I have not problem with moderators. I've seen them work on other discussion group/boards and would be willing to volunteer for a board or two here.

I, too, am against censorship and for the First Amendment. As a newspaper editor, I probably hold these views more deeply than most others here.

And, finally, all a moderator should do is watch for personal attacks and then warn people publicly to stop and regain the civility that, for the most part, exists here. If a situation does generate into a flame war and its participants refuse to take it off the boards, then the moderator should be able to delete such posts.

Two small points of discussion.

Rather than deleting whole threads, UBB software allows threads to be closed to further posting. What would be the justification for nuking rather than simply closing down a thread? Even the infamous MileageGod69 threads were simply locked rather than removed. I think topics should only be deleted for legal reasons (libel, fraud, etc.) but not rhetorical ones (flame wars, too much R-rated chatter).

While I agree that some degree of detachment is a prerequesite for moderators, they can't be so far removed from the action that they have no context from which to assess the appropriateness of the posts. For example, if I go way OMNI on kokonuts, or Catman goes OMNI about Yaz and Eddie the moderator should let that stuff slide with comment. Good-natured jousting with others on the boards is part and parcel of this community.

Your thots?

dgolds What is the happy medium? I don't there is any... after all you can't please all the people all of the time. Rather than moderation we started to offer a digested form of the mailing list -- so folks who were tired of getting hundreds of email now just got one long one that could be skimmed quickly. That worked for us.

I think there is enough support and opposition for moderators to make a test run a good idea. However, I can't speak for others but I know if parts (or all) of this bboard was moderated I'd stop posting....

Why? Other than a few extreme cases like Mr. MileageGod, I find small flame wars refreshing.. it lets people including me get out their aggression... and gives some insight into a person's biases and background so you can understand their posts (after all, you don't come to me to ask about how great United is http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif)

Hence why I suggest if there is moderation to do it in pieces -- and see how the overall populace reacts... With the way the Delta folks had to bang Randy and crew over the head to get responses about their problem I think the status quo -- no change -- is a lot more realistic than any sort of moderation.

Others I am sure have asked Randy's thoughts on this at gatherings he has attended. I certainly did at some length when I had dinner with him here in Sydney last month.

I can only repeat what he said then, and that is he is very comfortable with how the FT board system works right now. He said it is a unmatched "listening post and pulse" for his core business (he has more than 30 staff) and was surprised at the general decorum and input level and wide range of opinions and nationalities of those using it, most especially compared to other internet chat fora on travel.

Many of the points DOC raises were discussed. Randy may of course shoot me down in flames here, but my take was that he was very comfortable with the way things are NOW. He did in fact mention a figure he was spending on an updated, faster and more efficient and feature packed board he is soon to install. It was not chicken feed and he was keen to go ahead. Running this board costs him a pretty sizeable figure each year, even taking off the moderate income from the banner ads. He mentioned it was money he was absolutely delighted to spend.

The speed and effectiveness with which the army of "stinging soldier ants" swarmed and repeatedly bit that "MileageGod69" idiot recently possibly indicates those on these boards can be relied on to "moderate" most outburts pretty quickly, and VERY effectively. That person went away pronto. The FT staff took a long time to act, and those of US here were the "police" in that instance. Not a few of us, but many dozens of us.

This board allows Randy "instant" feedback on things he may wish a prompt answer on from regular fliers. Like some others here I imagine, I received in the past 24 hours an email from David Field, the Aviation reporter for "USA Today" re the differences between airline business/first seats, asking if my comments on the board could be quoted. Randy raised this thread in "The Buzz" and the immediate input he received was clearly useful to "USA Today". I doubt any other avenue for fast, first hand input would be available to any newspaper, anywhere.

