Icelandair refund issues
 

Just beware, folks, FI is butchering their customers.
My mother, a Chinese citizen, is supposed to travel to KEF from YVR in about 20 hours. Due to the travel restriction in Schengen and in Canada, she is unable to initiate the journey, not to mention the incredible social irresponsibility of traveling now. I called FI almost a dozen times, and in the few that connected, the agent was very clear: no refunds, no travel credit, only $350 change fee waived. They then proceeded to quote nearly 2k each time to re-issue my mother's Saga Class ticket, even though I explicitly explained that the chances for her to get a new visa for Iceland (via Denmark Consulate in Canada) again this year is virtually nil. I feel extremely bad as one agent was clearly at the verge of tears as she told me it was the case for everyone calling, and she was just a call center agent located in Asia with no power nor ability to escalate. Finally I called the Icelandic number as directed by an agent to look for a supervisor, and the Icelandic lady receiving the call is extremely rude and refuses to consider any other option.
In times like this, with severe travel restrictions everywhere, FI is still holding high prices just to trap rebooking passengers, and refusing even a travel credit. And what made me infuriated is the fact that all attending a certain music festival in KEF was given the chance for refund, while normal passengers somehow do not have it as an option. I am extremely disappointed by the greedy policy and sincerely hope they go belly up.
What can I do now? Should I issue a cc chargeback? Is there any way to file a complaint? Has anyone successfully dealt with FI?

I am not an expert on this (but looking into it regarding some other airlines), but if the flight is not cancelled how can you claim that the paid for service was not provided?

If she shows up for the flight, they'll deny her boarding. In which case they have not provided the service paid for through no fault of the ticketed passenger.
Then initiate a chargeback. Depending on the card and your relationship with it, they could get your money back or they could accept FI's lame "not our fault, not your fault, but you get to pay for it" excuse.

It is solely the passenger's responsibility to have required documentation for admission to the destination and the airline is not required to refund where the passenger cannot travel due to something that is passenger's responsiibility
No more entitled to a refund in this case than if just turned up at airport without a passport and was denied travel

According to its website

See https://www.icelandair.com/support/c...nge-fee-waiver

Perhaps change to a date where may be able to travel and if the agent wants to try charging a change fee, refer to the policy

But the travel ban imposed by the government should not be a reason to attribute it to the passenger? Icelandic embassy in Canada has stopped issuing Chinese citizens tourist visas indefinitely, so even if she changes dates, which date can she change into? This is not passenger's fault for sure, right?
Yes, all agents waived the change fee, it is just no lower fare buckets for Saga Class is open as I suspect FI knows they are not gonna get any new bookings for the time being no matter how cheap the tickets get, so they pulled all lower fare buckets to force anyone changing dates to pay the high fare difference. My mother has to pay 90% more than its original ticket price for a trip 8 months out in low season in November, it is not reasonable. We bought the original ticket just 40 days ago. For me, for a one way fare, I have to pay 120% extra.

It is not the airline's fault though is it?

Yeah, but that is why maybe airlines should negotiate with their customers instead of just taking their money? Or even worse, eliminating cheap fares in the future to create an illusion of choice? Worst case scenario, both the individual passenger and the corporate airline take half of the loss?

1. A chargeback will fail. Card issuers are wise to attempts to beat the rules these days, so this one will get dealt with quickly.

2. On the other hand, this ought to be a fairly easy claim on her travel insurance.

https://www.icelandair.com/support/c...nge-fee-waiver

If you had a fully refundable ticket - what would your response be to the airline trying to negotiate that it give a 50% refund?

If purchased before everything flared up, travel insurance may cover it - the airline is offering a travel credit, which seems to be on par with other airlines

IS FI ACTUALLY EFFING WITH ME NOW!??? ARE THEY OUT OF THEIR D#$@ MIND?!
This is a brand new policy today!!! Just yesterday it was just pay 4 digits of fare diff to change or lose it, and today they issue this sh#*?
I called, the agent said it does not apply retroactively, so if you have a flight that departs on 20th, you can get full credit, but for 23:55pm on 19th, tough luck, cough up a few stacks to change or just lose it. Is any airline with policies as inconsistent as this? So even with this policy in the department, I cannot get a credit. I can only get 90-ish dollars of taxes back. Full stop, end of story.
This has to be a joke.

My mother's Chinese travel protection does not cover any Coronavirus-situation since mid-Feb. Also refer to my post right above this one for the credit. It is only for flights departing after 20th. If you travel before 20th, you have no option but to pay the fare-diff that they kept high.

Icelandair has managed to infuriate hundreds if not thousands of customers (check out their Facebook page). We had already repositioned to NYC when on the night of March 12 after the president's speech we decided not to take our JFK-KEF-BRU flight the following evening. I'm glad we made that prudent decision.

Icelandair was clearly overwhelmed, which was understandable. They further worsened the situation by suggesting customers contact them via Facebook or Twitter. We tried all three and eventually got through on the morning of March 13. We were given the same alternative as you were on two separate phone calls.

