FlyerTalk Forums
1  2  3  4 
Page 2 of 4
Go to

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   Behavioral detection gone awry (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1037925-behavioral-detection-gone-awry.html)

tsadude1 Jan 10, 2010 3:47 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mats (Post 13151786)
A good friend of mine just had a terrible experience at Detroit. She is a Midwesterner living on the East Coast, a highly-educated professional, attractive, usually well-dressed, and mild-mannered. She was visiting her parents and flying home. Nonstop, domestic flight. She did not have any problems with Secure Flight or watch lists.

She is a frequent flyer, and has taken the same trip many times. Her name, demeanor, accent, clothing, etc. are unmistakably American.

She is not prone to exaggeration, and doesn't usually complain about airport security. She happened to mention this to me because she knows that I fly a lot.

After uneventful check-in and ID inspection, she went to get in line for the x-ray and metal detector.

A BDO pulled her out of line, and she was taken to an interview room. She was told that her behavior "aroused suspicion" (perhaps not in those words.) The BDO and another agent conference called some TSA phone number. They asked her repeatedly about the nature of her trip, how often she'd lived at each address, the nature of her work, her father's birthdate, her mother's maiden name, and... my favorite... the last four digits of her FATHER's social security number. (She said, "How would I know that?")

She was eventually released and allowed to fly. I don't know if she had selectee screening, but I think that's probably likely.

I used to think that behavioral profiling made some sort of sense. But now I'm reconsidering. The best I can imagine is that the BDO's are new, newly trained, and want to test out their skills.

They may have actually picked her just because it would be less work: she's young, articulate, etc... so the background check would be simpler and they could act as if they're doing something. (In random screening, it's easier to pick the guy with a small bag and light clothing.)

She's not a complainer, and just wanted to get home. But I find this incident troubling. Of course I wasn't there, perhaps my friend had completely gone nuts and was acting erratically (I strongly doubt that.) There may have been a specific threat about young women traveling alone, as there was prior to Pan Am 103 (I doubt that as well... and there are a lot of women traveling alone through Detroit.)

I hope that this was a one-time incident.

I dont think that your friend is giving you the whole truth. These are questions asked by STSOs when you have no ID what so ever

Spiff Jan 10, 2010 3:49 pm

Since I don't need any TSA employee's permission to fly, such questions will be ignored and then an invitation to go to hell and summon the GSC for the airline I'm on will follow. For bonus points, said TSA employees are welcome to summon law enforcement and look even stupider.

halls120 Jan 10, 2010 4:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 13153569)
The typical traveler has no government credentials to pull out. What would you suggest to those of us in that position?

The critical key is to make sure you are prepared to miss your flight. That way, they lose that ability to intimidate. Also - be unfailingly polite and non-adversarial. If they start to raise their voice/voices, lower yours. This is an incredibly effective technique in controlling an interaction - especially when you are being accosted by an inexperienced and poorly trained TSO.

Next, I would get out a pen and paper, and methodically take as good notes as you possibly can. If you are prevented from doing so, ask for a LEO to be summoned immediately.

At that point, answer any question you wish to answer, and always be completely honest in your response. If you think the question is inappropriate or you do not wish to respond, state as much, decline to answer, and ask for a supervisor AND an LEO to be summoned.

At this point, the BDO will likely back down and allow you to go on your way. :) If they don't, hold your ground. Continue to avoid escalating the confrontation - politely refuse to answer questions, but ask if you are being detained under what grounds you are being detained, and if you have a lawyer, ask for the opportunity to contact him/her.

Batmanuel Jan 10, 2010 4:26 pm

I agree with tsadude... those questions, and especially the "conference call", are only used when somebody doesn't have an ID.

Mats Jan 10, 2010 4:32 pm

I asked about ID. She had a valid driver's license, which she presented prior to entering the queue. There was no difficulty with her ID inspection or boarding pass.

MrAndy1369 Jan 10, 2010 5:10 pm

I agree with the couple others that this seems like SOP for those who show invalid/no ID. However, if she really did bring ID (which I'm not doubting--I believe her) then that is seriously sad. It could happen to me next. :( Even worse, I'm Deaf, so communicating would be very hard.

