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You know, after reading Scott's well-thought out post, I'm overcome with the sense that it might be time to hire someone whose job it is to run flyerTalk. Surely it's not full-time, but I'm sure the House of Miles could find something for the person to do with the rest of their time. :-) , just so long as their first responsibility was to manage this board.
The dependency we have on Randy is far too great for a man with such a great and promising enterprise to run. Conversely, flyerTalk is growing much too large to be run "as time permits," because time so rarely permits! I'm not talking about disbanding TalkTeam or the TalkBoard, but making one person salaried and responsible to Randy for running the board, reporting to him, and seeking his counsel in measured and clearly prioritized doses. Most importantly, please don't anyone misinterpret this as the slightest hint of an attack on Randy who given us all so much. It's merely a suggestion on a way to help him keep control of something that has flourished into something so much more than it could have ever been envisioned. Imagine if there were one person who could analyze and update the TOS, to lay down specific standards for moderators and create clear and consistent procedures for all of us to follow, to manage the technical maintenance and initiatives, to organize and implement the rest of the TalkTeam as envisioned by Randy (TalkAssist, etc.), to mediate and establish dispute resolution procedures, to market the board and establish creative revenue enhancement opportunities, to find new ways to mine this rich vein of data about a highly desirable demographic, and on and on and on. I can't imagine that this position couldn't pay for itself and imagine what it would mean to the community. Best is that we wouldn't at all lose Randy's guidance and vision, as this person would be able to regularly meet with Randy, establish priorities, review questions, and solicit advice in a way that we masses could never organize ourselves to do as efficiently as his time needs to be managed. humming, What a Wonderful World It would Be... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif |
Thank you, Scott, for setting forth what may not always be obvious to casual observers such as myself, and for making a record to help those with a more specific need to know.
I'm glad I don't have my e-mail listed! You guys have my admiration. When are you and AnnaS coming out to Saipan? Or maybe you could hold your moderator party out here! |
Originally posted by robb:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">You know, after reading Scott's well-thought out post, I'm overcome with the sense that it might be time to hire someone whose job it is to run flyerTalk. Surely it's not full-time, but I'm sure the House of Miles could find something for the person to do with the rest of their time. :-) , just so long as their first responsibility was to manage this board.</font> However, if a salaried employee, it would depend on finances. If salaried or volunteer, it would be important to have someone as philosophically attuned to Randy's goals as possible. But this indeed seems a classic situation of an organization growing so quickly that the founding management cannot keep his finger in every pie to the extent possible previously, and may need to delegate more. I'm no management consultant, however. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif And Randy's personal input has made this board the wonderful place it is. |
No, no. Not a volunteer. Not someone out of our community and not someone who has any particular interest in the board whatsoever, and this has almost nothing to do with the moderators.