Randy did say the sheer volume of people using his boards is a tremendous “people meter” to draw upon for advice he may be asked to offer or proffer. In effect we are a plugged in, instantly contactable, educated and unpaid “staff” of several 1000 experts on their own areas of travel! He said many of his feature stories in “Inside Flyer” have emerged from FT threads, so we as a group are a prime resource for leads and info of new deals, promos, loopholes etc that otherwise he’d not be aware of. We teach HIM thing each and every time he scans the boards he commented.

Randy also said that FT is an essential “training ground” for any new staffers he engages. He commented ALL his staff are trained in multi tasking in all the other areas of his Flyer based businesses. He insists they spend a day or two in solid on line “lurking around the boards”, for them to better understand WHO his business is aimed at, what we seem to want and what we seem to dislike most etc. I can see on that basis FT does make a very useful and “real time" resource to be hosting.

In the "big picture" of Randy's business operation FT is a small sideshow I gather. We ourselves in the main possibly over-rate our influence and importance at times! In fact it costs quite a deal of money to run and maintain. But is a very important resource all the same that cross feeds live data to many of his core businesses.

I was fully expecting to be greeted at dinner by the odor of "Barbecued Ozstamps" based on the whooping of a small band of Indians on FT lately. I was half expecting to be banned for life from FT, invoiced a buck for every post I’d made, having my passport confiscated etc, but no such thing. I gather Randy especially values the input from those regulars OUTSIDE the USA as he often is speaking to operators and airlines not based in the USA – such as his meeting with the Flyer program people at Qantas for instance here earlier in that day. They listen as he KNOWS what the score is.

I am sure Randy appreciates that all people are different and have different styles and ideas and seemed quite comfortable with FT as it stands. He commented on the incredibly high education and presentation level of those who use his boards. I think he is was pretty proud of that, and mentioned what an absolute unregulated, foul mouthed mess some other travel boards have become.

Outside of deliberate and repeated profanity or real froot loop trolls like the “MileageGod69" types, it was my distinct understanding he personally does not have a problem with healthy interchange of ideas and views on his boards. He seems pleased that no official moderators have ever needed be appointed as the boards tend to find healthy balance in self regulation most of the time.

Randy mentioned he set up his “Flyer” empire about 15 years ago on a shoestring of a few $1000, and it has grown and been constantly fine tuned from there. I really have a lot of admiration for someone able to do that, and yet still be so enthusiastic about what he does, that he willingly went on the “Latin Pass” run via ten or whatever Latin countries in paid coach tickets, to get his million points! I really appreciate the superb resource Randy has offered us in hosting Flyer Talk.

I personally have learnt a huge amount from it in the 4 months I have been around here. I also did not want to be overstepping the line from his standpoint with very frequent posting, and introducing often controversial points of view, and raised these very issues specifically with him, as he after all is the one who sets the rules and pays the bills. He had hours of opportunity to take that conversation wherever he wished. Randy simply laughed and said he was absolutely comfortable with it how it stood, and would be comfortable with the input from a "dozen more Ozstamps" if they discovered his boards. (Loud groan from many in the peanut gallery here!) The wider the mix of postings and opinions and nationalities, the more representative and useful the board was to his organization AND to other board users was how I recall him responding.

He did say he really enjoys the FT gatherings he has managed to attend, and really believes there are some superb individuals who are regulars, and mentioned many warmly by name who he feels are fine people he has been delighted to meet and to know.

A lovely guy. Many of you know this from long association, and I suspect some have not yet had the opportunity to meet Randy Petersen. Try and do so if he attends any FT gathering you can make it to! Some of us are urging him to attend the "Altier" FT weekend in Dusseldorf Nov 10/13. As many as 50 FT'ers from all over the globe are flying in for that one. Watch Bernie's thread for constant updates on that in "FlyerTalk Community" Forum!


------------------
~ Glen ~



[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 10-10-2000).]

"Even the infamous MileageGod69 threads were simply locked rather than removed."

I believe, Essxjay, that this is NOT correct. Thread(s), as well as many posts were actually excised en masse- to the great chagrin of some!

