I've been mugged 5 times in 30+ years; at least once in every borough except for Staten Island. I'd like to try for the cycle but I just don't get to Staten Island that much! Of course, this does not include the numerous times that my car has been stolen (twice) or broken into (too many times to count).

And yes, right after each one of those incidents, I've become a foaming-at-the-mouth right-winger, wanting to bring back the electric chair for muggers and car thieves. The pull of the dark side is seductive. But luckily, I come back to my senses within a few days. A few days of reading WSJ editorials reminds me how nuts you guys really are! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

And since conservatives are not famous for possessing a sense of humour, let me emphasize that these comments are made with my tongue firmly in my cheek. Hey, some of my best friends are conservatives! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif


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Vasant

Two of the greatest senses of humor belong to conservatives: William F. Buckley, Jr. and Josh Wilde.

Buckley's work can be read in National Review and in various newspapers throughout the world.

Wilde's satires have appeared in magazines, newspapers, and are currently featured regularly on www.got2bet.com and www.gambling.com.

In my impartial opinion, Wilde is the funnier of the two and, in fact, the man borders on pure genius. In addition, he is personally one of the finest people in the world as well. The man is a saint!

Dovster
(aka: Josh Wilde)

I confirm that I bestowed sainthood upon Dovster on Christmas Eve 2003 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif.

Mary

This thread has now officially become so mindless as to escape description.

I'm not an OMNI mod anymore, but I encourage and even invite you to e-mail that concern to Randy. Please.

Failing that, I'm hoping he addresses it on this thread. I'm not Randy and don't pretend to speak for him, but I'd personally wager as to what his response will be.

As I've said before, if you are that concerned with the problem, take it directly to The Man. What's the delay?

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Don't feed the trolls.

I've always enjoyed reading Bill Buckley even while disagreeing with 90% of what he writes. Bill Safire is another conservative whose writings I enjoy.

Until today, I was not familiar with St. Josh. I must remedy that soon! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

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Vasant

It is true that Mary2E nominated me for sainthood in December.

I was surprised at how enthusiastically this idea was embraced by members of the Left -- until I found out that in order to be declared a saint I would have to be dead.

Dovster....another definition that works is a liberal is a “conservative who has yet to analyze his first paycheck stub“.
Although a few flames have erupted in this thread, I’ve enjoyed reading the posts and have found this a very enlightening thread. Having said that, I regret the reason this thread was started and for the loss of a valuable poster in OMNI. However, as I said on the DL forum recently, the DL forum is proud of Dovster and OMNI’s loss is definitely our gain.

This is not a scientific analysis. I only recently realized what's happening in this forum. I don't think I've read this "censored letter", but having been a victim of slanderous and malicious attacks by Dovster, I would tend to believe that he did commit a violation; on the other hand, even if I didn't know anything about dovster, I would still defer to the moderators' decision because I believe they are doing their best to ensure OMNI stays open and viable.

Now, I do believe even the best-behaved posters may post an effending post unintentionally, so the moderators' work is not against any particular posters, but to prevent bad posts from going worse or even igniting unnecessary fireworks.

The original post is part of a longer post which appears on first page of this thread. It is the 13th one there.

In the same (longer) post, I said that "In December, I told one poster that something she said was straight out of Mein Kampf and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I still feel that way but would not have been surprised if that letter had been considered "flaming". Apparently, it was not. Had it been banned, I would not have objected."

That is the "slanderous and malicious attack" to which ChaseTheMiles is referring.

It was considered flaming. Yet in the interest of maintaining dialog and refuting that point and malicious label, I choose to address it rather than simply scream bloody murder and have the posts redacted. I figured my address to those false accusations (which are ridiculous if you knew my family composition) would discredit those who lightly throw around such labels (especially upon those who are undeserving of such since it is a false association of the most malicious variety) and attempt to confuse criticism of state with criticism of the subjects of that state and/or people who may share the same religion.

I think Dovster realizes that one would be hard pressed to find me prejudiced against anyone or any group other than those who hold prejudices against others on the basis of birth and resultant family, cultural, religious, national, etc association.

GUWonder, as I said in the other thread, you have me completely confused. ChaseTheMiles is referring to my having flamed her (and, yes, I have admitted to doing that).

In that same thread, I specifically cited you as a person who may be anti-Israel but is not anti-Semitic.

Unless you live a double life, changing your personality from GUWonder to ChaseTheMiles and vice-versa, I have no idea to what you are referring. (And, no, I do NOT believe that is the case.)

Actually I am referring not just that, but also other attacks including searching supposedly all my posts in OMNI, calculating the percentage or number of posts concerning Isareli-Palestinian topics, and based on your judgement, indict me further. This is not only unscientific (since we don't know whether you really were able to obtain all of OMNI's data, nor is OMNI defining the whole person that I am), the unusual behavior exhibited is akin to stalking. I shudder to think what you would have liked to access if you had my social securitiy number and birth date. I would recommend people not ever meet you in person or you may take down their names and conduct cyber searches.