If Fl had offered a travel credit good for a year to us we would have cheerfully accepted it. We quite possibly wouldn't have used it but the option would be open, we could fly out of SEA, much closer to home, and it's possible they would have made some more money from us. Demanding that we choose a date with return no later than August 31, to fly the same itinerary, and to pay the whopping difference in fare (it would have more than doubled our sale fares) would simply be throwing good money after bad. As it was, we got notice that one of our returning flights BRU-KEF-JFK was canceled.

I just tried to fill out the form but when I enter my booking number or ticket number I get a "login failed" message. I'll probably see one of those 10% refunds of "some of the taxes and fees" on my credit card at some point.:td:

I did manage to fill in forms for Mrs. Fredd and me using the following link, and we've received automated confirmations they were received, but I won't hold my breath waiting for a credit:

https://www.icelandair.com/support/c...rop-us-a-line/

For our March 15 trip, Icelandair would only let me rebook my exact same itinerary (YYZ-CDG) and cabin class (Saga) for a trip ending by August 31, an “offer” that would have cost me an *additional* $5400. I let the booking lapse without cancelling it and filed an insurance claim on Sunday. I would have taken the credit they are now offering others in the same situation; it’s a pity they were so unreasonable and out of step with many of their competitors.

This Reuters article reveals what bad shape they're in, with share price down to about US 2 cents...

UPDATE 2-Icelandair cuts jobs, pay in virus response; shares slide

I reached them today about my cancelled flights. They’ll refund me, but it will take 3-5 months to process.

That's an example of an airline being unreasonable, and probably in violation of EU law (not sure if EU travel regs. bind Iceland) which requires a refund within 7 days of request after a cancellation.

The OP's situation, however, is not such an example. It's very unfortunate how your mother was unable to get to her flight, OP, but as others have noted, Icelandair is not at all to blame for that. You can't reasonably expect them to do anything more than whatever her ticket conditions require of them (if anything) when she missed the flight that flew, as scheduled.

Presuming that it is FI which cancelled OP's flights, he is due a reimbursement (refund) under EC 261/2004 (which most certainly applies to FI). The Regulation requires that the refund be initiated within 7 days. On the 8th day, presuming that jjmpd has not heard from FI (or seen from looking at his account) that the refund has been processed, he should initiate a chargeback with his credit card issuer (bank). To make this quicker, he ought to supply or offer to supply a copy of his e-ticket receipt, the cancellation notice, his request for a refund, and then note that more than 7 days have passed and although FI has committed to a refund, none has been forthcoming.

As others note, this is OT to the thread, which deals with a situation in which FI did not cancel a flight, the passenger was not able to travel for reasons having nothing to do with FI, and her travel insurance does not cover the situation.

okay just to report back.
I filled in the form provided on their COVID page, having little hopes, on Mar 21st. I explained the situation and still believe the same: yes, the flights are flying, but traveling literally 2 days before the border shut down is virtually impossible, not to mention visa situation once we get back. Also I simply wanted a voucher, not a refund, when people flying literally 24 hours after us could have got it with no questions asked is just plain ridiculous. I completely understand that I had no legal grounds for asking for anything, but the options given by FI is so inconsistent and inhumane that I urged them to give me at least an explanation, if not a voucher.
2 weeks later someone at CS emailed me and apologized for the inconvenience, and said they had cancelled the tax refund and decided to issue both me and my mother vouchers.
another week later, emails came in saying that they were being processed.
yesterday another email came in saying that the voucher application was open, I just had to click on the link to claim it. The webpage says the voucher applciation submission successful.

There is no denying FI did not do anything legally wrong initially for refusing everything. But compared to their competitors, their policies were extremely unreasonable, especially for people flying before Mar 20, who were incidentally impacted the most severely. I think in this case of extremely rapid border changes, offering vouchers is the way to go, as refunds may not be realistically possible. However, I have to give FI CS credit where it is due. I am glad that I finally was able to get a voucher and thank them for actually listening to customer feedback. I will continue to support FI after using this voucher, even though it took a few hours out of my life in this crisis.

Thanks for that report. I am currently involved in a similar process after receiving an email from Fl CR last week, and was waiting for it to be finalized before posting.

Once I clarified that they were offering travel vouchers good for three years from date of issue, I immediately replied that we would be very pleased with that.

Interestingly, their courteous reply of confirmation included a copy to the individual at US DOT, where I had made a complaint.

The only issue holding it up now is that I've learned it's much harder to cancel a credit card charge back than it is to make it during the current circumstances. I've spent several hours on the phone before I can get to a Chase rep, and their only explanation is that it has to be handled by the individual to whom my complaint has been assigned.

In any event, I like you have strongly criticized FL, but I will sing their praises when we finally have our vouchers in hand. IMHO they have done the right thing, and the three-year time frame is generous. :tu:

I have a round trip booked with FL for July 4th. I emailed them 30 days ago with some questions about the trip and haven't heard anything yet. Has anyone had luck reaching them recently?

