a complaint.

3) You are told, directly, that you have the option of the MMW or a pat down. If you aren't told this, very clearly, you should file a complaint.

4) I've had both pat downs. The Canadian one is similar to the TSA one, if the TSA one follows SOP. If you feel it is getting too intrusive, file a complaint.

A big issue is that there are different contractors that do the security, so different training regimes.

The positive thing about Canada is that they have a very strong customer complaint team in place at CATSA that will go the extra mile. I think the main reason is because they have the political high ground, as all screening clerks are contract.

Honestly, and I like you, but someone in your position cannot really point and comment. When you are part of a police apparatus, commenting on those who are railing against abuses is a dicey situation.

That said, I agree that this specific OP is being completely unreasonable.

You mean because I am not willing to get my balls rubbed by some metrosexual thug getting his jollies from his secret homosexual fantasies and his drive to humiliate anyone he can? Hey, if you're into that kind of thing don't let me stop you, but I prefer to have sex with women rather than male TSA or CATSA screeners. And if my choice is between getting sexually molested or not flying at all, well that aint no choice at all. No trip is worth that.

I also have to wonder about people who don't mind having their genitals rubbed by same sex strangers. Maybe they are secretly homo or bi and don't realize it. Not that there is anything wrong with that. It just might explain some of the differences between those of us who are totally repulsed by the idea and see it as an unspeakable violation and the ones who think that we refuseniks are babies or prudes. Maybe it has more to do with sexual orientation than political orientation. I'm just speculating of course.

I'm not Canadian. I don't see it as my place to try to change whatever systems they have in place. If Canadians feel that the TSA ball grabbing system is smart and effective then who am I to say they shouldn't copy us, but I'm not going to passively sit by and let some guy feel me up. That just isn't going to happen. Whatever happens after my violation is irrelevant. I don't even care whether the guy goes to jail or not. What I care about is not getting violated in the first place. This means that if I take the risk of actually starting with the patdown procedure, the second that the guy touches my balls I am going to be physically batting his hand away even if it means going to prison on assault charges. I think we all have certain responsibilities to at least try to defend our persons against those who would harm us. However I think it would be smarter for me to simply prevent even the possibility of that scenario by planning ahead. Either by wearing an athletic cup so all he ends up feeling is the cup instead of my balls/dick or just leaving the checkpoint entirely as soon as I am selected. As the TSA would say, "out of an abundance of caution".

The most efficient and respectful patdown is the one that doesn't happen at all. As the US falls down the drain into the stinky sewer of a police state it seems like the Canadian government has this idea that it's some kind of race and that they should dive down after us. How about some Canadian politicians being smart for once and whatever they see the US do, they just do exactly the opposite?

I didn't mean this thread in particular. I was responding to

I have seen over the past 15 months or so the participation change on this forum as well as some very different shifts in the general tone and content. Many of us do have a unified concern about screening, but that message runs the risk of being overshadowed by hyperbole or name calling.

We have also lost the active participation of several TSOs over the past year (and I know that there were others before then). While I may not always agree with the content and the style of how some of them post, their 'insider information' has been helpful to many of us.

I used to think that that the TS&S forum was populated by tinfoil hat wearing posters. Then I spent some time doing research and found factual information here or links to that information. But if I had started reading in January 2011 instead of in January 2010 I may not have felt the same way.

Again, I am just concerned that the important message may be lost in the noise on this forum, and that would be a shame.

Maybe that follows the general trend of people waking up to what's happening around us. Over the past 15 months or so, the participation in TSA's lawless behavior at airports has changed, too.

It's getting harder for them to defend their actions. They weren't looking at us naked, lifting our breasts, and feeling our scrotums back then. They weren't getting caught dragging people off train platforms inside to be searched before exiting.

We have also lost the active participation of multiple of TSA apologists.

To the uninformed, all of us who resist DHS encroachment on our freedom look like tinfoil hatters.

That's a reasonable concern. Maybe TS&S would benefit from having a well-written FAQ stickied.

Better that we have people show up to vent their frustrations, then take a look around, settle down, and start working on a solution, than to go back to the general lack of awareness that existed a couple years ago. Harness that new energy.

Shouldn't that be tinfoil underwearers ?This is impinging on a subject we are not permitted to discuss.

The noise has increased recently, likely for the reasons you give. However it is not necessary to read every thread and every post and there is always the ignore list.

Sorry if my occasional (regular ?) vituperation upsets anyone. It's quite likely to get worse though ;) .