FlyerTalk Forums
1  2 
Page 1 of 2
Go to

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   Another poorly redacted SSI document. (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1034046-another-poorly-redacted-ssi-document.html)

Trollkiller Dec 31, 2009 7:26 pm

Another poorly redacted SSI document.
 
http://www.mspb.gov/netsearch/viewdo...cation=ACROBAT

I thought they fixed that problem.

Special thanks to Cryptome.

http://cryptome.org/0001/tsa-ssi-02.htm

I am still reading it so I don't know if there is anything juicy yet.

bdschobel Dec 31, 2009 7:31 pm

Wonderful! I so much enjoy watching idiots trying to keep secrets that shouldn't be secret in the first place -- and are "secret" only because the same idiots said they are! What irony.

Bruce

AngryMiller Dec 31, 2009 7:32 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13089460)
http://www.mspb.gov/netsearch/viewdo...cation=ACROBAT

I thought they fixed that problem.

Special thanks to Cryptome.

http://cryptome.org/0001/tsa-ssi-02.htm

I am still reading it so I don't know if there is anything juicy yet.

Snicker, giggle, snort, ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha,

Referring to DHS/TSA upper level management as the Keystone Cops would be an insult to the Keystone Cops. Got to hand it to them though, they do provide a bit of drama, comedy, etc.

senseker Dec 31, 2009 7:33 pm

What boring documents.

Trollkiller Dec 31, 2009 7:35 pm

I am starting to feel sorry for Gale, her whole foundation is starting to crumble and she will be the one that fall furthest.

Interesting tidbit

Quote:

This figure was based on the appellant’s assertion that the manufacturer claimed machines could detect 1 part per billion of explosive residue in a sample but that in covert testing a 2 percent (or two parts per hundred) residue was often not detected. AF, Tab 1, Exh. 1 (September 28, 2007 letters to various officials).

Trollkiller Dec 31, 2009 7:37 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by senseker (Post 13089485)
What boring documents.

I know, I expect SSI to be really SENSITIVE Security Information.

BYW you need to contact your superiors per the law on SSI. I have already screwed up one of Blogger Bob's weekends.

AngryMiller Dec 31, 2009 7:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13089500)
I know, I expect SSI to be really SENSITIVE Security Information.

BYW you need to contact your superiors per the law on SSI. I have already screwed up one of Blogger Bob's weekends.

I suspect that they have a person assigned to read FT security posts over the weekend and the call has already gone out.

senseker Dec 31, 2009 7:44 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13089500)
I know, I expect SSI to be really SENSITIVE Security Information.

BYW you need to contact your superiors per the law on SSI. I have already screwed up one of Blogger Bob's weekends.

Well, I would never post ssi here or anywhere. I'm not about to lose my job.

:p

KNRG Dec 31, 2009 7:47 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13089491)
Interesting tidbit

I made the assertions that those machines didn't work in another thread.. I didn't know the specifics but I knew they weren't happy with them, even the dumbest government entity wouldn't employ dozens of them at one airport (TPA) and then suddenly shut them all off and cart them away if there wasn't something seriously wrong with them.

bdschobel Dec 31, 2009 7:48 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by senseker (Post 13089519)
Well, I would never post ssi here or anywhere. I'm not about to lose my job.

:p

I suppose no matter how terrible the job, somebody somewhere values it! :(

Bruce

senseker Dec 31, 2009 7:52 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdschobel (Post 13089533)
I suppose no matter how terrible the job, somebody somewhere values it! :(

Bruce

It isn't that bad. Yea, it gets annoying at times, but I have fun. Besides, i'm not an ... towards passengers, so sometimes it's nice when they tell me how nice it is to meet a non-mean tso. However, not everyone can be pleased, no matter how wrong they are.

Trollkiller Dec 31, 2009 8:09 pm

BTW I have the documents posted on my blog in case the original gets yanked.

I alerted Blogger Bob so I wonder how the TSA will play it this time around. I am expecting a much cooler response.

Boggie Dog Dec 31, 2009 9:17 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13089491)
I am starting to feel sorry for Gale, her whole foundation is starting to crumble and she will be the one that fall furthest.

Interesting tidbit

Never feel sorry for appointees. They did nothing to earn the position they hold.

Boggie Dog Dec 31, 2009 9:18 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13089590)
BTW I have the documents posted on my blog in case the original gets yanked.

I alerted Blogger Bob so I wonder how the TSA will play it this time around. I am expecting a much cooler response.

