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[This message has been edited by LatteSeattle1K (edited 08-07-2003).]

I'd like to hear what Shareholder has to say on this topic.

1D

This thread has got to be the worst advertisement for Flyertalk that anyone could possibly imagine. There are adults here who are probably well-educated professionals acting like bullies in a schoolyard.

I would say to those who get their "knickers in a knot" that they should develop a thicker skin and quote them "Sticks and stones..." and all that stuff. But wait! That's what I talk to my 14 year-old son about! There must be something wrong with this picture somewhere.

But this whole thread says something about our ability to tolerate opposing views and people who think differently. It is certainly nothing to be proud of and bears witness to the intellectual and emotional poverty that characterises some of the characters in the Flyertalk community.

I don't think we want bullies in this schoolyard, of whatever race/gender/religion/sexual persuasion/etc... they may be. There is no need for it. It has nothing to do with the main object of this community which is to unite us by virtue of our common denominator: our love for travel. Why concentrate on the issues that separate us? And even if they are worthy of discussion, why lower ourselves to such a primitive level? A level where "might is right" or "he who shouts loudest wins".

This thread truly marks a sad, indeed a very sad Flyertalk milestone: that of just how low we can get.

Check your facts Parnel. FlyerAl was the one with the leather insults, not Guava or myself. Also as to me having an agenda and hassling you on the issue of G/L marriage, I went through that thread again, my last comment on G/L marriage was on July 9. On July 27 I did comment on what I thought a definition of lifestyle was, and on July 21 I discussed the winter weather and most recently on July 31 I discussed Royal Assent.

Personally I do not care if you stay or go from FT, debate is always good, and enjoyable at times. What I do care about is you name calling me, name calling gay people and frequently referring to me having an agenda. Oppose the G/L marriage issue on here all you want - that is your right. Just as much as it is my right to be in favour of it.

So please leave me out of your personal attacks. I am not attacking you, please don't attack me.

Gee, three pages long----my 15 minutes of fame ae made http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Thank you all for your comments--as to pejorative and personal insults----no one from the G/L side ever said calling an opponent a homophobe because of their opposition to SS marriage was wrong.
How many times have I been called Homophobe in these threads by the likes of Doppy, anonplz Guava, Maple Leaf(who as people have noted has his own sick agenda)etc.Did I respond with ...... or queer which is the typical retort for your language? Don't think so.

If that is not a personal insult when I tried many times to keep the debate civil although very heated than I don't know what is. If you want gays and lesbians to be respected please reciprocate in kind.

Lavender bund is not an insult it is simply slang used in various places that I've been.

Someone else above suggested there is a Mcarthyism of the left and that is how I feel about the methods used by the G/L both in Canada and the US, and I feel that strongly.You simply put your own personal so called rights ahead of everything this society stands for with regard to marriage and tried to entangle it with overall G/L rights.Slick but wrong.
G/L equality was not really about changing laws, just perceptions,while SS marriage is about fundamental change in our societal structure.
The outrage being felt today by CDN parliamentarians is just the tip and is growing. People don't like change without full awareness of its implications to them. I'm sure there is some prejudice to the opposing views they are hearing but the vast majority want our marriage structure left unchanged.IOW as I've stated the G/L lobby should be more creative and find their own long term committment law.
Gays and Lesbians are an equal part of our society but so are polygamists and blood line wannabe marrieds,etc. Somewhere we need to stop and recognize there are limits to everything and in Canada that is recognized by virtue of a not withstanding clause in our constitution created for the purpose of not disabling the rights of the majority or for changes to society that are not good overall.

[This message has been edited by parnel (edited 08-08-2003).]

I wish I was as perfect as you http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

I'm sorry, but all this reactionary sanctimoniousness is a bit much, don't you think?

Some members-who-shall-remain-nameless take provocative positions on issues and veer into thinly-veiled personal attacks when they can't win on the arguments, and then claim victim status when people refute their arguments and object to their use of pejorative words and phrases.

I think it's clear that at least one of those people who are now claiming victim status is skating on thin ice with regard to violating the TOS, and is a poor reflection of FT, and dragging it down to the level of the AOL or Yahoo boards.

IMHO.

Quote:
I think it's clear that at least one of those people who are now claiming victim status is skating on thin ice with regard to violating the TOS, and is a poor reflection of FT, and dragging it down to the level of the AOL or Yahoo boards.

IMHO.

_____________________________________________
Please tell me you are not really Guava http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif
You are taking things too far--never said I was a victim here but you are building my case for compensation in the great American way should I become one.That would be a good case---heterophobic discrimination.
Maybe its time you lighten up as I've tried to do or just loosen the belt a notch.
I had thought you were one of the more intelligent denbaters on your side and now I'm losing respect fast. Your loss http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Well, I think we can all take warning from that.

I've said my piece here, I'm done with this thread.

d

Boys, Girls and Anyothers,

For those of you who let Parnel get to you, don't you realise you are letting him get the better of you.

If you take some of the comments personally, that is your own doing. Quit being such wimps, grow a spine and get over it.

I have never met Parnel, but I think you would find him to be a very affable, humorous person who happens to be an excrement disturber. Having been accused of those personality traits/flaws myself, I think recognise Parnel for the person he really is.