Agreed, Randy is an absolutely "swell" guy! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

It's some others that we ALL need to perhaps be somewhat concerned about! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

And so at some point addressing the previously raised concerns would be really great, IMHO! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

IMO, moderators will eventually be required...as I have stated.

No?

Okay, account for the members that have left FOREVER.

They left from frustration over a few bad apples (IMO)...especially during the 'downturn' in the early summer.

If I remember correctly...it took WAY too long to get rid of the mileagegod guy. I almost left the boards at that point...and my tolerance is huge.

This thread is not about Randy and his company ozstamps....it is a discussion of the pluses and minuses of moderators. Give us YOUR opinion (or did I miss it?).

Like I said above...I don't think Randy will put mods on forums...but it will be an eventual reality for the life of the board.

Dorian http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

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Dorian's Star Alliance RTW Price Chart: http://www.informationlab.com/rtw.htm
Blondebomber's Star Alliance Comparison Chart: http://members.home.net/deercroft/starall00.html

Dorian ... my opinion on this was stated early, briefly, and quite concisely, viz:

As an example of the difficulty of locating moderators, someone above has volunteered to undertake such a job. That same person was on another thread a day or so back very aggressively urging me to identify by name a person openly selling "VOID IF SOLD" upgrades on an auction. I did not name the person, but others based on that strident urging did so. That seller (a regular FT board member and has in fact posted on this thread) may now possibly be expelled from MP and its highest level and have all his/her program points confiscated. So being a moderator requires certain judgement calls, and many of us may not be always able to make the correct ones. It is a tough job.

The two heaviest users of FlyerTalk, Doc and Rudi say right here THEY do not want the job, and that lead just may indicate how difficult it may be for any of us to undertake.

If you feel Randy's thoughts on moderators were not important to mention on his boards, I apologise for raising them. It just seemed vaguely pertinent to me.

------------------
~ Glen ~



[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 10-10-2000).]

Don't get me wrong...all posts are certainly valid here....I am personally interested in members thots though (sorry i missed yours...3 glasses of a nice spanish red i have been waiting to open!).

I believe a moderator would not affect your situation. A moderator would "go after" mileagegod types....

I like this discussion...really gets one thinking....

Dorian



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Dorian's Star Alliance RTW Price Chart: http://www.informationlab.com/rtw.htm
Blondebomber's Star Alliance Comparison Chart: http://members.home.net/deercroft/starall00.html

"I am personally interested in members thots though (sorry i missed yours...3 glasses of a nice spanish red i have been waiting to open!)."

Apparently got you thinking AND drinking both, Dorian! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Who was it again that posted that classic thread "Posting while drunk?" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I'm not interested in seeing the board moderated.

Many in favor have pointed to MileageGod as being the reason they now want moderators. Wasn't this guy around here for just a few days and then gone? And to my knowledge this was the first incident of its type in two years. I should hardly think this one jerk's brief appearance on the board should require FT to now be forever changed.

Most of the rest of what I've seen, and maybe I've missed the other stuff, has either been a healthy, if spirited, exchange of ideas or individuals' desires to simply quash ideas/opinions they don't like or ideas/opinions from people they don't like. But doesn't that all go with being part of a community?

Sometimes there are posters who engage in name calling, but it seems to me other people readily and quickly step in and scold the poster. Would a moderator do something different?



[This message has been edited by letiole (edited 10-10-2000).]