I'm talking about a professional manager who would run the board and report to Randy directly. This manager's philosophy would be fairly irrelevant as they would be an employee and given direction (although, obviously, Randy would interview and seek someone aligned with him, that's somewhat incidental to the idea). |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ScottC: Last but not least, we have been attacked for our "gossip and backstabbing" behind closed doors</font> A GREAT deal of what was posted by loose cannon moderators had NOTHING WHATEVER to do with moderating threads. It was malicious and defamatory and divisive to FT, and un-called for. And the private mods board here got closed down because of it. And glossing over or neatly side-stepping that will not make those TOS breaching posts ever disappear. Several of the primary "offenders" do not agree with me, this is clear. So we will need to agree to disagree on the content of those messages, and not re-hash and dissect the posts here and sidetrack this thread. It is not the end of the world. Start a Yahoo Groups board in 5 minutes if discussing these issues is such a big concern for the few of you who seem still in denial over it. It was all coming from a VERY few folks, that bought shame IMO on all their truly "moderate" colleagues. If they choose not to now moderate - their choice entirely, but please do not vent and blame problems of your own making on others. Now their direct actions are all 'someone else's' fault. The owner of this board it seems. Cute logic. Nice work. Some gratitude for this great resource we all share. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif If there are 50-100 whatever Mods, precious few are joining this chorus, so they appear un-concerned with the way Flyertalk is run. Probably as they have done or secretly posted NOTHING to be ashamed of, and are quite happy with the status quo? I have previously posted that the VAST majority of moderation here IMHO is effective, fair and unobtrusive. From a great bunch of volunteer folks who do FT proud. The ones who are making the loudest noises in this Forum appear to be the ones who by their own actions (no-one else's) had the Mods board closed as it was becoming a little like Jerry Springer. As we all saw over the weekend. I will name no names as they are obvious to all. FlyerTalk will be a better, more enjoyable and more open, and a FAR more transparent place to be in the future I really do believe, especially when some apparently bruised egos get a little more of that BRIGHT SUNSHINE of exposure tanning them. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif. I personally do not feel FT needs a paid "Manager". This is and always has been Randy's Board. He calls the shots, and appoints others to assist him if they volunteer and are suitable. With a couple of exceptions in recent years this seems to have worked pretty well. Like any sizeable organisation, some of those folks come, some of them go. From Talk Board, From Moderators, from regular posters. C'est la vie. But Randy still calls the shots. I think it was either kokonutz or Premex that used the term "Benevolent Dictator". With no disrespect at all to Randy that is also how I see his role. And whilst I have had more than my fair share of e-mailed kicks up the 'you-know-where' over the years he has always acted fairly in my view and with good reason, and I do not argue or whine back at his decisions. If Randy does not like something he sees - he acts on it. (Tell me about it!) Randy can't and will not see everything, and that is just the way it is. And I hope it never changes. This is after all a (superb) Travel Bulletin Board - not the US Congress or IBM. Let us never lose that of that reality. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif ------------------ ~ Glen ~ sipping bubbly from a UA 747-400 exit row 15 near you SOON! |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ozstamps: And the private mods board here got closed down because of it. And glossing over or neatly side-stepping that will not make those TOS breaching posts ever disappear.</font> So can you point us all to the TOS violations? As I don't have access to the private boards, I have never read what TOS apply to them, if any, as they are private. Maybe you can post them here for us all to read? |
robb ... I am curious if a signature line like yours really helps in any way put this weekend behind us so FT can move on?
Posts: 4158 From: a Super Secret Star Chamber of Slander and Libel near you! Registered: Feb 2001 At least one moderator was aghast only a day back at the Mods board being referred to by firstly kokonutz and later myself as a 'Secret Star Chamber'. Then a current Mod voluntarily uses the same term as some badge of honour it almost looks like? In a thread seeking support for those posts and actions, of all places? ------------------ ~ Glen ~ sipping bubbly from a UA 747-400 exit row 15 near you SOON! [This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited Feb 04, 2004).] |
I am certainly aghast at the ridiculous allegation of a super secret star chamber, as it is so over-the-top.
Always drawn to the delightful humor of over-the-top insane rantings, I celebrate it in my signature and invite you to continue... Randy, as you can see you have expressed exactly ZERO support for the moderators as ozstamps seems to believe the TalkTeam forum was closed as a punishment. We again ask you to show some sign of support for us if you wish to retain any of them (I know of eleven personally who are on the brink of resignation over your abandonment of us.) |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by robb: Always drawn to the delightful humor of over-the-top insane rantings, I celebrate it in my signature and invite you to continue... We again ask you to show some sign of support for us if you wish to retain any of them (I know of eleven personally who are on the brink of resignation over your abandonment of us.) </font> ------------------ ~ Glen ~ sipping bubbly from a UA 747-400 exit row 15 near you SOON! |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">We again ask you to show some sign of support for us if you wish to retain any of them (I know of eleven personally who are on the brink of resignation over your abandonment of us.)</font> But threats of mass resignation are a little melodramatic. Plus, Randy doesn't like it when people quit with a big splash, making themselves the center of attention. How about coming to Saipan for a little R & R? Or NYC during the Freddies? I'm sure you'll get your well-earned kudos there. |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by robb: We again ask you to show some sign of support for us if you wish to retain any of them (I know of eleven personally who are on the brink of resignation over your abandonment of us.)</font> "Either you say you are on OUR side or 11 of us will resign." You should be ashamed of yourself for making a threat like this. Either you are hurt enough to resign, then do it, or you let it go. But please spare us the drama of publicly threatening the owner of this board because of a supposed "abandonment". |
As one of the two remaining original moderators (class of July 2001), I have always felt there was both strong site management and general populace support for my efforts. My feelings on this have not changed a bit, even after last week's bizarre activities.
