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-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   IAH TSA: Interrogating A Child? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1086782-iah-tsa-interrogating-child.html)

NoClu May 19, 2010 8:06 am


Originally Posted by elgringito (Post 13984516)
On what basis would you automatically assume the crying child had a "loving parent" accompanying them? Similarly, on what basis would you automatically assume the questioner in fact proceded to "pester" the crying child?

I am not a parent, but one of the last things I would assume would cause an 11 year old crying would be the "stress" of travel.

What would make more sense to you, adding to the "stress" by involving a LEO without asking the child what was bothering them or immediately holding the traveller up to await involvement of a LEO? If the TSA representative had done that - the indignation on this board would probably have been worse.

The TSA workers should have kept their attention on looking for WEI. Why ASSume anything nefarious (except for the organizational bias that everything is nefarious). Any number of things could upset an 11 year old girl. The "stress" of travel nearly brings me to tears (mostly of anger) every time I step foot in an airport. There was no call for interrogation, no call to notify a LEO, no call to detain or delay the girl and her mother.


Originally Posted by elgringito (Post 13983705)
And if it was your child that was being abducted or even being improperly transported by a disgruntled spouse or guardian, would you still think it was so incorrect? Too many teachers face too many parents with a hair trigger on raising improper action complaints and this sounds an awful lot like a similar situation.

Anything in the name for Security!!!!! What if! What if! chicken little cried.

Officer, why did you pull me over?
Well, you might have been carrying drugs, contemplating speeding, texting while driving, or even might run a stop sign at some point...I just don't know, I'm just abundantly cautious.

Trollkiller May 19, 2010 8:15 am


Originally Posted by doober (Post 13984714)
If you read the OP's post, you will note that the TSA apparently did so:

and then separated the child from the mother.

Further, you don't ask a child why she is crying. Instead, make a statement: "You must be very sad because you are crying" and let the child take it from there.

So now you want them to be counselors? It is perfectly acceptable to ask a child why they are crying, even if you are wearing a faux police uniform.

The OP stated the child was kept in line of sight with the mother. The mother could have regained total control of the child at any time.

The TSOs did the right thing by checking on the welfare of the child before escalating it to a LEO. The child was fine but sad. The child and mother were allowed to continue on their trip without further delay.

The OP should be grateful that someone cared enough to check on the welfare of the sister.

No where in the OP's story did they state the TSOs were rude, overbearing, abusive or licking their lips in hopes of the big catch.

The TSOs simply took the girl to the side so she would feel safe if there was a problem. They asked her why she was crying and when they found out the reason was minor, they sent the girl on the way.

I hope if my 12 year old daughter is crying at the airport that someone has the guts to find out why. I would hate to hear "we saw her crying but we did not want to interfere" in response to the question of "how did the kidnap victim get past you?"

clrankin May 19, 2010 8:17 am

Had I been the parent and had a child separated from me in this manner, I think I'd be the one asking for a law enforcement response. I'd want to know why TSA was detaining the child without cause. I'd also suggest to the LEO that TSA's actions are tantamount to kidnapping-- or, at the least, false imprisonment or custodial interference.

TSA folks that overstep their bounds in this type of situation or any others should not be tolerated. Law enforcement exists at the checkpoints for a reason. Perhaps if a few TSOs were arrested for overstepping their bounds and committing crimes, some other TSOs would think twice before doing the same.

jkhuggins May 19, 2010 8:20 am


Originally Posted by elgringito (Post 13984516)
On what basis would you automatically assume the crying child had a "loving parent" accompanying them? Similarly, on what basis would you automatically assume the questioner in fact proceded to "pester" the crying child?

Innocent until proven guilty. On what basis would you assume that the crying child is the victim of a crime?


Originally Posted by elgringito (Post 13984516)
I am not a parent, but one of the last things I would assume would cause an 11 year old crying would be the "stress" of travel.

Well, I am a parent of a 9-year-old, and right off the top of my head I can name a number of reasons that my daughter might be crying in an airport. Frankly, my daughter can start crying at the drop of a hat. I'm trying to teach her to be a little more easy-going, but it ain't happening.


Originally Posted by elgringito (Post 13984516)
What would make more sense to you, adding to the "stress" by involving a LEO without asking the child what was bothering them or immediately holding the traveller up to await involvement of a LEO? If the TSA representative had done that - the indignation on this board would probably have been worse.