Okay DOC...you got me! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Here is the Posting While Drunk thread:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/000893.html

I beg to differ about it being "classic" though! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Dorian

------------------
Dorian's Star Alliance RTW Price Chart: http://www.informationlab.com/rtw.htm
Blondebomber's Star Alliance Comparison Chart: http://members.home.net/deercroft/starall00.html

I hope you understand that this is a thread that I felt needed to go on for a little while before I chimed in. Sometimes jumping in a little early can effect where it leads and I'm pretty comfortable where it is going. Yes, I'm for the bigger picture of responsibility but I do sense (and actually might surprise a few on this thread) that I may change how I view my/our participation on the board. From day one I was comfortable that the board belonged to you - the community; and that we were simply someone who allowed an open forum for it to evolve, similar to owning a coffee house where the intellectuals meet. I'm quite interested in seeing that continue the way this board is used and supported by all of you. To ozstamps points, yes I use the board from an external point-of-view for research and employee training, but honestly, who wouldn't if they looked at the tremendous value of opinions. I'd still use the board the way we do even if i wasn't hosting it. And as most of you know, many other organizations use the board as well. Don't you know most of the major media uses it as well as programs for their own research?

Now, to the point of moderators. I actually think we should start moderating the board from our end, though probably not in the way you typically picture a moderator. For now, members of my staff are only looking for incidents of profanity. Nothing more, nothing less. It might be a good idea to train them to look for incidents of flames and disruptive posting and simply pass that along to me or someone I appoint on my staff to take a quick look at. We are approaching 1,000 posts a day and it is utterly impossible for me or anyone else to know what all of those posts are about each day. And given my other responsibilities as a business owner and travel, there are times where I have to go for weeks without seeing the board. With a little more responsibility on our end, I think we can speed up the time to action (and only if necessary) of addressing flame wars and posting irregularities. I don't view this as moderation because these employees won't actually be addressing the issues themselves, rather they will serve as an early warning system. Now you might say that members of the board all ready function as that. Very true, but the major difference here is that the issue becomes internal to deal with. Currently when the community chimes in for censure, it becomes a whole other topic and that we've seen is almost too much. MileageGod69 was such an example. As many of you know, I personally contacted him and he was fine with my request to talk travel in a public way of contributing to the board, but that was only well after it had already erupted into public censure and the ensuing threads. Moderators are a good idea, my reserve on that is similar as to what is most common among those who have posted here, is a moderator an editor? I hope not, because there have been quite a few threads so articulated here that they have changed my opinion on a few things and I'd hate to think that I may have "moderated" them simply because they weren't in the mainstream of opinions. Let's see what this thread continues to gather for thoughts and come up with a plan.

And, you have again reminded me of something long overdue (thanks Doc), we do need to do a better job of posting the "rules of the board." Consider that a priority around here as of now. I think Doc provided some excellent backgorund on what the rules might contain, any other issues that are outstanding that you all think would be beneficial to address for first timers and also to remind some of us that have been around the board?

As always....simply thanks.

Thanks very much Randy! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

VERY interesting!

Wow, Randy I thought you would be TOTALLY against any form of moderation....but granted, we have never met.

Moderators are NOT editors. They do exactly what you "propose"...watch out for things that get out of hand...not things off topic or not the popular opinion. They simply watch and warn (either internally or directly, depending on the model).

Like I have stated here and elsewhere...I really believe it is inevitable as the # of users grow. As something becomes more popular, fringe personalities wind up joining and changing the flavour of the board. For it to change too much too rapidly would mean valuable posters departing (IMO). Don't misunderstand, change is a reality...but through negative or highly disruptive posts/people...this is not change for the better.

My opinions (once more http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif)

Dorian



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Dorian's Star Alliance RTW Price Chart: http://www.informationlab.com/rtw.htm
Blondebomber's Star Alliance Comparison Chart: http://members.home.net/deercroft/starall00.html

Randy, since you have solicited opinions, here's mine:

Moderators: No.

Board Monitor: Yes.

I think just an email address to someone that is present in your office most of the time to react in a timely manner to any obscene posts, and to "speed up the time to action (and only if necessary) of addressing flame wars and posting irregularities.", would be sufficiant. How much or if you give that person authority to edit or delete posts, I assume you would decide based on your criteria.

Just sort of a "FlyerTalk 911" thing, when and where quick action is needed.