By the way, you have obviously admitted to flaming and were just waiting to see if the moderator would do something about it. Remember, we are encouraged to take the high road in TOS, ignoring you is not agreeing with you nor letting you off. Moderators are people just like the rest of us; they don't get to read all the threads, unless you expect them to conduct detail searches as you did.

Debate me anytime, but don't resort to name calling and personal attacks when you run out of logic. It only debases yourself.


(Edited to add: I was travelling extensively in late December, barely had time for internet and OMNI, and did not have time to fully react to Dovster's offensive posts. Next time I will know to report to the moderators immediately.)

[This message has been edited by ChaseTheMiles (edited Jan 23, 2004).]

Unless ChaseTheMiles and I become an item (not likely) I think referring to us as vice-versa is going to be difficult. [Chase: Send me a photo. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif An FT dating service is not my style, but women with brains and beauty..., who knows? ]

I am not anti-Israeli, although I am strongly anti-Likud hardliners (in terms of approach, actions, maybe even ideology). I am not anti-Saudi, although I am anti-Saudi hardliner monarchists and fundamentalists (in terms of approach, actions and definitiely ideology).

Really? Such as what?

Interesting. On this very thread, on of the moderators noted that I had posted 145 in Omni in the past three months. I can only presume he got that figure by doing a search. Are you trying to tell me that he was stalking me? Somehow, I very much doubt that he was.

You can stop shuddering. I would not do a single thing if I had access to your social security number, birth date or any other information about you. I don't want to disappoint you, but you are not very high up in my list of priorities.

Do you mean that I should avoid personal attacks like accusing someone of being a stalker?

There you go again, Dovster. I can't agree with arguing for arguing's sake. I said your bahavior was akin to stalking; whether you are actuallly a stalker in reality life, I don't know yet. If an OMNI moderator conducts a search, I consider it part of their job. Another odd aspect to your behavior is that most people would respect a moderator's decision to delete a post or lock a thread, albeit with a few questions. But you, you have continued to argue and expand the argument in Randy's forum. It's not a total waste of time, since I finally have the chance to tell about my experience from your attacks. On the other hand, enough is enough, I would suggest you accept the post's deletion and move on with your life.

Thanks for asking; if only I were 20 years younger! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

ChaseTheMiles, while I have admitted -- long before you got on this thread -- that I flamed you in December, I also said that I did not lie about you.

In other words, I believe that what I said was extremely negative but true.

To go into why I said what I did would involve re-opening the Omni argument, quoting from your posts in it, and giving all the specifics of your statements and my replies. As I have said that I do not wish to post on Omni any more, it would be self-defeating to have an Omni discussion here.

As for my having made other attacks on you, you know that is not true. I can not say that I would not have under similar circumstances, I can only say that those circumstances never arose again.

But you are right about one thing -- I should put the whole CTM-Dovster debate behind me and get on with my life. I suggest you do the same.

The first rule of OP-FOP is that you do not talk about OP-FOP.

parnel -- seems like he has taken the Fifth on your comments? What you outline is sadly just the tip of the iceberg I can assure you regarding certain OMNI Mods.



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~ Glen ~ sipping bubbly from a UA 747-400 exit row 15 near you SOON!

Oz Stamps....I guess that's the "silence is golden" rule now being practiced by Sean.

Put up or shut up, as you are fond of saying.

FewMiles..

No fifth, I'm just rapidly losing interest in this thread. There's nothing new. It seems that after 5 pages it boils down to: the TOS will be enforced, some can't and won't accept that FT is a moderated community, and many enjoy arguing for arguing's sake.

I did ask parnel to ignore another user and asked the other user to ignore parnel. parnel decided to give me the reasons why he didn't want to ignore the other user, and reiterated his dislike of moderation. I told him: "I'm not into taking sides. When you're on my turf (OMNI) I'm just asking you to ignore him, not to bait or be baited. That's not too much to ask, is it?"

Wow, wasn't that exciting?

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Sean
aka: skofarrell
Moderator, OMNI & American Express

[This message has been edited by skofarrell (edited Jan 24, 2004).]

Sean, you are doing the best job you can in a difficult environment. Even most critics, in their heart, know that.

Thanks GU.

Now, since I'm taken to task for not responding to parnel's comment, I wonder if ozstamps can back up his latest OMNI allegation with some fact? Just one name of an FTer that's been banned from OMNI for questioning a moderator's decision.

I think I'll give him an hour! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by skofarrell (edited Jan 24, 2004).]

