A bizarre thought to consider
 

I have not seen the TSO training manual for the new enhanced pat down, but it seems to me - and this is an assumption on my part - that there must be a section on 'Techniques for calming a child as you grope (sorry.. I meant 'pat down') them'

Just think on this for a moment - a government sponsored/funded document/training guide for groping a child 'quietly'

My head explodes when I think of this.

And worse? Such a section might NOT exist - meaning that NO thought was given to how a child might react. What type of individual would ignore the consequences of these actions?

Either way? My head goes pop.

It would be easy to make a cheap joke (e.g. see the Foreplay section) but I won't where children are concerned. It's just not funny.

How about this from a Los Angeles Times blogger who is offering instructions to parents:

Child pat-down: If a child is 12 or younger and unable to proceed through the body scanner alone or opts out, then he or she is subject to what the TSA calls "a modified pat-down" search. If the child is older than 12 and opts out of the scanner, he or she is subject to an "enhanced pat-down. " The TSA, citing security reasons, has not provided details on either type of pat-down. But the enhanced pat-down is widely understood to include closer examination of genital areas. It is unclear whether the modified pat-down includes the genital areas.

That said, if an alarm goes off during screening by the new scanner or regular metal detectors, any passenger will be subject to an enhanced pat-down (except for those 12 and younger, who get the modified pat-down).

How to prepare: I suggest parents explain to their kids all the procedures that they may encounter as they pass through security, including the possibility that they may be touched by TSA personnel as part of a pat-down. Parents won’t necessarily be with their kids as they pass through the scanner or get patted down.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov...nners-20101119

:mad: :mad:

I bet they get a little training or are watched at first.

Given how many times we've seen the word 'professional' thrown around by Pistole in the past week, I'm guessing they were probably told that health care 'professionals' face the same dilema all the time & to simply focus on the task & not be distracted by the crying, screaming, hysterial child they are traumatizing for life.

After all, it's for the child's own good, right? :mad: :mad: :mad:

I have patted down a lot of children and I can tell you that the feelings that you are expressing are adult emotions. None of them cried. With all due respect, the process means nothing to them unless they are taught otherwise. Young children have no sense of sexuality. A properly done patdown will not leave them feeling any thought of violation.

A perv comes up to a young child. He starts to "pat down", saying "don't worry kid, it's just like the TSA does at the airport..."

And your degree in child psychology is from what medical school? With due respect, you don't have the credentials to proclaim any such thing.

You mean outmoded concepts like respecting their own bodies, and good touching and bad touching? :rolleyes:

Are young children now officially described as "under-12?" I don't think I could deal rationally with what your opinion may be regarding the 12-14-year-old age group. :rolleyes:

I ran into one or two professionals expressing similar opinions during a long career as a teacher and administrator. I'll say no more. :mad:

Words escape me.

But eyecue is a TSA professional, it must be true.

Let me give it a try:

Any TSA screener who believes that he is also a competent child psychologist must be deranged. Few, if any, TSA employees have such competence (or, one might add, any real competence).

Bruce

Yeah, that's exactly what I want to teach my kids. "It's okay to let strangers touch you, since it's not really a violation." :rolleyes:

Mike

Sounds just like the rationalization a pedophile uses. What you are actually saying is that it is fair to exploit their innocence.

So as long as they don't realize what is being done to them is wrong, it is OK?

Might want to take a look at the Center for Missing and Exploited Children's website.

Would you consider this proper? Just curious.

Mike

I don't think your employer will like it when this statement ends up in the news.

Wow.

Do you realize that pedophiles have use this argument to justify why they touch children inappropriately? "It's a victimless crime"

Wow.

Just wow.

I hope to hell you don't represent the STUPIDITY of the TSA. My daughter was molested by one of my wife's coworkers, and let me assure you your groping does mean something to a 7 year old. She was fondled, and not even to the degree that you allegedly reserve for +12 year olds. That ahole was convicted and got a 15 year sentence. Think of that when a father breaks your jaw. This crap will not stand much longer.

I guess we have now, as a society, given our blessing to creating "professional" child molesters who "do it for a living".

Eyecue, why don't you tell me your badge number and what airport you work in. Next time I travel back home I will make a point to swing by and arrest you myself.

WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS ILLEGAL. I KNOW YOU ARE JUST DOING WHAT YOU ARE TOLD BUT THEN AGAIN, THE NAZIS IN GERMANY ALL SAID THE SAME THING.

It is called the 4th Amendment and no matter what your superiors in the TSA say you are not allowed to search people in an unreasonable manner when a less intrusive solution is available. You have a civic DUTY to stop molesting children and be less intrusive in your pat downs. When you come across somebody who you really suspect might be a terrorist give them the full nine yards, but with everybody else stop violating their rights.

I know for a FACT that many children don't cry when being molested. Whether they cry depends on many factors such as pain, force, or fear. They often don't really understand what is happening, but they are left feeling shamed and guilty.