Personally, I've been lucky enough to have never seen a FlyerTalk post that I felt should be deleted or edited by FlyerTalk. I have seen some rather unfortunate comments that I would have hoped would have been edited or deleted by their author, however. But I would never suggest censoring even those, and prefer to let them stand as a sort of "monument" as to that person's character, so that others that come after can make their own personal assessment as to the caliber of the person in question.

IMHO.

Well, as for opinions, mine would be that this is a silly discussion about closing the barn door after the horses left months ago.

Good friends have reduced their posts to almost a trickle. Others have sworn-off FT for good.

We begged for a small number of fully moderated forums, where one could still go for quality, and the rest open forums for any and all. Too late.

When was the last time the Northwest rep who used to be here or the Hilton rep who used to be here participated in a discussion? After the first personal attack they saw, or the first flame war with obnixous, racisist, or stupid posts they saw, Flyertalk became just another internet buliten board to them.

...you don't know what you got till it's gone....

"Well, as for opinions, mine would be that this is a silly discussion about closing the barn door after the horses left months ago.
Good friends have reduced their posts to almost a trickle. Others have sworn-off FT for good.

We begged for a small number of fully moderated forums, where one could still go for quality, and the rest open forums for any and all. Too late.

When was the last time the Northwest rep who used to be here or the Hilton rep who used to be here participated in a discussion? After the first personal attack they saw, or the first flame war with obnixous, racisist, or stupid posts they saw, Flyertalk became just another internet buliten board to them.

...you don't know what you got till it's gone...."

-----

FWIW, for the record, with all due respect to your opinion, I, for one, do NOT agree.

First, I can NOT see where this is "silly discussion" at all -quite the contrary! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I'm baffled! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif Are you really saying that if ability to post had been limited to just what you call "good friends" earlier that FT might well have somehow been "saved?"

As I see it, people come and people go, as they see fit - for various reasons - mostly unbeknownst to me! Yet others are surely far wiser than I!

And also, sorrowfully, I'd missed these occassion(s) when the "we" had "begged for a small number of fully moderated forums" - perhaps you could better direct me and others who might be interested or ideally supply links to these threads? Please accept my apologies, but I missed this and my efforts in reviewing past threads have proved futile thusfar. Or were they by chance done via private email or via some other private means?

Might someone kindly please explain to those less gifted such as myself why it is "too late" rather than simply perhaps "a bit overdue" also escapes me. Is this an "irreversible" situation? Apparently the death toll has already been rung! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif I hope not! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

To think that as this occurred, I was actually a witness - even a participant! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

And while MJW left long ago, for the record, she is the only one of which i'm aware. Adams last participation, at least of which I know, was just a few weeks ago:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum57/HTML/000726.html

And Hyatt, Starwood, and so on, continue to be helpful contributors, IMHO, and others have lurked quietly in the background.

Is it possible that the folks who leave, like the industry reps of which you speak, actually dissassociate from FT due to the incessant complaining? Who's to say - besides they themselves?

-Mark, another IMperfect poster who just happens to enjoy FT! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

NJDavid I diasgree. The airline/hotel reps who participate here should expect some kind of criticism. After all, weren't you the one who was complaining about Hilton comping others gold status and "diluting" the program, a year after you were the beneficiary of comping by Hilton. And if you look at things in balance, an overwhelming majority of posters are supportive of the reps. There may be a small minority who is ticked off by a bad experience, but if you take a look at things in perspective you will find that most people in FT are very appreciative of the presence of the reps. As doc mentions, there are many still around. I can't count the number of times the Starwood rep has received a well deserved kudos and thanks.

I myself was gone for several months as a result of personal attacks and flames. I am back now and this board seems to be thriving. I am sorry that your good friends have gone, but many of the old timers and people that I respect are still here and still posting a lot. FT is no longer what is was in its initial days and while we may miss the old days, change is inevitable.