He is doing an acceptable job...just a little too zealous I do think. And, we seem to get along pretty well on the AC board w/o moderation except when sh!t disturbers show up and we then pretty much moderate ourselves.
I think that bugs some people paricularly some moderators.

Sure thing - seeing you insist on asking the obvious question:

1. Did you ever time-out doc without giving him advance email notice that you planned to?

2. Did doc ever disagree with any of your decisions on OMNI?

3. Did you at any time advise doc he had been timed out from OMNI?

4. Has doc posted ANYWHERE generally on Flyertalk since you timed him out in September?

(Perhaps taking the Fifth was a VERY good idea in hindsight?)

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~ Glen ~ sipping bubbly from a UA 747-400 exit row 15 near you SOON!


[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited Jan 25, 2004).]

No one has been permanently banned from OMNI, for disagreeing with the board owner, moderators, or combination of the two. Now, being completely banned from FT for other offenses is a different story, one which I have no direct knowledge or interest.

I can speak to your to latest unsubstatiated allegation:

1. No. He received several warnings over a 6-10 week period. The last being an explicit instruction to stop his bumping/updating activities because it was causing great consternation with quite a few other members. The moderators and other members were working with Randy to create a "Doc's Newstand" section for him to own. He offered to take a "vacation" again, to which I responded: "I don’t feel it necessary for you to stop posting on OMNI (new or old topics). I am asking you to refrain from updating older topics for a while"

2. Yes, he disagreed with his timeout (which, again, was only from OMNI, not all of FT). His timeout was earned for responding to an attack. He had been explicitly instructed not respond to any attack directed his way a week or so earlier.

3. Yes, he was informed. He (and the other poster with whom he was fighting) received a week timeout. As I told him at the time "Now I am stuck with the unenviable position of having to hand out equal “double minors”, even though he (the other party) picked the fight."

4. The other member served his punishment and returned, Doc elected not to come back.

So, no one has been permanently "banned" from OMNI for disagreeing with a moderator. Doc to this day can choose to post in OMNI if he wants to. He cannot put himself ahead of the TOS or the community though.

FWIW, I have all the email to back up the chain of events. jfe and I were in agreement on the facts and the punishment. Randy, as always was informed and did not overturn our decision.

In the future, I'd suggest that you might want to get both sides of the story, before you make another accusation.

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Sean
aka: skofarrell
Moderator, OMNI & American Express

[This message has been edited by skofarrell (edited Jan 25, 2004).]

I too had my run ins with Doc but he was informative...again I think the "my turf" thing with you is overdone.And, of course Randy will go along with you. You are a volunteer after all.

You're welcome to your opinion. I do not expect to make the right call 100% of the time as I am human. Moderators inform Randy of every action to ensure just that.

Upon reflection, I don't see OMNI as "my turf". It was a poor choice of words (I was in a hurry). But, I will say that I'll do my best to ensure that in any forum I moderate, everyone is going to abide by the TOS. We've had OMNI closed once because people put themsevles above the TOS, and I'm sure my fellow moderators will agree that we'll do all we can to ensure it won't happen again.

I also want to also point out that it wasn't just "me" on any of these actions. The OMNI moderators have always acted in consensus or we do not at all.


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Sean
aka: skofarrell
Moderator, OMNI & American Express

I have not made AFAIK even ONE "unsubstantiated allegation" in this thread, much less more than one. You are a Moderator and posting this stuff?

You challenged me (more than once) to offer details and I did. Your bad move IMO. I never at any time mentioned a "permanent" ban on anyone. And you know it. Yet you went back and edited that in.

I know for certain as of recent days that doc disputes #1 and has done for many months. And he does not mind me passing that on. He posted as much himself that you did NOT email him whatever on this:

www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/Forum44/HTML/013929.html

Perhaps you told others on the Moderator Forum about it often and just forgot to tell doc? Just a thought.

Perhaps you asked him to "stop doing something" that in no way breached the TOS, or anything close to breaching the TOS on any Forum, much less OMNI? Just a thought?

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~ Glen ~ sipping bubbly from a UA 747-400 exit row 15 near you SOON!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif
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Simply amazing.

Sorry, I read "permanent ban" where you did say "time out". My apologies.

Regardless, Doc and another member were suspended for violating the TOS, not "questioning a moderator's decision."

As far as the other accusation, since you're in close touch with Doc, ask him if it is OK for me to post our email chain. I'm sure it will shut this conversation down quick, because I still have it, and I still stand by it.

I'm not concerned with my moves (good or bad as they may be) as you are, because once again, I'm sticking with the facts as I saw them, not memory.

Now, since we are on this walk down memory lane, can you please take a moment and re-read the email you sent me on 18-Jun-2002? I found it quite fascinating...

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Sean
aka: skofarrell
Moderator, OMNI & American Express

[This message has been edited by skofarrell (edited Jan 25, 2004).]