You remind me of the little boy with a magnifying glass zapping ants.

Trollkiller Dec 31, 2009 10:09 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 13089794)
You remind me of the little boy with a magnifying glass zapping ants.

I think that is a pretty accurate description, but those ants deserved to die.

eyecue Dec 31, 2009 10:56 pm

How you guys find this stuff is amazing. The case is interesting and I would concur with the experts that the TSO does not have the expertise to speak to the issues. However, the court is right in its ruling that the expertise is not in question, it is the belief that the TSO is being retaliated against for what he has said that holds merit.

Olton Hall Jan 1, 2010 9:20 am

Don't they ever learn from their own mistakes? Silly question. That's been answered several times already. No.

Trollkiller Jan 1, 2010 11:23 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olton Hall (Post 13091425)
Don't they ever learn from their own mistakes? Silly question. That's been answered several times already. No.

I think this time they did learn from their mistakes. I just checked and the document is still up on the server. http://www.mspb.gov/netsearch/viewdo...cation=ACROBAT

I guess knowing how poorly the swabs work is not nearly as dangerous as knowing what a Senate ID looks like.

sbm12 Jan 1, 2010 11:25 am

I've put up another post as well and also alerted a few media folks I was in contact with from the last round I was involved in. The hits just keep on coming. In this case the only sliver of hope for the TSA that I can see is that they didn't publish the document so technically it might not be their fault. But the issue is still very real.

n4zhg Jan 1, 2010 11:26 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13089460)
http://www.mspb.gov/netsearch/viewdo...cation=ACROBAT

I thought they fixed that problem.

Special thanks to Cryptome.

http://cryptome.org/0001/tsa-ssi-02.htm

I am still reading it so I don't know if there is anything juicy yet.

Hi/Low on when the next "administrative subpoena" will be served by TSA Special-Ed Agents?

Trollkiller Jan 1, 2010 11:35 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbm12 (Post 13092008)
I've put up another post as well and also alerted a few media folks I was in contact with from the last round I was involved in. The hits just keep on coming. In this case the only sliver of hope for the TSA that I can see is that they didn't publish the document so technically it might not be their fault. But the issue is still very real.

Thanks.

From the document.

Quote:

The original unexpurgated version of this Opinion and Order contains Sensitive Security Information (SSI) protected by 49 C.F.R. Parts 15 and 1520. Per agreement between the Merit Systems Protection Board and the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), the TSA has redacted all SSI protected by 49 C.F.R. Parts 15 and 1520 from this version so that it can be made available to the public.
So yep still the TSA's fault.

Trollkiller Jan 1, 2010 11:37 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by n4zhg (Post 13092011)
Hi/Low on when the next "administrative subpoena" will be served by TSA Special-Ed Agents?

I hope today, cuz I am feeling all rednecky.

n4zhg Jan 1, 2010 12:00 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13092069)
Thanks.

From the document.

So yep still the TSA's fault.

So now I have to update my article yet again.

If they do show up, remember they don't get past the threshold without a warrant.

Trollkiller Jan 1, 2010 12:13 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by n4zhg (Post 13092216)
So now I have to update my article yet again.

If they do show up, remember they don't get past the threshold without a warrant.

I have already briefed my wife and children on the proper response. The children have been instructed to say nothing other than "I will get Dad" and they have been instructed to come inside and shut the door behind them.

I have also instructed them that if the agent persists in asking questions the response is to be "I require a lawyer to be present at questioning".

I got my daughter a camera for Christmas, she has been instructed to take as many photos as possible. I have also instructed her on how to react if the agent tries to seize the camera.

Like I said, I am feeling all Rednecky today.

n4zhg Jan 1, 2010 12:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13092280)
I got my daughter a camera for Christmas, she has been instructed to take as many photos as possible. I have also instructed her on how to react if the agent tries to seize the camera.

Trying to seize the camera might be almost as dumb as Texas Tech firing their coach right before the Aloha Bowl.

There's the spot...here's the kick...ouch, right between the uprights! :D

Trollkiller Jan 1, 2010 12:27 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by n4zhg (Post 13092348)
Trying to seize the camera might be almost as dumb as Texas Tech firing their coach right before the Aloha Bowl.

There's the spot...here's the kick...ouch, right between the uprights! :D

She asked me if the jingles were fair game. I told her to ring that bell.