I appreciate the differing opinions, and respect your rights to have them.

I broke my own rules posting on this topic in the first place, as I'm trying to limit my FT activities to strictly ON-TOPIC (miles, points, traveling) discussions.

But the answers to all of your questions are in past threads. I leave it for those with more time than I and/or a better memory to post links.

As for your other questions:

It is "too late" for those that have stopped participating. Again, searches will reveal those names. The comment stands for itself.

The requests by myself and others for moderators go back a long time, and were made frequently. It has always been debated, with some feeling strongly on both sides. So the "we" in that statement is referring to myself and those that agreed at the time, not everyone here then or now. If one takes easily to insult, then please forgive the license.

Clearly Flyertalk had the opportunity at one time to be the de-facto site to represent the frequent traveler in expressing (as a group) the needs of this rather unique community. Just as clearly (in my mind) flame wars, conga lines, bigotry, trolling, and simple growth made Flyertalk embark upon a different direction. It may be exactly as some participants wanted. Terriffic, I'm happy for those in that group. For me, this will always be a clear example of what might have been.

If moderators are not needed here, then surely they are not needed for the scheduled special "chat" sessions run by the Webflyer staff. Let's let that be a live, free-flowing forum where the loudest and most frequent voice dominates the discussions. If however, everyone can see why there would be no point to allowing that type of uncontrolled forum when Randy's precious time is involved, everyone should see that allowing Flyertalk to be controlled by the loudest and most frequent voice when our time is involved is just as ridiculous.

Hey...you get what you pay for.

Hopefully, we all appreciate the differing opinions and respect each others rights to have them.

"I leave it for those with more time than I and/or a better memory to post links"

Well, I'd hoped you would indulge me after I'd noted my lack of success in understanding these points you'd raised and I'd wrongfully assumed that if you had the time to raise such points that you also had the time to back it up - but I'll survive either way! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

There is no dispute that some left- it is just unclear why. "Good friends," for example, had opined in the past several times that PG had left due to the declining "quality" and low "signal to noise ratio" on the board due to the proliferation of posts and particularly due to abusers who post too much. Yet he has stated various times that it was the bitterness/ acrimony/ flaming, etc, often about this very topic (and others) that, in part, lead to his sabattical. I can NOT assume why people leave!

Moreover, PG, and others as well have left and then returned, making your "too late" comment somewhat difficult for me to comprehend!

"So the 'we' in that statement is referring to myself and those that agreed at the time"

No insult and no apology necessary. This issue has arisen before, and I do personally feel strongly that people can surely best speak for themselves if they so wish -not to preclude the possibility of any FT'er publically appointing a spokesperson for themselves- and Mr Lockhart, having left the White House, may now available! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

"Clearly Flyertalk had the opportunity at one time to be the de-facto site to represent the frequent traveler in expressing (as a group) the needs of this rather unique community..."

I thought it still IS THE site! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Personally, I have absolutely NO agenda and it is what Randy wants that matters to me as a participant. He is the authority as the host or more accurately the owner and the supervisor/manager! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

We participate, or do not, to whatever extent that we see fit at any given time!

For example, while I like FT and like Randy, at the Awards luncheon I did not quite like to go up on stage for photos of the presentation of the Freddie Award to "US" Flyertalkers- only because I had/have some misgivings about the award, in terms of where it came from, how it was awarded and so forth. To some extent, these concerns have been allayed and my reticence has abated somewhat. Yet this was and will always be my individual choice! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

FWIW, as I said above here and previously, I'm not opposed to moderators, nor do I agree however that FT is now "controlled by the loudest and most frequent voice when our time is involved"

It's not perfect, or more appropriately "purrrfect" as Catman would say, but it's now the best available forum for sure, IMHO- and those who care, which presumably includes you, can certainly improve it by participating in a constructive manner and shaping it to improve and make it better and more in line with your dreams "of what might have been".

