Originally Posted by cguzik (Post 15827165)

I had a very similar experience flying out of SAN on Saturday! When I told the TSA agent routing folks through the NOS that I was opting out, he actually told me that he was a microbiologist and knew all about radiation levels. I don't know if he was pulling my chain or not but he neither questioned, disputed, or reinforced my opting out. I stood by for about five minutes. Interestingly, toward the end of this time something started going wrong with the NOS and they had to start routing people through the WTMD. Oh, and also interesting, the lady behind me was drop dead gorgeous and wearing a low-cut top and they sent her through the WTMD for no apparent reason. This tells me the TSA is very sensitive to the charges that have been made about their use of the NOS.

Anyway, at a certain point the same TSA agent tells me if someone does not come soon in response to his repeated requests for a male assist, that he will do it himself so I can be on my way. I think that was BS because he clearly had a job to do routing folks into the NOS; he was clearly just trying to placate me and bide time.

Also during this time I mentioned that I could no longer see my belongings and he immediately had me move over to where I could see them - he did follow procedure here.

The initial pat-down was very professional. They kept my posessions with me the whole time, the agent told me in advance everything he was going to do, made sure I saw him change his gloves, and in fact did not go all the way up when he was patting up the insides of my legs. At the end I actually commended him for his professionalism. But then the gloves alarmed and I was told I would have to go to a private room for a resolution pat down with another TSO. I protested and said they could do it in the open. They refused and insisted I go to the private room. I acquiesced at that point, not wanting to cause myself further grief.

The pat-down in the room was very thorough. He *did* go all the way up, and all the way around my pelvis with quite a bit of pressure using the front of his hands. Although he did tell me everything he was going to do in advance and asked if I had any sensitive areas. It was invasive and annoying and clearly a violation of my fourth amendment rights, but other than insisting that the second screening be done in the private room they did follow their own procedures.

From now on I'll take the time to drive to SNA.

Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 15828644)

I am dismayed by the number of people here who will willingly accompany TSOs into a private room for the resolution screening. I will not, under any circumstances, permit this -- government clerks have no legal authority to require that I go anywhere. If they want to do their reso pat-down, they will do it right there, on the spot, in front of everyone, so that I can have assurance that there will be no funny business, no "tests," no theft and no harassment. This is one issue I'm willing to take to the mat.

Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 15828644)

I am dismayed by the number of people here who will willingly accompany TSOs into a private room for the resolution screening. I will not, under any circumstances, permit this -- government clerks have no legal authority to require that I go anywhere. If they want to do their reso pat-down, they will do it right there, on the spot, in front of everyone, so that I can have assurance that there will be no funny business, no "tests," no theft and no harassment. This is one issue I'm willing to take to the mat.

Originally Posted by Helen_J (Post 15828761)

So what happens if they say you have to go into the room and you say, "No"? What if they get a LEO and the LEO says you have to go to the room?

Seriously, what legal recourse do you have in this situation? I really do want to understand where we as passengers stand. I DO NOT want to leave the general screening area under ANY circumstances because I am afraid of being in a private room with these people. Whatever they need to do they can do in full view of everyone. I do not agree with their right to do it, in fact I think it's completely wrong, as well as stupid because it doesn't keep us any safer. But I won't stop them from strip searching me, if that's what they say they have to do. But I will NOT go into a private room for their extra search.

But, if I'm that insistent, what will happen? Will I be arrested? Detained? What will happen?

Honestly, I'm terrified of flying because of this whole security situation. I'm terrified to being told I have to go into the private room. I have nightmares about it before upcoming flights.

Any serious knowledge about what can happen to a passenger who refuses to go to the private room?

Originally Posted by Helen_J (Post 15828761)

So what happens if they say you have to go into the room and you say, "No"? What if they get a LEO and the LEO says you have to go to the room?

Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 15828644)

I am dismayed by the number of people here who will willingly accompany TSOs into a private room for the resolution screening. I will not, under any circumstances, permit this -- government clerks have no legal authority to require that I go anywhere. If they want to do their reso pat-down, they will do it right there, on the spot, in front of everyone, so that I can have assurance that there will be no funny business, no "tests," no theft and no harassment. This is one issue I'm willing to take to the mat.

Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 15828904)

I will calmly and politely ask the LEO, "Under what authority?"

Well, I have more than most, as I'm a lawyer. I will explain to the LEO that, as a matter of law, the TSO's authority is limited to conducting an administrative search to screen out WEI. I am willing to submit to that search because I need to fly, but I do not consent to it and reserve all my legal rights. An administrative search does not permit me to be detained, nor does it permit me to be removed from a public area.

Either the LEO will agree with me, or arrest me for interfering with the screening process, at which point I am fully prepared to both defend the criminal charge and pursue the constitutional issue, to the Supreme Court if necessary.

I can't give you legal advice. My personal belief is that both the resolution screening and the current pat down exceed the constitutional limits of an administrative search and, as such, violate the 4th Amendment.

Under no circumstances would I ever agree to a strip search in this context. If a TSO insisted on it, I would call for a LEO. If the LEO refused to interfere, I would turn on my heel and exit the screening area.

Do an FT search on Phil Mocek. The answer is, there is no way to tell, but don't expect either TSA or airport LEOs to understand the law, or to follow it.

You have my sympathies. I don't share your fears because, as a lawyer, I feel prepared to deal with the consequences of refusing to have my rights reserved under the 4th Amendment compromised by TSA or the police.