I have no problem with talking to the child, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE PARENT OR GUARDIAN. Pulling the child aside is inappropriate, full stop.


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13984837)
The OP stated the child was kept in line of sight with the mother. The mother could have regained total control of the child at any time.

Obviously, the mother did not believe that she had such control ... otherwise, the complaint would not have been registered.

Trollkiller May 19, 2010 8:23 am


Originally Posted by NoClu (Post 13984771)
The TSA workers should have kept their attention on looking for WEI. Why ASSume anything nefarious (except for the organizational bias that everything is nefarious). Any number of things could upset an 11 year old girl. The "stress" of travel nearly brings me to tears (mostly of anger) every time I step foot in an airport. There was no call for interrogation, no call to notify a LEO, no call to detain or delay the girl and her mother.

I don't think they assumed anything nefarious or they would have involved a LEO. I think they assumed that a child was crying in such a manner it alarmed at least on of the TSOs enough for them to ask what was wrong.

Once finding out everything was fine the child and mother were on their way.

Good job by the TSOs for resolving the issue without delay or intimidation.

bocastephen May 19, 2010 8:28 am

OP: see that the child is taught the next time someone (TSA or not) grabs them and pulls them away from the parent, their first response should be a hard violent kick in the groin directed at the person or people who is pulling them away or interrogating them. An 11yr old will get away with it and the idiots will learn the lesson they deserve.

elgringito May 19, 2010 8:28 am


Originally Posted by NoClu (Post 13984771)
The TSA workers should have kept their attention on looking for WEI. Why ASSume anything nefarious (except for the organizational bias that everything is nefarious). Any number of things could upset an 11 year old girl. The "stress" of travel nearly brings me to tears (mostly of anger) every time I step foot in an airport. There was no call for interrogation, no call to notify a LEO, no call to detain or delay the girl and her mother.

Attitudes like this are what leads to a good samaritan lying in the street ignored. After all there may be a logical explanation and it was just a homeless man lying in the street or just a crying 11 year old in an airport - better to mind you own business and avoid the hassle or second guessing, right? I would prefer a concerned citizen be proactive, but then again I have a bit of "chicken little", to use your words, in my nature.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...88-504083.html


A surveillance video obtained by The New York Post shows Hugo Alfredo Tale-Yax lying face down for more than an hour on a Jamaica, Queens sidewalk.

clrankin May 19, 2010 8:39 am


Originally Posted by elgringito (Post 13984920)
Attitudes like this are what leads to a good samaritan lying in the street ignored. After all there may be a logical explanation and it was just a homeless man lying in the street or just a crying 11 year old in an airport - better to mind you own business and avoid the hassle or second guessing, right? I would prefer a concerned citizen be proactive, but then again I have a bit of "chicken little", to use your words, in my nature.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...88-504083.html

There's absolutely nothing wrong with stressing a "mind your own business" attitude when it comes to government agents needlessly interfering with someone's travel plans at a checkpoint. The point here isn't that someone was helping (I think we can all agree that helping is a good thing), it's that it was on duty government agents helping, and that it was done in an inappropriate manner. When it comes to the government and its minions, they are rarely ever there to "help" and almost always have some hidden agenda-- especially in situations like these.

My feelings toward what happened would likely be very, very different had this story been about a fellow passenger sitting down with mother and child and helping calm the crying while waiting to board at the gate. But then, this scenario doesn't really present much of a story outside of the "human interest" factor.

elgringito May 19, 2010 8:40 am


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 13984875)
Innocent until proven guilty. On what basis would you assume that the crying child is the victim of a crime?

Well, I am a parent of a 9-year-old, and right off the top of my head I can name a number of reasons that my daughter might be crying in an airport. Frankly, my daughter can start crying at the drop of a hat. I'm trying to teach her to be a little more easy-going, but it ain't happening.

I have no problem with talking to the child, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE PARENT OR GUARDIAN. Pulling the child aside is inappropriate, full stop.

Since I cannot recall in my 40 years of travel seeing an 11 year old crying in an airport, my first inclination would be to wonder what was wrong with the child. (That is opposed to the screaming and tantrums of the misbehaved 3 to 7 year olds I have frequently seen.)

In questioning a child or spouse suspected of abuse, are the potential perpretators or the abuse present for the questioning (and the parent was nearby in the case discussed by the OP) or is the suspected victim questioned separately in the expectation the response is more likely to be honest? Which makes more sense?

doober May 19, 2010 8:41 am


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13984837)
The OP stated the child was kept in line of sight with the mother. The mother could have regained total control of the child at any time.