I strongly recommend you refer your friend to TSA's Got Feedback. Have her be specific, try to mention names/appearances if possible, and additionally, advise her to write both her Congressperson and the airline, threatening an end to business travelling through said airline if this kind of behavior by TSA is going to become more and more common.

bdschobel Jan 10, 2010 5:28 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by halls120 (Post 13153840)
The critical key is to make sure you are prepared to miss your flight. That way, they lose that ability to intimidate. Also - be unfailingly polite and non-adversarial. If they start to raise their voice/voices, lower yours. This is an incredibly effective technique in controlling an interaction - especially when you are being accosted by an inexperienced and poorly trained TSO....

I totally agree. Also, be prepared for the standard question, "Why are you getting so upset?" What's so infuriating about this question is that it's asked regardless of whether or not you really are upset. The purpose is to make you upset! Don't take the bait. Just respond: "I'm not upset. I don't know why you are asking me that." It won't stop the questioning, but it will help a little when you recount it to the real LEO who inevitably will be called.

Bruce

tfar Jan 10, 2010 5:36 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy1369 (Post 13154246)
I agree with the couple others that this seems like SOP for those who show invalid/no ID. However, if she really did bring ID (which I'm not doubting--I believe her) then that is seriously sad. It could happen to me next. :( Even worse, I'm Deaf, so communicating would be very hard.

I strongly recommend you refer your friend to TSA's Got Feedback. Have her be specific, try to mention names/appearances if possible, and additionally, advise her to write both her Congressperson and the airline, threatening an end to business travelling through said airline if this kind of behavior by TSA is going to become more and more common.

Interesting thread and an interesting perspective. I doubt they have interpreters trained in sign language. I also wonder how the rights of a blind person would be preserved who couldn't see what they are doing with your luggage. They could theoretically plant stuff in there.

One advantage in this particular situation might be that you could demand that EVERYTHING takes place in writing. That would take a really long time and it would leave a paper trace. They'd most likely not want either and let you go.

Till

eyecue Jan 10, 2010 9:08 pm

I dont believe the story. It is anecdotal. There are just too many "friend of mine, or friend of my second cousins uncle, etc."
The methods as described dont meet with modis operandi of the BDO's.

GUWonder Jan 10, 2010 10:06 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batmanuel (Post 13153983)
I agree with tsadude... those questions, and especially the "conference call", are only used when somebody doesn't have an ID.

That is false. It's also sometimes done when someone does present valid ID but the TSA or TSA-approved think the passenger is presenting an ID that does not look like the passenger or may be a fake or fraudulently-acquired ID. It's also sometimes done when the FBI has been called up.

Superguy Jan 10, 2010 10:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 13155551)
I dont believe the story. It is anecdotal. There are just too many "friend of mine, or friend of my second cousins uncle, etc."
The methods as described dont meet with modis operandi of the BDO's.

But as we know, procedures vary from airport to airport. TSA has stated as such. :rolleyes:

A lot of TSA's evidence is anecdotal and too many "my contractor said ..." or "it's SSI." Beginning to understand how we feel?

Mats Jan 10, 2010 10:18 pm

eyecue,
I respect what you're saying, but I have to say that this particular friend is particularly sane and unlikely to exaggerate. She is highly-educated, professional, and I've known her for 10 years.

Yes, there are always people who embellish their stories, or even fabricate them. This is not one of those cases.

AlexNJ Jan 10, 2010 10:47 pm

Spiff - when requesting the GSC, don't forget about what response I got from TSA at Bangor, ME - "We don't call the airline." and when I asked for the FSD - "He's not coming down and he doesn't have to."

oldjonesy Jan 10, 2010 11:17 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mats (Post 13151786)
... my favorite... the last four digits of her FATHER's social security number. (She said, "How would I know that?")

Maybe that was asked because if she DID know it then it would be suspicious?

Or am I giving them more credit than they deserve?

Ari Jan 11, 2010 12:14 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 13155551)
I dont believe the story. It is anecdotal.

Most stories are anecdotal. :confused:


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:56 pm.
1  2  3  4 
Page 2 of 4
Go to


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.