BarbiJKM Jan 1, 2010 4:16 pm

I don't know which is scarier:

1. That TSA doesn't have the brains/talent to properly redact what it considers to be SSI;

2. That the unredacted info in this doc shows what pathetic security measures are being used with checked luggage; or

3. That TK is feeling red-necky today! (Watch out!) :D

n4zhg Jan 1, 2010 4:39 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarbiJKM (Post 13093404)
I don't know which is scarier:

1. That TSA doesn't have the brains/talent to properly redact what it considers to be SSI;

2. That the unredacted info in this doc shows what pathetic security measures are being used with checked luggage; or

3. That TK is feeling red-necky today! (Watch out!) :D

TK is merely my padawan in the Redneck Order. :D

IslandBased Jan 1, 2010 4:54 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by n4zhg (Post 13093500)
TK is merely my padawan in the Redneck Order. :D

Please note that the term redneck comes from the WV coal miners who were ambushed by machine gun fire while trying to organize for better working conditions and wages. They wore red kerchiefs to identify themselves.

"By 1920, coal miners had started to organize via labor unions. The Battle for West Virginia's Blair Mountain in 1921 occurred when a group of 10,000 coal miners fought for their right to organize and improve working conditions. They marched against armed Federal troops in what became the largest armed conflict on American soil following the Civil War. The solidarity that developed helped the union organize conditions in the coalfields.

To identify themselves, the Blair Mountain miners wore red kerchiefs around their necks. The documentary suggests these kerchiefs were the origin of the term redneck.

According to the Sierra Club Newsletter, Blair Mountain was shut down in 1999 and has lost all original forest and mountain topography. The modern, cheaper method of mining lops a mountaintop off its base.

The Blair Mountain site was owned by Arch Coal Company and is located near Logan, West Virginia. Kenny King, a West Virginian descended from miners who fought the Battle of Blair Mountain, has spent years documenting artifacts from the 1,600-acre site and is attempting the battlefield listed on the Natural register of Historical Places."

Quoted from: http://www.helium.com/items/632199-w...rginia-culture

Trollkiller Jan 1, 2010 6:18 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandBased (Post 13093569)
Please note that the term redneck comes from the WV coal miners who were ambushed by machine gun fire while trying to organize for better working conditions and wages. They wore red kerchiefs to identify themselves.

"By 1920, coal miners had started to organize via labor unions. The Battle for West Virginia's Blair Mountain in 1921 occurred when a group of 10,000 coal miners fought for their right to organize and improve working conditions. They marched against armed Federal troops in what became the largest armed conflict on American soil following the Civil War. The solidarity that developed helped the union organize conditions in the coalfields.

To identify themselves, the Blair Mountain miners wore red kerchiefs around their necks. The documentary suggests these kerchiefs were the origin of the term redneck.

According to the Sierra Club Newsletter, Blair Mountain was shut down in 1999 and has lost all original forest and mountain topography. The modern, cheaper method of mining lops a mountaintop off its base.

The Blair Mountain site was owned by Arch Coal Company and is located near Logan, West Virginia. Kenny King, a West Virginian descended from miners who fought the Battle of Blair Mountain, has spent years documenting artifacts from the 1,600-acre site and is attempting the battlefield listed on the Natural register of Historical Places."

Quoted from: http://www.helium.com/items/632199-w...rginia-culture

That is the first time I ever heard that version of the origin of redneck.

IslandBased Jan 1, 2010 6:24 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13093880)
That is the first time I ever heard that version of the origin of redneck.

The miners involved were mostly of Scottish and Irish descent. The term was used in a derogatory way in an attempt to undermine their struggle.

Just so you know, TK. ;) In that context, you are aligning yourself with some very determined folks.

Trollkiller Jan 1, 2010 7:23 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandBased (Post 13093916)
The miners involved were mostly of Scottish and Irish descent. The term was used in a derogatory way in an attempt to undermine their struggle.

Just so you know, TK. ;) In that context, you are aligning yourself with some very determined folks.

Oh great now I will be associated with another DHS designated "low level" terrorist group. It was bad enough when I was just a conservative that is against abortion and believes in State's rights.

On a lighter note, the document is still on the server for all the world to see. I guess they figured out that a knee-jerk reaction leads to a world of hurt.

svenskaflicka Jan 1, 2010 8:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13094173)
Oh great now I will be associated with another DHS designated "low level" terrorist group. It was bad enough when I was just a conservative that is against abortion and believes in State's rights.