Had the mother done so, she would have had the LEOs called on her for "interfering with screening".


Originally Posted by elgringito (Post 13984976)
Since I cannot recall in my 40 years of travel seeing an 11 year old crying in an airport, my first inclination would be to wonder what was wrong with the child. (That is opposed to the screaming and tantrums of the misbehaved 3 to 7 year olds I have frequently seen.)

In questioning a child or spouse suspected of abuse, are the potential perpretators or the abuse present for the questioning (and the parent was nearby in the case discussed by the OP) or is the suspected victim questioned separately in the expectation the response is more likely to be honest? Which makes more sense?

That's fine for LE. Screeners are NOT LE.

elgringito May 19, 2010 8:49 am


Originally Posted by clrankin (Post 13984971)
There's absolutely nothing wrong with stressing a "mind your own business" attitude when it comes to government agents needlessly interfering with someone's travel plans at a checkpoint. The point here isn't that someone was helping (I think we can all agree that helping is a good thing), it's that it was on duty government agents helping, and that it was done in an inappropriate manner. When it comes to the government and its minions, they are rarely ever there to "help" and almost always have some hidden agenda-- especially in situations like these.

My feelings toward what happened would likely be very, very different had this story been about a fellow passenger sitting down with mother and child and helping calm the crying while waiting to board at the gate. But then, this scenario doesn't really present much of a story outside of the "human interest" factor.

Inappriate manner is your interpretation - not the interpretation of all others and obviously not mine. A government agent should not be mindful of the same situations that might concern a private citizen? Why? Would your indignation be the same if a teacher or guidance counsellor was asking the question and not a TSA representative and if the answer is no, why?

As far as "... they are rarely ever there to "help" and almost always have some hidden agenda ..." I do not share your cynicism and certainly hope you are the exception. TSA representatives are human beings, earning a living and are entitled to same respect as everyone else - perhaps a pollyana view but one I believe in.


Originally Posted by doober (Post 13984986)
That's fine for LE. Screeners are NOT LE.

So in answer to the question by an earlier poster, you would have escalated the simple question of why are you crying to an LEO and really mucked up the situation and added to the "stress" and embarassment.

DevilDog438 May 19, 2010 8:55 am


Originally Posted by elgringito (Post 13985062)
So in answer to the question by an earlier poster, you would have escalated the simple question of why are you crying to an LEO and really mucked up the situation and added to the "stress" and embarassment.

Once again - where is the legal authority for a TSO to separate a parent and child for any purpose other than walking through the WTMD, WBI and performance of a secondary inspection?

elgringito May 19, 2010 9:03 am


Originally Posted by DevilDog438 (Post 13985079)
Once again - where is the legal authority for a TSO to separate a parent and child for any purpose other than walking through the WTMD, WBI and performance of a secondary inspection?

Now that's a good question that I missed in reading earlier posts. It would be interesting to know if the TSA representative in fact stepped out of bounds. If so, then disciplinary action would be appropriate and in the future actions in a similar scenarion will be to "mind your own business" or subject the traveller to interrogation by LEO's. Personally, I would think most people would prefer the scenario discussed by the OP to the delay awaiting an LEO and the subsequent interrogation by the LEO - I would.

DevilDog438 May 19, 2010 9:07 am


Originally Posted by elgringito (Post 13985137)
Personally, I would think most people would prefer the scenario discussed by the OP to the delay awaiting an LEO and the subsequent interrogation by the LEO - I would.

Personally, I know my rights in an encounter with a LEO, and know that I have legal recourse available to me if the LEO pushes into territory that violates those rights.

TSA, on the other hand, has proven, time and again, that they do not feel required or compelled to respect the limitations imposed on them by the Constitution or the authorizing laws that created their agency. In addition, it has been shown, time and again, that travelers have very little recourse in getting TSA corrected on inappropriate behaviors.

doober May 19, 2010 9:11 am


Originally Posted by elgringito (Post 13985062)
So in answer to the question by an earlier poster, you would have escalated the simple question of why are you crying to an LEO and really mucked up the situation and added to the "stress" and embarassment.

If I were a screener I would have ignored the crying - TSA sees crying kids every day. If I believed anything was truly amiss, yes, I would have called LE.

As jkhuggins said, kids often cry at the drop of a hat - you're just not seeing it because as you admit you are not a parent.


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