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-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   Agents are being more friendly (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1164965-agents-being-more-friendly.html)

ElizabethConley Dec 28, 2010 9:38 am


Originally Posted by Wally Bird (Post 15536187)
Problem is unless your "belligerent behavior" involves actual assault, you won't be arrested. They'll make you miss your flight (that'll teach her !) and possibly impose an administrative fine of some sort. Might involve a LEO to participate in the game, do an NCIS check, give you a good talking to etc. etc. :rolleyes:

Declining to answer impertinent questions might get you into the above sort of trouble, but simply demurring politely probably won't. Unless you encounter one of the real TSA *****/*.


This is so tiresome. I'm rarely stopped by traffic cops because I am very careful to obey traffic laws. It's easy enough to go along to get along. The cops know full well which questions I don't have to answer, and they don't really push it. Cops are professionals, and even when they're being jerks it's clear they know where the limits are. When I go on base the gate guards are professionals too. Even the "rent a cops" on gate duty have reasonable standards of behavior to adhere to. (Think about it. For over thirty years I've come and gone from military bases without half the drama of going through a TSA checkpoint.)

These TSA checkpoints seem totally unregulated. There's so much wrong with the situation that it's a total crap shoot. I don't have to travel by air for a while, and I'm glad. Maybe a few boundaries will be defined for the TSA/air traveler before I have to deal with it again.

If the next congress doesn't fix this, they are so fired!


Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much (Post 15536214)
On the two or three occasions where the questions have started, my response has been, "I don't discuss my travel."

If that continues to work, then there's no problem. That is as it should be.

FliesWay2Much Dec 28, 2010 9:44 am


Originally Posted by ElizabethConley (Post 15536279)
If that continues to work, then there's no problem. That is as it should be.

It probably helps that I always use my brown official passport for official travel. Regardless, one has to assume that every question is designed to build a case to search you and/or to turn you over to the cops. They've got nothing but their culture to blame for earning this distrust from the American People.

TheRoadie Dec 28, 2010 9:49 am

You could be deaf - they won't have an ASL interpreter available. You could speak any of 200 languages they won't have an interpreter for. You could be mute and not able to answer except by writing it down. You could have Tourette's Syndrome and not trust yourself to speak in a way that wouldn't be misinterpreted as hostile.

TSA just has to quit engaging folks in conversation when they aren't fully prepared to enforce a (made-up) requirement to communicate with them.

jkhuggins Dec 28, 2010 9:56 am


Originally Posted by RichardKenner (Post 15536215)
I noticed that the TSA website doesn't say anything about what color of shirt I'm allowed to wear. Does that mean they've "achieved their goal of being vague about what is actually required"?

Well, it's not exactly about the color of one's shirt, but ... how many times have passengers gotten into "trouble" at an airport merely because of their shirt?

Ellie M Dec 28, 2010 9:57 am


Originally Posted by RichardKenner (Post 15536215)
I noticed that the TSA website doesn't say anything about what color of shirt I'm allowed to wear. Does that mean they've "achieved their goal of being vague about what is actually required"?

Yes, if they could stop you from flying based on the color of your shirt.

Wally Bird Dec 28, 2010 10:18 am


Originally Posted by Ellie M (Post 15536376)
Yes, if they could stop you from flying based on the color of your shirt.

Be worth it though for $240,000.
http://www.aclu.org/free-speech-raci...nation-charges

Personally I'd avoid smurf blue or jetblue er.. blue. You might be mistaken for an idiot.

RichardKenner Dec 28, 2010 10:37 am


Originally Posted by Ellie M (Post 15536376)
Yes, if they could stop you from flying based on the color of your shirt.

As you imply, they can't. But they also can't stop you for refusing to answer questions. And both of those are for exactly the same reasons: there's no law or regulation saying they can.

Wally Bird Dec 28, 2010 10:42 am


Originally Posted by RichardKenner (Post 15536626)
As you imply, they can't. But they also can't stop you for refusing to answer questions. And both of those are for exactly the same reasons: there's no law or regulation saying they can.

Would that that were the case but when did the absence of a law or regulation have any effect on a particular type of screener ?