What sort of questions? I would not expect to hear back with answers which are not pre-packaged and likely on the website.

Customer Relations haven't replied yet to emails I've sent them over the past 10 days regarding the promised credit I mentioned above. I finally got through again to the right Chase credit card department, and they gave me a specific date in late April when they say they confirmed with FL I had cancelled the charge back. I have the case number in the subject line, and they've stated they would issue us a credit, so I'm presuming they and probably the entire company are still swamped.

Most of that detail isn't relevant to you but I included it in case anybody else in our situation is still monitoring the thread. Good luck on a timely response.

Trust me! FI hopes that after 3-5 months you just have forgotten about that money.
The actual technical processing does not take 3-5 months.

It may very well do, when their staff numbers are down. In almost all airlines worldwide - and I don't see why FI would be much different - there are fewer customer service agents available than in "normal" times, frequently working from home (where, for various reasons, access to customer payment details may not be possible).

This smaller workforce would therefore already be behind if just trying to process the usual caseload of refund requests - but instead, they literally have to process almost every ticket issued for almost every flight originally scheduled to operate from mid March to the present date, and for all flights that had originally been scheduled for some time going forward...

I wonder if no reply to an email for 2 months + would help to construct an argument for a charge back?

This is was funny.
Try a chargeback. The airline will react immediately and dispute the chargeback.

Why was it funny? Reduced staff numbers does not appear to be a laughing matter.

It's not out of the question to think that a company may not be able to deliver a product which was paid for when they have not responded to an inquiry about that product for 40+ days.

It is funny to see the hypocrisy of an airline, when the airline is telling the public that refunds will take 3-5 months due to low staffing level; but at the same time the airline has enough staff at hand to dispute chargebacks in real-time.

If you are due a refund under either or both EC 261/2004 or US DOT rules because your flight has been cancelled, stick to your choice, make a request for a refund, wait 7 days and presuming that a refund has not been initiated, initiate a chargeback and, in the case of flights to or from the US, file a DOT complaint. Do this on Day 8.

Supply a copy of your e-ticket receipt, the cancellation notice, your request for a refund, and a denial of the request or a note that you have not heard back.

Do this in writing, keep copies of everything and, as likely, when you get to the chargeback, supply the documents with your original request. The easier you make it, the faster it goes and the less likely that the carrier, FI, in this case, contests your dispute. DOT will also forward your complaint to FI and require FI to respond to you with a copy to DOT. Presuming that your flight has been cancelled and that you are due a refund, there is no good answer other than that FI has refunded you.

The key is to document everything, keep on top of it, and not to spend time confusing the situation. Once you request a refund, leave it at that.

Maybe if the credit card company didn't have retaliatory means at their disposal - akin to the customer/passenger - then they would treat all incoming requests in strict order!

But you know that some tasks/requests are more important/urgent than others.

In the case of a charge back investigation opened by a credit card company, you'll surely agree that both the airline, and the credit card, consider it urgent, so it will be treated quickly. The airline is in a position of having to defend themselves against a claim, which if they don't react to swiftly, could have a negative impact on them.

Companies have heft and can "impose" deadlines in ways that the small person can't.

In the case of a refund request, it is of the utmost urgency to the passenger, but from the perspective of the airline, it is just one of many, and therefore cannot reasonably be expected to be expedited ahead of all the others. And, in fact, the more people raise chargeback requests, the more the ordinary customers are pushed down the pecking order.

It is very unfortunate how ALL airlines are treating their customers. I am having a similar issue with Air France.

Are you defending the airline tactic of disputing the chargeback for flights they cancelled and for which they are legally obliged to refund the money? That's what we're talking about. Airlines are having their employees spend time writing and filing bogus objections to these disputed charges. There is no need for them to file anything once they see that they cancelled the flight and the customer is due the money. The only reason this is happening is because the airline wants to hold on to the customer's money, in violation of applicable legal requirements.

But, that speaks to avoiding delay. Chargebacks are expensive to both the card issuer and the carrier. That is a cost which can be easily avoided by simply processing the refund. If one can book and pay for a ticket online, the same can be done for a refund. The sole question is the amount paid and whether one or more segments have been cancelled. Presuming no segments flown, the refund is the amount paid and the problem is avoided.

I'd be curious to know if there is any fee for the vendor when a credit card company decides to uphold the cardholder's charge dispute. If the cardholder loses, nothing happens -- cardholder must pay the same charge as before. But perhaps it's different for the vendor when they lose the dispute.

No - see posts 27 and 30, and my post in 32 which makes it clear which post I am addressing!

...which, as I explained, is why chargebacks are dealt with as a matter of priority.

Airlines should expect large numbers of passengers to invoke that priority when there is no easy and quick procedure online to get the refund they are due under applicable law. This is not an IT or staffing issue -- it's a cash flow matter. Airlines want and maybe need to hang on to money that is not theirs.

Has anyone been able to request and receive a refund from Icelandair for flights that have been cancelled by them, since the COVID-19 crisis? My YVR flight has been cancelled and will not operate for the rest of this year.