A point that is overlooked by folks who are functionally gloating.

"Yes!! We got 'em good."

I think that it's important that those who would continue to wave arms in victory of sunshine and such carefully re-read Randy's post here, notably the following (the bolding is mine, not Randy's):

One of the outcomes of all this is to potentially have more members with moderation issues, since the mods don't have the opprotunity to kick these things around among one another. This development is not good, despite what those who breach the TOS or abuse the mods and then turn around and complain about the mods would want one to believe.



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Don't feed the trolls.

A number of people here seem to have confused the personal opinions of some members, spoken in private, for any number of increasingly hysterical affronts:

* attacks
* lies
* slander
* libel

These people need to calm the **** down. Nobody attacked anyone. Nobody slandered anyone. Nobody libeled anyone. Look up the definitions if you don't believe me.

And based on my recollection of the discussions, nobody lied about anyone. *******s were called *******s and chronic ****-disturbers were called chronic ****-disturbers. If people don't like what other people think of them, they should start *****ing in the mirror, now bawling to Randy.

People are entitled to opinions about other people, and are entitled to discuss those opinions if they so choose. Anyone who is honestly shocked - SHOCKED! - to find that their behavior in public is cause for derision and concern in private would do well to vacate the internet immediately.

Further, everyone would do well to keep in mind that the discussions in question were private, not meant for the public, and absolutely none of your business.

I think Magic has given us all a feast for thought. Thank YOU for putting so much time and effort into sharing your experiences.

Clue: I don't think Randy will throw the baby out with the bathwater. Having observed the way he operates for some years now, I find his approach of letting things cool before applying thoughtful remediation to be wise and effective. He does not rush to judgement or action and this has at various times been frustrating to me personally, but ultimately it has proven to the the best course. I also know that he values and acts on constructive input from members, so that is why I am now encouraging this here (thanks again, Magic).

As to calls for resignations: I disagree. If the moderators were not specifically told that the TOS did not apply to them in their private deliberations then I think it is unreasonable to ask them to resign for the discussions that took place. Of course, I have the luxury of personally knowing almost all of both the moderators in question AND the folks discussed by the moderators in question, so I may be biased on this. But here is the rub: I LIKE all of the folks in both the talker and talkee sides of this. Heck, I still think that Cigarman is a decent guy to drink and smoke with (as we did at the original DUS) even if he doesn't think I am a good guy or confuses me with other FTers...maybe that's why I am having such a hard time understanding the level of vitriol all these truly fine folks have toward each other...

I find that no matter how annoying some folks are at different levels, we share a passion that is stronger than those differences or annoyances.

Here's another random thought: I sincerely believe that everyone posting and reading here (and I actually include the sabateur/insider/whistle-blower/whathaveyou) really have the best interests of FT in mind. They may have different views of what FT is or should be, but I think everyone here is united by not just a love of travel, miles and points but also of Flyertalk itself...and I reiterate, the best way to be a FT patriot at this point is to offer constructive, general opionions/perspectives rather than any more destructive/personal attacks...

All JMHO, natch.

I stand by my comments above. As magic111 so eloquently explained, it is possible and in fact, desirable for moderators to moderate in a professional and objective way. The glimpse we were all given this weekend showed that the moderating against some members was anything but objective or professional.

These are the folks who should be setting a tone for the rest of the board through their actions. Some moderators failed us, the members, miserably in this regard.

Whether or not the conversations were any of my business is irrelevant - I can't undo the knowledge gleaned over the weekend and frankly, I don't want to. The comments and thumbs-up by certain moderators revealed their personal bias against some members and confirmed to me my suspicions that there was a lynch mob going on behind the scenes.

I don't appreciate your suggestion that someone shocked with what they saw this weekend should leave the internet. I will continue to participate on these forums and I will do so in a manner that does not violate the TOS.

Take a chill pill. This has gotten out of hand and we are making mountains out of molehills. Don't most of us have real work to do since I know we all are not soap opera actors & actresses?

Just as a matter of clarification, I think all of the discussions on the mod board were related to members' behavior on FT.

I wouldn't characterize this as "personal bias." Nobody said "he's a poo head because he dresses funny" - it was a discussion that was entirely based on member activities in these forums.

I mean, Randy said that he got 500-600 messages about one member that were consistent with some of the content on the mod board. I guess what I'm saying is that it seems reasonable that if all those members have a strongly-held position about certain members based on their activities, it's probably not "personal."

Dunno why "personal bias" rubs me wrong, but it's an implication of unprofessionalism that I think is unfair.

CameraGuy. There is no victory by anyone. None by the moderator who betrayed his/her own ranks and none by those that have been critical of a moderator. I really don't know how any respecting member of FlyerTalk sees victory. I'll also argue one of your points. You note that I took away the moderators most useful tool. Remember this - I thought of that forum. Here's the judgment call: I thought I was taking away current and potential pain for a few moderators whose comments were being wrongly skewed. I clearly said in an email to them and to the Community that I closed that forum because I could not guarantee that their comments to me or another moderator would not become fodder for misguided gossip. That guardianship is being overlooked. What is also overlooked is that among the comments was proof that moderators rarely acted alone. They exchanged opinions from others before taking any action. Correct me if i'm wrong but that same process stills exists right now, only relying on private email instead. What do you think would be said had I allowed that forum to stay open and the moderator in questioned re-registered another account and posted something additional. Then I would say that a moderator would have a valid point of no support. As you know, As soon as I returned, I make that decision immediately and stand by it.

As for the minority members, their day will come but I thought it best to concentrate on the issue of a few hi-jacked user accounts. We had to be sure it wasn't a huge internal problem. Should I have ignored that and played pen pal with a minority member? Then what would have been said if it did turn out to be a huge problem?

CameraGuy, you've been a real trooper for me since you've returned and I'll probably never be able to repay all the honor since as I hope you understand, each issue is judged independently with no baggage. These represent how I've gone about responding to several items here and they remain judgment calls. Others might have done something different. But at the end of the day - we're all members of FlyerTalk.

My confusion with this particular post is that I thought the stem of it comes not from this past weekend, but over the past few weeks with the dovster situation and in the historical timeline - I was actually picked on (ask parnel) for being too pro-moderator.

You asked a question. I've answered and it's time to return to the most valuable part of FlyerTalk, which is not ORP.

P.S. And to highlight something mentioned earlier on this post: Some of you will remember that several months ago I approached the TalkTeam and TalkBoard for ideas on how to fund a Community Manager for FlyerTalk. It's not new and I remain very commited to the idea and have a list of those interested in the position, unfortunately none will work salary free, no matter how much they enjoy FlyerTalk.