1. The words "time out" seem rather clear to me. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif One apology at last though - so I'll take that gladly. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

2. Not sure what TOS violation adding harmlessly to a thread comprises, with no flame or insults - perhaps you might elaborate - is doing that is still permitted? i.e. the recent ones bumped up in OMNI 'to save being archived' seemed not to have breached that same TOS? No time-outs issued etc?

3. FewMiles I recall reading once told you to "take a hike" over the matter when he was approached. Is that correct? Isn't that: "questioning a moderator's decision." that you just stated had NOT occurred in this matter ??????

Now a very few Moderators moan and groan and grumble (behind my back) about my postings, but I have never told a Mod by email to "take a hike" - or anything remotely close. I have always complied when asked civilly, which also seems to be overlooked by certain parties. C'est la vie.

4. You will of course need to obtain doc's (or anyone else's) written OK to post on FT anything he emailed. My clear understanding is that doc keenly wished to do just that in the past and YOU steadfastly refused. Sounds like one to take to email for sure between you that one. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Perhaps you or he might update us all on your decision, as you say you are now willing. I sincerely doubt posting it will "shut this conversation down" one iota however. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif


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~ Glen ~ sipping bubbly from a UA 747-400 exit row 15 near you SOON!


[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited Jan 25, 2004).]

I'll stand by what I've said. doc and Fewmiles received timeouts for violating the TOS. Fewmiles came back, doc decided not to.They were both warned. The action was taken with the consensus of both (at the time) Moderators.

As to the rest, if Doc wants to rehash it in ORP, he's always been welcome to. We went back and forth in email, and he steadfastly refuses to believe he's done anything wrong. Regardless, he was baited and he retaliated. Both sides received a punishment, and life has moved on.

Since you agreed to "help" with this very issue that summer (again, see your email from 18-Jun-2003), I'm surprised that you're raising this as an "incident" here.

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Sean
aka: skofarrell
Moderator, OMNI & American Express

[This message has been edited by skofarrell (edited Jan 25, 2004).]

I could care less about the sexual persuasion of anyone on FT...or in the real world. I do care about flaming and baiting and running good people out.

I think that Randy was 100% correct in closing Omni and then giving everyone one more chance by reopening it.

It seems that that one more chance didn't work. Omni is still the cesspool of FT.

As for Dovster, he is a friend and a valuable resource for FT. Both for his humor and his brains.

[This message has been edited by mikey1003 (edited Jan 25, 2004).]

Mikey, while I thank you very much for you kind words, I don't know if I agree with you that OMNI needs to be closed.

I am disatisfied with the moderating there and have chosen not to post on OMNI. I haven't been banned from it, this was my own decision.

I also chose not to post on numerous other forums -- although my reasons there are simply a lack of interest.

If someone is happy with the OMNI moderation (and that, I believe, is the majority of OMNI posters) and enjoys going there, I see no reason to deprive him of it.

You, for your reasons, and me, for mine, may not post on OMNI but the fact of its existence takes nothing away from either of us.

I just hate it when it becomes personal.

I think you protest too much http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

skofarrell - thank you for ignoring entirely my questions #2 and #3 above. Others I guess will draw their own conclusion to the non answers, as I most certainly have.

As to # 4 as you know doc is not posting on FT, as he was timed-out on OMNI. I can only repeat that he has advised me several times before YOU were the one un-prepared to have the emails between published here.

I do hope you accede to point #4 above and update us after you have exchanged emails with doc on this, as that of course is the only way they might be published.



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~ Glen ~ sipping bubbly from a UA 747-400 exit row 15 near you SOON!

It strikes me that the conclusion that most have already drawn is fourfold:

1. There small and overly vocal minority on Flyertalk who will disagree with anything a moderator says or does, simply for the sake of raising a ruckus.

2. That the this discussion is about 2-3 three pages of thread beyond absurd.

3. That this forum is "Only Randy Peterson" and not "Only skofarrell" or (my personal favorite) "Only Whichver Moderator X feels like stalking today". So that I don't violate the TOS, I will leave the identity of "X" up to the gentle reader.

4. That if Randy really felt that there was a problem with OMNI moderation, especially with 2 or 3 threads running multiple pages "documenting" (I use that discription loosely) such "abuse," action would have been taken already. Or, the parties insisting upon pressing the issue would have e-mailed Randy directly.

This horse can continued to be beaten until the Glue Man shows up, but the safe bet is twofold: Randy is fully aware of the outstanding work that the OMNI mods are doing (especially in light of the vocal few with no standing who choose to continue to beat the aforementioned horse) and that he presumably supports the mods.

I don't presume to speak for Randy (or anyone else, for that matter), but the evidence is overwhelming.

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Don't feed the trolls.

[This message has been edited by ClueByFour (edited Jan 25, 2004).]