As for them having no sense of sexuality, clearly you don't know many children well. A lot of kids discover their bodies pretty early even if they don't understand it.

I'm guessing this what the smurfs were told in their 'enhanced pat down' class so that the few of them who may have questioned whether this was ok would shut up.

Again, you come up with another justification for your employer's illegal activites.

When are you going to get it - what you and your agency does is illegal, immoral, and, in the end, will lead to you being, at best unemployed, and at worst under arrest.

Please be so kind as to pre-groom your children. The molesters at the TSA have limited time and can't properly ply them with candy and video games.

Have you read much of this persons statements and responses?

You have stated that you were a LEO for some years.

Under what circumstances did you leave law enforcement?

My first post here on FT. All I can say is,

WOW :eek:

This whole thing is a matter of opinions. When a person whether it is a child or adult, is patted down, the result is dependant on the intent of the officer. Evereyone on here is screaming sexual assault and that is not the intent of the patdown. A properly done patdown does not constitute a sexual assault. There is no lingering or fondling done.

I'll make sure to add this to the growing list of TSA justification for groping children.

After 10 years I left law enforcement because our salaries where frozen due to the economy and there was no room for upward motion. I resigned with dignity as a senior patrol officer and received honors and went onto the fire service and ems.

Your words make a chill run down my spine. You talk like, and make excuses like a pedophile does, imagining the child doesn't mind being molested.

If you look at the activity in the terrorist theater, the use of children to attain the goal of terrorism is increasing. There have been two cases that have involved the use of children estimated to be around 4 and 5 years old to further their cause. To that end, the children were killed in the act.

You are incorrect. Sexual assault is defined by the victim, not the perpetrator.

If you are in the state of New York and you are performing pat downs on people - especially children under 17 - you are committing sexual assault.

If you are performing pat downs without the express consent of the gropee, you are committing sexual assault.

If you are arrested you will be placed on the sex offender registry.

Eyecue,

You've said that children are unaffected by pat downs. How do you know this? How do you know what happens after people leave your line? How do you know that isn't affecting them later in life. How about the teenagers? How do you know people won't replay that moment in their heads over and over? Simply saying it wasn't your intent is insufficent.

It seems your willing to acknoledge that some people feel violated. The TSA's action is causing this feeling. Isn't that enough reason to stop?

JBC78

"Properly done." That's one key point, isn't it? With your extensive LEO experience, you can do that, but you can't vouch for every one of the thousands of other TSA employees, can you?

An absolutely unprecedented cross-section of Americans are to be subjected to X-Rays and/or the enhanced search. It's probably the largest conscious irradiation of a population in human history.

The door is open for abuse, mistakes, incorrect assumptions, false as well as true accusations, and a growing outrage that is spilling up to the politicians - N.B. Secretary of State Clinton has now weighed in.

IMHO TSA has jumped the shark.

Whatever helps you to sleep at night, man.

What you're doing is scarring children for life.

Next time you travel through Denver, look for this man:
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:X...tional.jpg&t=1

So you can do anything you want as long as your intent is good? Was putting the Japanese in internment camps during World War II just fine because the government had the good intent to protect its citizens? You can justify any action by saying the intention is good, but that doesn't make it so.

Florida law on sexual assault (can't speak for any other state) says nothing about the intent of the fondler. The only exception given in the law is for an examination done for a bona fide medical purpose.

All TSA screeners are essentially putting their entire future at risk by doing these gropes.

If just one case sticks that screener is on the sex offender list for the rest of their life. It will be very difficult to find a job. It will very difficult to find a place to live.

I actually feel sorry for the poor groper in that picture that has been flashed for the past few days - that guy is going to be stigmatized for the rest of his life.

Haven't checked the laws of any other state, but this is absolutely NOT the case in California.

See this thread or this post in particular, if you don't feel like looking it up yourself.

In order to prosecute, you have to be able to show lewd intent.

Four years ago, my then 11 year old son was selected for a pat down while traveling with his younger brother and my wife. As my wife describes it, as she complained the first response was DY...? and with further complaints the pat down became more thorough (granted - her description, I wasn't there). The TSA clerk then asked my son where the bomb in his backpack was.

My son didn't cry or say anything then - no, he saved the crying for the plane - and then was withdrawn during the trip (his words later to me - "why did they do that to me? why did they think I was a terrorist?"). The younger boy was also upset because he didn't want to be taken away. Now, both have been reluctant to fly (because of TSA checkpoints) and told me this weekend that they will NOT fly if it means the TSA touches them or sees them naked. I'm not claiming my kids were psychologically damaged for life by the TSA, but an event four years ago had an impact. - they both remember the event vividly.

My points in bringing up this old story? 1) A child not crying or speaking up doesn't mean there isn't damage - and not all potential damage is sexual 2) Parents can speak up but see their child pay the price (we know now we should have escalated) 3) I'm sure someone could tell me that this wasn't SOP or was an isolated incident - but when there are humans involved (who may or may not be qualified) there are always exceptions and 4) With enhanced pat downs this gets worse.