Hoping your dreams are soon fulfilled! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Mark

Life is not a place where it pays to take oneself too seriously. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I agree with doc on some points. While I've been on FT for only about 6 months, I have seen what many have called the decline, thought it probably started before I came along.

Well, we can't do anything about the past, and dwelling on "what might have been" won't accomplish anything. So let's focus our energy on making FT as good as it possibly can. A return to the so-called glory days is not impossible, and perhaps "what might have been" can still be.

Many good points here.

Nothing will ever be as it was yesterday.
Coke is no longer a dime a bottle, haircuts are not a quarter, and Buddy Holly or Elvis, or even the Eagles do not top the charts or the radio playlists. Times move on. People come, people go. From here, from sporting clubs, from social groups. For all kinds of personal reasons.

Looking inward and looking back is not positive. Today and tomorrow are what really count in the real world. If the useage of FT has grown 1000% from the "old days" it might irk some, and delight others, as there is 10 times more info and users to learn from .... or ignore as they see fit. As Doc says, it is Randy's board, and how he'd like to see it run is the last word.

------------------
~ Glen ~

Randy: Have you considered the legal ramifications of moderating Flyertalk internally?

While the case law is still clearly evolving, last I heard self-moderation of an internet bulliten board by the company that owns it raises the likelihood of losing a civil lawsuit over what people post on that board. While some cases have been lost by sponsors of unmoderated boards as well, the legal wisdom seems to be that moderation equals consent to things that are left on the board by the company that is moderating.

Admittedly, this info is from the last time I attended a seminar on this issue which was six months ago, but you ought to check into it just to cover your rear.

And for those of you moaning to yourselves about my raising this point, it just goes to once again prove what the plaque on my wall says in bright pink:

NEVER ASK A LAWYER OR AN ACCOUNTANT FOR BUSINESS ADVICE. THEY ARE TRAINED TO FIND PROBLEMS, NOT SOLUTIONS.

Full discolsure: I am not a lawyer but I play one at work http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by kokonutz (edited 10-12-2000).]

Hey, Koko, have you gotten to the episode where the guy sues his friends for posting pictures of him in New York, in a bathrobe, with the rose in his teeth, on the internet? I think they called it Defamation of a Character. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Seriously, folks, I think letiole is right on here. MileageGod was an abberation and, as I recall, several FlyerTalkers (who obviously cared enough about the quality of the board to become vigilante moderators in a time of emergency) jumped in to warn Randy, post-haste, and the matter was dealt with.

In everyday Life on the Boards, I think we (in general) enjoy a very high level of intelligence and civility which has led to, and continues to lead, to the development of a unique and wonderful community of adventurers, worldwide. It has added a a whole new and exciting dimension to my life in my declining years.

Certainly there are some posters whom we just like more than others, and certainly there are times when some persons (of an undisclosed gender) whip out their measuring sticks and start playing one upsmanship, but, alas, folks, that is just the nature of the beast. Go into you company lunchroom during football, baseball.........season. How much difference does any of it make in your real world?

If something truly bothers me enough to think about it after I read it, I simply e-mail the poster concerned and as politely and diplomatically as I know how, express my thoughts. It has always worked for me. If they don't have an e-mail address, in my mind they don't really exist, so I completely disregard anything they had to post.

Yes, there are people who will come and go for their own reasons and that's is just the way it is. If it is someone for with whom I have developed a friendship, I will continue to maintain that relationship off the boards. Otherwise, I look joyfully forward to the new friends I will meet in this wonderful place.

[This message has been edited by essxjay (edited 10-13-2000).]

As a point of clarification, I am fully aware that not all members of the undisclosed gender are always obsessed with measuring. There are most certainly many who have moved beyond, more, better, bigger, smarter, righter, faster, newer, and richer to attempt, in most instances, to achieve a Buddha Like Freedom in their lives, often exhibiting extraordinary acts of kindness, tolerance, generosity and acceptance.