On a lighter note, the document is still on the server for all the world to see. I guess they figured out that a knee-jerk reaction leads to a world of hurt.

I think we ought to set up a forum for donations to get red-necky Fters out of jail. All of you who fight for justice for the rest of us who travel are owed a million thanks over and over again. Thanks to all the red-necky Fters! :D

Trollkiller Jan 1, 2010 8:38 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by svenskaflicka (Post 13094307)
I think we ought to set up a forum for donations to get red-necky Fters out of jail. All of you who fight for justice for the rest of us who travel are owed a million thanks over and over again. Thanks to all the red-necky Fters! :D

That is a good idea. It will need some fleshing out and some safeguards built in.

It could be come part of a Citizens for TSA reform group.

law dawg Jan 2, 2010 8:46 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbm12 (Post 13092008)
I've put up another post as well and also alerted a few media folks I was in contact with from the last round I was involved in. The hits just keep on coming. In this case the only sliver of hope for the TSA that I can see is that they didn't publish the document so technically it might not be their fault. But the issue is still very real.

It's worse TK. The last one they pawned off as being done by an intern. From my understanding, anything out of the MSPB is supposedly vetted by the SSI officer director within TSA. Can't remember the guy's title, but it's an actual position that directly involves SSI matters. No interns around to blame this time.

willpolice4food Jan 2, 2010 9:42 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by law dawg (Post 13096258)
It's worse TK. The last one they pawned off as being done by an intern. From my understanding, anything out of the MSPB is supposedly vetted by the SSI officer director within TSA. Can't remember the guy's title, but it's an actual position that directly involves SSI matters. No interns around to blame this time.

The TSA Office of SSI reviews MSPB decisions of TSA employees BEFORE the MSPB posts them:

Quote:

And in an ironic twist, the [Merit Systems Protection] Board's decision was itself labeled “sensitive security information" and posted on a publicly accessible government website, due to a “computer glitch,” the board says.

"I reviewed the decision before the Board posted the document," said TSA’s [Doug Blair of TSA’s sensitive security information oversight office]. The board decision was posted in the late afternoon on Monday and taken down early on Tuesday morning, said Bungard, the board’s general counsel. "The agency marks documents with the label 'sensitive security information' if there is a possibility it contains SSI," said [Chad Bungard, the Merit Systems Protection Board general counsel].
http://www.publicintegrity.org/blog/entry/1523/

As of May 11, 2009, Andrew Colsky is the TSA Director of SSI:

Quote:

"We are very proud to have certified 76 people this week, and we have confidence in all of our certified SSI personnel and their abilities to properly handle the SSI issues that so frequently present themselves in the field," said Andrew Colsky, Director of the SSI Office.
http://www.tsa.gov/weekly/051109.shtm

Trollkiller Jan 2, 2010 9:45 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by law dawg (Post 13096258)
It's worse TK. The last one they pawned off as being done by an intern. From my understanding, anything out of the MSPB is supposedly vetted by the SSI officer director within TSA. Can't remember the guy's title, but it's an actual position that directly involves SSI matters. No interns around to blame this time.

They seem to be taking a more chilled approach to this damning leak. As of an hour ago the document was still in the wild.

willpolice4food Jan 2, 2010 11:46 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13096574)
They seem to be taking a more chilled approach to this damning leak. As of an hour ago the document was still in the wild.

Just removed:

http://www.mspb.gov/netsearch/viewdocs.aspx?docnumber=415916&version=416870&appl ication=ACROBAT

Olton Hall Jan 2, 2010 11:58 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 13096574)
They seem to be taking a more chilled approach to this damning leak. As of an hour ago the document was still in the wild.

Quote:

Originally Posted by willpolice4food (Post 13097214)

Took their sweet time. I guess no one was minding the store at DHS/TSA over the New Year's holiday as personal vacations are more important than national security. ;) :rolleyes: At least we have determined which they consider to be a higher priority.

Trollkiller Jan 2, 2010 12:04 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olton Hall (Post 13097276)
Took their sweet time. I guess no one was minding the store at DHS/TSA over the New Year's holiday as personal vacations are more important than national security. ;) :rolleyes: At least we have determined which they consider to be a higher priority.

I know Blogger Bob was alerted, it must be frustrating for him to get this news and have others sit on it.

Take heart the document still reside on Trollkiller's World and Cryptome.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 9:27 am.
1  2 
Page 1 of 2
Go to


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.