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-   -   Fighting Invasive Imaging at the State and Local Level (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1000616-fighting-invasive-imaging-state-local-level.html)

MikeMpls Sep 30, 2009 6:33 pm

Fighting Invasive Imaging at the State and Local Level
 
Just a thought here: Getting any changes out of Congress (esp. in a timely fashion) is a long shot. However, virtually all airports are locally owned. We should be lobbying city, county & state governments to provide reasonable disclosures (including the TSA's own sample MMW images :D) in close proximity to the TSA checkpoint at airports. Since access to the checkpoints supposedly is control by the airport & airlines, sample images could be mandated for everyone lining up at a MMW. As long as the information is neutral and accurate, including the right to decline invasive imaging, TSA can't legitimately argue that it is "interfering" with the screeing -- especially since it would be their own sample images that are given out.

I can't see Congress doing diddlysquat here, but I can see a number of state & local governments getting worked up over the prospect of pedophiles & perverts looking at their wives and children naked.

This could even be pursued by individuals in states which allow voter initiatives.

Trollkiller Sep 30, 2009 6:56 pm

Good suggestion. Before attacking the State and local authorities take the time to look up your State's Constitution, and state laws and see if there is anything on the books that may make the MMW illegal.

AngryMiller Sep 30, 2009 7:01 pm


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 12465272)
Good suggestion. Before attacking the State and local authorities take the time to look up your State's Constitution, and state laws and see if there is anything on the books that may make the MMW illegal.

A good place to begin might be with voyeurism laws, given the issues that people have had with hidden cameras.

ralfp Sep 30, 2009 7:35 pm

What kind of jurisdiction do states have over the TSA (or federal agencies/employees in general)?

Do state speed laws apply to TSA employees driving gov't owned vehicles? What if the employee is headed to an airport for an emergency terminal dump because of a stray water bottle? How about state safety laws (e.g. zoning, construction codes, workplace safety, etc.)?

Can a TSA employee be arrested on state charges for fondling a traveler, or are they completely immune from state & local laws while on the job?

Trollkiller Sep 30, 2009 7:38 pm


Originally Posted by AngryMiller (Post 12465298)
A good place to begin might be with voyeurism laws, given the issues that people have had with hidden cameras.

Right to privacy laws, right to travel laws etc.

Janus Sep 30, 2009 8:24 pm


Originally Posted by ralfp (Post 12465456)
What kind of jurisdiction do states have over the TSA (or federal agencies/employees in general)?

Do state speed laws apply to TSA employees driving gov't owned vehicles? What if the employee is headed to an airport for an emergency terminal dump because of a stray water bottle? How about state safety laws (e.g. zoning, construction codes, workplace safety, etc.)?

Can a TSA employee be arrested on state charges for fondling a traveler, or are they completely immune from state & local laws while on the job?

1. Depends, but by and large, Congress has a strong case that air travel is interstate commerce so they trump the state. But as the OP said, the TSO only runs the check point, not the area before.

2. Yes

3. All apply

4. Still must follow state law, unless there is federal law that trumps. So unless Congress passes the "Keeping America Safe Through Fondling Authorization and Appropriation Act of 2009" you'll be fine.

halls120 Sep 30, 2009 9:25 pm


Originally Posted by Janus (Post 12465680)
So unless Congress passes the "Keeping America Safe Through Fondling Authorization and Appropriation Act of 2009" you'll be fine.

:eek: Please, don't give them any ideas.

IslandBased Sep 30, 2009 10:38 pm


Originally Posted by halls120 (Post 12465963)
:eek: Please, don't give them any ideas.

Perhaps we should just ask for a pubic (oops) TV live feed from the machines...

ralfp Sep 30, 2009 10:41 pm


Originally Posted by Janus (Post 12465680)
1. Depends, but by and large, Congress has a strong case that air travel is interstate commerce so they trump the state.

That makes sense when applied to cars traveling on highways, yet the feds implicitly accept that they do not have this power (by way of the "no money if you don't submit to our DUI standards" blackmail).

Why does Congress (the beginning of far too many stupid questions) admit it has no power over interstate driving, yet claim it has power over intrastate flying? Can one to start an intra-state airline and ignore the TSA?

MikeMpls Oct 1, 2009 12:35 am


Originally Posted by ralfp (Post 12466267)
That makes sense when applied to cars traveling on highways, yet the feds implicitly accept that they do not have this power (by way of the "no money if you don't submit to our DUI standards" blackmail).

Why does Congress (the beginning of far too many stupid questions) admit it has no power over interstate driving, yet claim it has power over intrastate flying? Can one to start an intra-state airline and ignore the TSA?

Interesting question -- Southwest originally was an intrastate airline to avoid the regulation that would have killed it. However, an intrastate airline can't go very far.

GUWonder Oct 1, 2009 1:51 am


Originally Posted by Janus (Post 12465680)
] So unless Congress passes the "Keeping America Safe Through Fondling Authorization and Appropriation Act of 2009" you'll be fine.

Something like that for the TSA and continuation of the USA PATRIOT Act provisions are currently up in Congress:

http://www.ombwatch.org/node/10430


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