I beg those of you who have done so, to accept my most humble apology for painting with too broad a brush. Sometimes I become myopic. Perhaps I am distracted by my obsession to avoid achieving wrinkles and a Buddha Like Belly.



[This message has been edited by Punki (edited 10-13-2000).]

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

You know, punki, I never have seen those supposed photos. Then again, maybe it's better that way... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Punki. I also had such an obsession. Once. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

On moderators, from a moderator, at Planebusiness:

"That's easy... Try to keep the discussion civil and on-topic. For some forums, that is more of a challenge than others!
Moderators have the power to edit and even delete posts which cross the line, but I don't see where that has been used that often on this board. We also have the ability to move threads between forums as needed, and to close threads.

I try to check my forum at least twice a day, but fortunately things have been quiet lately there, and in general, the discussion here on PBB are usually quite civil and don't require a lot of watching over.

Give it a try. You can always give it up if you don't like it."
http://www.planebusiness.com/ubb/For...ML/000039.html

The time for moderators may well have already arrived, as manifested by recurring threads like this one:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum20/HTML/001517.html

If we continually show that we can not moderate ourselves, then we will surely bring a moderated format to FT! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Hello all.

While I have chosen not to post for quite some time, I still
do lurk. I'm not sure why I am posting now...but perhaps to
set the record straight. I left the board because I felt harrassed
by one particular FT-er. It did not seem to be good use of my time
to continue as an active participant. Not enough fortitude on my
part, I guess! There are numerous NW staff
that follow FT with
great interest, though, so keep up the chat -
positive or negative.

Regards,
MJW

What, an NW basher on these boards? Never heard of that.

GEE DOC, didn't I predict you would run and complain to daddy?

How many forums are you going to post this in? This is number 3...

The thread to the other two: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/003661.html

Cigarman you are entitled to your opinion. Over an Altbier on the weekend I'm sure we will discuss this and many others things! I look forward to it.

These 70 Flyertalkers, from FlyerTalk Badgeholder #1 down, are of course entitled to their opinion too:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/003584.html


The entire country of Australia comes to a complete halt in an hour's time for the 140th running of the Melbourne Cup. I wish I could have my money on such a clear favourite as DOC at 70 to 1 odds! Or 70:2 or 70:5 or wow, even 70:10. Those look about the true odds from where I sit. It is a no contest race.

Would Flyertalk be a better, more informed place to visit if the hollow carping and outright hostility of a few of the several 1000 FT users drove Doc away? I'll give 2000 to 1 odds on the concensus answer to that. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

------------------
~ Glen ~



[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited 11-06-2000).]

"Hello all.
While I have chosen not to post for quite some time, I still
do lurk. I'm not sure why I am posting now...but perhaps to
set the record straight. I left the board because I felt harrassed
by one particular FT-er. It did not seem to be good use of my time
to continue as an active participant. Not enough fortitude on my
part, I guess! There are numerous NW staff
that follow FT with
great interest, though, so keep up the chat -
positive or negative.

Regards,
-------

Hello Mary Jo! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

To say that it is GREAT to hear from you would be a tremendous understatement! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Please see also:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum35/HTML/000921.html

Hi, MJW. It is a joy to see you on board again and quite a coincidence as well. Only yesterday, while eating lunch at MSP, I was thinking of you and how helpful you have been to me in the past.

I am happy to report that my flight, DCA/MSP/SEA, was most delightful. We came in way ahead of schedule, the service was great and I met the most delightful seatmate on the DCA/MSP leg. We were also able to switch seats to sit together again on the MSP/SEA leg and then shared a ride into SEA. I have a feeling we'll be friends for a long time to come. What a nice flight. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I don't know you Doc, but I agree with you on this one. Doc says:
From: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/003661.html

That's right on target. How about taking the bickering off line, to private e-mail?