Hey, you been following me? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif
Thanks

Altaflyer says... Well I didn't answer your inquiry but here is my vote and I would hazard to guess it is so for the ones that did not respond - I DO NOT want the AC forum to be moderated and agree with Ken Haamer's points above. If you don't like the forum then feel free to leave.


I too was sent the vote for so and so as moderator letter... I chose to not reply to the letter because I personally feel the AC forum is best kept as UN-moderated...

'taupo' complimented 'parnel' as an "excrement disturber", to which 'parnel' said "Thanks".

Need I say more?

If the FT TOS does not include the equivalent of the above noun and adjective, or does not include
the equivalent of the actions and results of a 'sh*t disturber', then perhaps it should.

If it does, I leave it to FT to make the judgement.


I personally have not complained, since I would have had to do this early and often, and I
believe that the board should be able to function without daily snitching with nuisance calls
for marginal cases (usually just a case of bruised egos).

However, systematic disruption of the 'debate' (if there ever actually was something that ever
reached the level of a debate), and frequent disrespect for the community's values should be
grounds for barring someone from the community. After all, if it happens enough times, and
frequently enough, and consistently over a long enough period of time, then any even-handed
authority would have no problem in spotting an unmistakable trend.

"If you don't share our values, and behave like the rest of us, then out you go".

Not that this results in conformity, but rather encourages the free exchange of independent
thought, by allowing thinking, rather than just typing.


Since I believe that most of us think faster than we type, perhaps the only rule that needs
to be enforced is that FT restricts those that cannot so this (i.e., do the opposite instead).


The votes are in. Let's leave the AC forum alone to be the private playground of 'parnel'
and crew. They seem to like it, and the rest of us do not need to visit there. Of course,
if AC forum participants are regularly reporting harassment and other non-TOS behavior,
then that's another story. And FT is the responsible party.


Perhaps 'parnel' would be happy posting for the amusement of the AC bunch, but quite a few of
the rest of us are not similarly amused. Particularly by the lack of sincerity to engage in
any meaningful exchange. By 'meaningful', I mean responding in good faith.

We all have our differences, and when stated, we often we react as if these differences are
aimed at us personally. Often, a lively exchange results. But this is not the issue.

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The issue is if statements are made that are meant to be personal, and reacted to, not as part
of a legitimate 'good faith' debate, or the usual unintentional and misunderstood differences
that are the result of different positions and opinions. The problem is when there is an
unmistakable intent to cause a reaction for the sake of a reaction, or to derail debate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As some have intoned, it is (almost) a shame that this thread exists, especially with its
content, or lack of it. And, notice - - about one individual. This individual thrives on
notoriety and seeks it in this forum. Mere avoidance may work for the occasional poster or
an inappropriate remark, but it will never work for the habituee...
.
.

Quote by IJK:
As some have intoned, it is (almost) a shame that this thread exists, especially with its
content, or lack of it. And, notice - - about one individual. This individual thrives on
notoriety and seeks it in this forum. Mere avoidance may work for the occasional poster or
an inappropriate remark, but it will never work for the habituee...
_________________________________________________

Please remember that the originator of this thread has constantly and forever been complaining of things he doesn't like here.IOW a whiner.

I have been involved in many threads that went on and on with intelligent debate. In the case of the G/L debate most of those on the other side continued to hammer away on the theme that had been discussed to death and kept returning to it and asking me to explain my opposition which had been clearly explained very early in a much earlier thread when you were not even a poster here, or were you?
Yes, I am sarcastic at times but I'm not alone and not seeking notoriety. I didn't think we had to be stirile to post here.BTW my insults on that thread were due to the lack of respect shown by those on the "yes" side of the SS marriage debate. If you were not "on side" you are automatically a homophobe according to them and that really pi**ed me off because for the most part the discussion with some G/L proponents was going well. But, I digress.

I suggest you submit your style to this board a little longer(if indeed you are a newbie) and you will note you get a lot of attention as well because you seem to have a lot to say and people will make you warrant your opinions which are too long winded IMO.
As for my not responding to your detailed but boring questions go back to earlier threads and see if I stated my case or not.
I was not under any court order to debate you in any specific format.
As the G/L thread wore on I just wanted to maintain my opposition not regurgitate it for every newbie to the debate. Mercifully it was closed.

At the end of the day I could care less if people don't like my opinions because they have the ability to skip any post or thread they don't like---that's democracy and freedom of speech.
For someone who does not put forth a location or email address like the vast majority of people here, you make yourself suspect as to your agenda and IMO it makes me think you are some one who has been here before and reborn with a new alias. You are trying too hard to be different including the lousy presentation of your syntax and short lines.

We have another guy here who had two aliases for awhile until everyone caught on. Of course he vehemently denied it but the other alias disappeared under pressure or his "cousin"( http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif) just lost interest.
My email box has been full of comments frompeople who did no want to go public in the G/L debate becasue of the ferocious attacks by the proponents like you who think their reasoning is sacrosanct and not subject to dissent.
Remember its not the length of the discourse its the quality of what is said and being a chat line short precise comments are more the norm.

Well, I, for one, am not afraid to admit that I think logic and reason are sacrosanct in debate.

Personally, I think if we call could agree to this and put it into practice, we'd be a lot better off. Without logic and reason, what do we have left?

d