------------------ Craig6z Buzz & United Moderator |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by robb: Randy, as you can see you have expressed exactly ZERO support for the moderators as ozstamps seems to believe the TalkTeam forum was closed as a punishment. We again ask you to show some sign of support for us if you wish to retain any of them (I know of eleven personally who are on the brink of resignation over your abandonment of us.)</font> http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif |
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ScottC: No attack intended here either, but without having been a moderator I don't feel this is an issue you can judge us on, seeing a few out of context posts doesn't make one an insider to the task we have to perform. When countless emails regarding member actions go unanswered and the general consensus is that moderators have to make decisions on their own as the "powers that be" don't respond to some of the troubles we have then you'll see why things got out of hand and had us posting about other members in the manner we did. Trust me, if emails had been answered and action had been taken OR we were told that we were incorrect or exaggerating the problem then we wouldn't have had to discuss people behind closed doors as we have always respected the decisions of those behind Flyertalk. Some of the posts I've seen over the weekend make it look like we are a bunch of vindictive power hungry attack wolves, but what it all boils down to is that we are a very dedicated bunch of people that offer up a lot of time every day to help keep our assigned boards a nice and friendly place (moderating omni takes around one hour a day of my time, the past weeks have had one or two moderators giving up 3 or 4 hours of their weekend to keep the place running smooth). Don't get me wrong, I respect "the big man" as much as everyone else here on Flyertalk, but when the general feeling is that complaints usually go unanswered then you can understand why some have a bit of a morale problem. I run my own business so understand that Flyertalk is just a very small portion of the daily schedule, but running and offering a board of this magnitude comes with a very large responsibility, all someone needs to do to create havoc is post their stuff after Friday 6pm and they have all weekend to screw around, what if someone started posting kiddie porn? Obvious troll accounts were not dealt with right away and were still merrily posting away this morning. It has become perfectly OK for members to rant on and on about moderation and moderators and take constant hits at us, which is why as moderator I would have like to seen some words asking people to be more constructive in their criticism instead of constantly trying to find flaws. Last but not least, we have been attacked for our "gossip and backstabbing" behind closed doors, but some of the emails I've been forwarded made by the more vocal people posting here over the past days make us look like a bunch of kiddies, very personal stuff and of such a nasty and evil nature that I came very close to packing it all in and quitting. Whenever you send someone an email always keep in mind that the recipient might not share your points of view . But at the end of the day it's all just an internet board and it's not worth getting upset about, but I hope my rant sheds some light on the aggravation I (and many of my colleagues) have. I think the best thing to do now is work together to make sure everyone is happy with the work we do, and that no moderator feels that the task he or she has to perform is under constant scrutiny of a few select vocal members of the community, remember that the time we put into this is our spare time and that we do it for the love of the board. </font> [This message has been edited by Gaucho100K (edited Feb 04, 2004).] |
As my sign of support for the MODERATORS, consider yourself 'invited' on the Brooklyn Reality Tour held during the Freddies in NYC.
I'll post me e mail on the soon to be written thread. Just remind me. You folks do a thankless job which many respect; and some don't. Don't let them get you down. They're the folks with the chip on their shoulders. Keep the faith. This too shall pass. Consider yourself (hugged). Dan |
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