Repeat TSA Stupidity
 

There are rumors floating around certain circles that TSA didn't learn their lesson regarding pitot tubes not being an appropriate substitute for a ladder at ORD in 2008.

Apparently at DFW, a total of ten American Eagle ATR's were recently removed from service due to damage to the pitot tubes. After an investigation, it was learned that a group of TSA agents thought they would try to test American Eagle's security protocols by trying to gain entry to the planes by climbing through the cockpit windows. The pitot tubes were used for hand and foot bars, thus damaging said tubes. Ultimately, upwards of ten TSA agents were fired for participation in these activities.

Amazing, if this is true. Who needs terrorists, when planes are knocked out of action by our own "crack" security force?

With a couple of pilots I know, getting fired would be the least of their troubles.

I wish I could say "unbelievable!" but unfortunately, this is the TSA, above the law they believe, so nothing they do can be "unbelievable."

Facts? Source for this? Anyone? Or just "rumors floating around certain circles"?

Well, Halls120 does run with the big dogs and if he says something it is usually pretty accurate.

Those pitot tubes just damage themselves, when any TSA inspector looks at them. A design flaw, I suspect. :rolleyes:

The facts are that this has happened before. Honestly we have reached the point where anything within reason needs to be disproved by the TSA as opposed to vice versa out of efficiency. There have been so many things that are just to absurd to be true...that turn out to be true...for it to be any other way.

I'm one of them.

TSA staff do not believe that they are "above the law." Rather, they believe that they are the law. There's a difference!

Bruce

OK let me start by saying I'm not defending someone using pitot tubes or static probes for handles or steps (by the way, the probes under the windows appear to be static probes, the pitot tubes are located just behind the radome on the ATR). But there is another possibility at work here. Since there have been several airworthiness directives aimed at pitot tubes recently, could that have been why 10 ATR's were taken out of service? Or part of a required inspection? Also, I don't believe the cockpit windows of an ATR42-72 are able to be opened in the first place. Here are 2 different pictures of an ATR flight deck showing all the cockpit windows.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Binte...e2f67b65502760

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Linea...e2f67b65502760

And a TSA aviation security inspector in Chicago was doing a "stress test" service bulletin of the temperature probe of 13 American Eagle SAAB 340s?

An employee who cannot be identified, out of fear for his/her job. I clearly identified it as an unsubstantiated rumor, so you can calm down now. :D

But the way you titled the thread implies fact.

adressing your points
-then there would likely be more than 10, and I doubt they would all be in the same location
-I agree, although I am wondering if this might also relate to what I believe is the AOA probe under the captains window.
-are any of those related to the ATR series aircraft? I can find directives related to windows, fuel, and chafed wiring on the aircraft from the last year, but nothing on Pitot Tubes
-i don't think TSA trains on which pilot windows do and do not open

If you are only reading the title of threads without the substance of the posts, that's your problem, not mine.

I clearly stated that what I was posting was a rumor. If someone can post something to rebut the rumor, I'll gladly confess my sin and ask the post be removed. :D

True you did clearly state it in the post, but the title already plants the seed that the rumor must be the way it is.

While this would be incredibly stupid if it happened, the OP says it is a rumor and there's no substantiaion at this point.

Weren't there some maintenance reports posted on the other TSA incident involving the RJs?

Forward cabin door version of ATR has an escape window as well as overhead escape hatch in the cockpit. Standard door versions of ATR have just the escape hatch. Climbing the pitot tubes could be used to access either or both.

http://www.brandweerschiphol.nl/inst...r_42_72_02.pdf

Very calm - thanks though :) It just always helps to have some facts when you post something in this particular forum that causes the natives to start drooling :) Keeps them on the right track.

I'm not doubting your story for a second, just like seeing something in writing to substantiate these things. Call it my curious side :)

Whether the report is based in fact or not it seems that unqualified people should be escorted if they are going to be around aircraft. There are several areas on most aircraft that can cause severe injury to the unknowing along with the distinct possilbity of causing unseen damage to the aircraft thereby threatening those who would fly on that craft.

No one should be allowed to approach the aircraft without the owners knowledge or permission.

What AWD's have been issued on ATR pitot tubes?

Airbus yes.

I am searching for verification as we "speak."

Could be a required inspection too. I've looked through some AD's.

And to a previous post, I think you're right, it's an AOA probe looking at the shape of it. The pitot tubes are in a different location.

For this aircraft?
No?
Stop trying to justify this...

Stop assuming with no facts to accompany the rumor.

+1 to star. Halls' info is fairly accurate. ;)

I can't wait until this hits the Dallas Morning News/Dead Fishwrapper or whatever MSM outlet.


#TSAfail

They've had a turbulent few months.

Did he change the title? Cuz I read "Repeat TSA Stupidity". Well, we know that's often fact, but otherwise, it's an incredibly vague statement. Sorta like "my flight got delayed." Happens often and doesn't tell you much.

It's up to you to read the actual post to find the details. There, he clearly says it's an unsubstantiated rumor. It's a rumor. You believe it or you don't. Certainly doesn't help your credibility or cause if that's what you're trying to nitpick on.

Saying "my flight was delayed" and then saying the facts behind it is different than stating "repeat TSA stupidity" and then saying that "rumor is..."

So what is the TSA rumor mill saying if anything about this?

No rumors at all. The first I had heard of this was reading it on here this morning.

Fair enough. Something will probably turn up if it's true.

And if it does turn out to be true, I'll be right on here saying how dumb it is for anyone to be grabbing a hold of any probes on the side of an aircraft (took the TSO cap off here, now speaking as a pilot).

Is your brethren aviation security inspector still working for the TSA in ORD?

Don't know. I don't work at ORD.

Perhaps I can keep my fingers crossed and I'll run into him in the aircraft operating area. Oh and give you a hint, the reaction of the TSA in Chicago was to threaten American Eagle with a multi-hundred-thousand dollar fine for the aviation security inspector getting close enough to the SAAB 340s.

Not exactly an apology, and not exactly a "he is no longer employed with the TSA".

You want respect, earn it first by correcting your agency's mistakes.

IIRC, they were ERJ135/140/145 jet aircraft that the TSI at ORD damaged.

I have checked with our Office of Security Operations and there have been no such incidents at DFW as the one mentioned in this thread.

Thanks,

Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team

And we should believe you and the Office of Security Operations why? Of course such an incident is going to be denied if it's already been made somewhat public.

It's a real shame when someone takes a "Vega-Matic" to their credibility.

This was cross posted on another discussion board and resulted in the following...

All we've seen on this forum is an unsubstantiated rumor of an event that, to me, stretches credibility. "Upwards of ten TSA agents were fired...." Does this mean all of the inspectors in the Fort Worth office went out in a group and simultaneously climbed on the planes in "formation" like Blue Angels pilots? Or, did they just plan to do it individually during their respective shifts? Don't you think that out of 10+ people, at least one of them would have suggested that it wasn't a good idea (based on the ORD incident and/or TSA policy/training that was, hopefully, instituted following the ORD incident)?

Now, I realize that there are some here for whom no amount of evidence will convince them that anything that happens isn't TSA's fault. I don't think that attitude helps the cause. It plays well with the choir, but it results in the majority of people to consider what you say as the rantings of a lunatic.