They make stuff up y'know.

divemistressofthedark Dec 28, 2010 11:33 am


"I'm sorry. What was your question? What am I towing? Why nothing of course. Oh - 'going'? Why didn't you say so? You did? Oh my. Goodness, what a lovely coffee stain that is on your tie. It looks rather like a kitten. What were you saying? Do you think I can buy a Tylenol once I get past the checkpoint? Tylenol's safer than Aspirin I think. Do you? Oh my, there's a hole in my sock. People just don't darn socks anymore. I wonder why. It's more frugal, don't you think?"
^ Smart lady...

I just ask point blank if I'm required to answer the question. This puts them on notice that I'm going to provide info as required but won't be responding to anything like "How was your trip" or "How's the weather" with anything more than one syllable.

I don't consider these people my neighbors. I don't need to jawjack and be friendly with them. I resent them, and there's no reason for me to hide that fact, as long as I'm not overtly hostile.

(It does always slay me when they act miffed when I'm abrupt, as though I have some obligation to chitchat. Sorry, lady. If I weren't legally required to speak to you, I wouldn't be doing it at all.)

Ellie M Dec 28, 2010 11:39 am


Originally Posted by RichardKenner (Post 15536626)
As you imply, they can't. But they also can't stop you for refusing to answer questions. And both of those are for exactly the same reasons: there's no law or regulation saying they can.

There's also no law stating that they can stop you from flying for refusing to be patted down. The regulations only state that: "No individual may enter a sterile area or board an aircraft without submitting to the screening and inspection of his or her person and accessible property in accordance with the procedures being applied to control access to that area or aircraft under this subchapter." § 1540.101. And "No person may interfere with, assault, threaten, or intimidate screening personnel in the performance of their screening duties under this subchapter." § 1540.109

They don't specify the types of screening or any criteria in determining who can board a plane. It's all TSA SOP, which is unavailable to the public, unless they feel like making it available.

As an aside, reading the plain language of that regulation, is TSA violating its own regulation by not screening all ground personnel every time they enter the sterile area?

jak71454 Dec 28, 2010 1:11 pm

My point is that they should NOT be engaging in trivial conversation, they should be checking to see if the person's picture on the ID matches the person in front of them. They rarely do that. Jim

You want to go where? Dec 28, 2010 1:45 pm

I really like ElizabethConley's approach of responding to the question without actually saying anything.

Where are you traveling today?

Oh, I just love traveling, don't you? The excitement of going to the airport. . .and on and on with the nonsense patter until they move on to someone else or die of boredom. Don't let them get a word in edgewise, though. You really have to keep it up non-stop.

Bumblebee123 Dec 28, 2010 3:50 pm


Originally Posted by jak71454 (Post 15537519)
My point is that they should NOT be engaging in trivial conversation, they should be checking to see if the person's picture on the ID matches the person in front of them.

It's called interrogation, and by god you will answer their questions.

"Do you want to fly today?"

:confused::(

RichardKenner Dec 28, 2010 5:59 pm


Originally Posted by Ellie M (Post 15536968)
There's also no law stating that they can stop you from flying for refusing to be patted down.

A regulation that the law requires to be issued has the force of law for that purpose.


As an aside, reading the plain language of that regulation, is TSA violating its own regulation by not screening all ground personnel every time they enter the sterile area?
No, because the "procedure being applied" need not be the same for everybody.


Originally Posted by jak71454 (Post 15537519)
My point is that they should NOT be engaging in trivial conversation, they should be checking to see if the person's picture on the ID matches the person in front of them.

I disagree with that for a couple of reasons. First of all, people aren't machines. They do their job better if they find it interesting. If somebody finds it interesting to attempt to engage a passenger in small talk, I see nothing wrong with it so long as they respect a passenger's uninterest in replying in kind. And, you never know, it might elicit the kind of response that even an untrained person might consider suspicious.

Night Owl Dec 28, 2010 6:12 pm


Originally Posted by ElizabethConley (Post 15535937)
, "I'm sorry. What was your question? What am I towing? Why nothing of course. Oh - 'going'? Why didn't you say so? You did? Oh my. Goodness, what a lovely coffee stain that is on your tie. It looks rather like a kitten. What were you saying? Do you think I can buy a Tylenol once I get past the checkpoint? Tylenol's safer than Aspirin I think. Do you? Oh my, there's a hole in my sock. People just don't darn socks anymore. I wonder why. It's more frugal, don't you think?"

Sounds like Emily Littella from SNL :D


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