changes to first flight ex Asia
 

Update March 14 ... what is the answer to this question:

Can the first segment of a xICN DONE3 purchased through AA be changed at no cost (even after the 10% discount is gone)? It seems that the written rules say yes, but that AA 'says' no.

Can someone point to written rules that would support AA's view point.


Original post:

Changes to the first flight:

Is the FAQ correct?

Q: Can I change my mind?
A: Yes, you will find the *ONE* to be a reasonably flexible ticket. For tickets originating in North or South America, changes to the first international flight and all preceding flights must be completed no later than 7 days before departure. Date/time changes are permitted at no charge, and subject to availability you can change the oneworld carrier you want to use without charge as long as there is no change in origin/destination and intermediate points (eg. changing BA to QF for a flight SYD-LHR). Changes other than date/time (routing is the obvious change) incur a US$75 charge and the ticket is reissued, with some carriers charging you a service fee. For tickets originating elsewhere, changes to the first international flight and preceding flights are not permitted. Date/time changes are permitted at no charge, but routing changes incur a US$75 charge, and again some carriers charge you a service fee. The rules don't state that routing changes in this case are a reissue (see below about what happens if the rules change). The number of continents/extra flight segments may be increased or decreased and you will be charged/refunded accordingly. If you need to cancel before departure, tickets originating in North or South America incur a penalty of 10% of the ticket price, tickets originating elsewhere incur no penalty. If you need to cancel after departure, all tickets other than those originating in SWP (no penalty) or Japan (lower of 10% penalty or JPY50,000) incur a 10% penalty. You may get a refund of the unused portion of your ticket based on the cost of the flights used to date and the penalty due.

Versus rules

-- ORIGIN TC1 --
BEFORE TICKET ISSUANCE - PERMITTED WITHOUT
PENALTY.
AFTER TICKET ISSUANCE - CHANGES TO THE FIRST
INTERNATIONAL FLIGHT AND PRECEDING FLIGHTS ARE
NOT PERMITTED LESS THAN 7 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE
OF THE FIRST TICKETED FLIGHT. DATE/TIME CHANGES TO
OTHER FLIGHTS PERMITTED AT NO CHARGE. DATE/TIME/ ONEWORLD CARRIER CHANGES ARE PERMITTED WITHOUT ‡
REISSUE PROVIDED ORIGIN/DESTINATION/CONNECTING
POINTS AND INVENTORY REMAIN THE SAME. CHANGES
OTHER THAN TO DATE/TIME/ONEWORLD CARRIER PERMITTED
AT A CHARGE OF USD125.00 PER TRANSACTION.

-- ORIGIN TC2/3 --
UNLIMITED CHANGES PERMITTED WITHOUT CHARGE. DATE/
TIME/ONEWORLD CARRIER CHANGES ARE PERMITTED
WITHOUT REISSUE PROVIDED ORIGIN/DESTINATION/
CONNECTING POINTS AND INVENTORY REMAIN THE SAME.

I believe the problem is that many GDS cannot properly handle changes to the first flight of a booking without a complete re-issue. So, while the rules might indicate you can, the point may be moot.

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8100/4.2.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)

If it is electornic does that matter?

I want to buy a ticket from AA ex ICN... will I be able to change my initial icn nrt dps flight.

We are a family of 5 ... I can only get 4 D seats on jal. For myself I was thinking of taking L and waitlisting or D on a different day and changing the date (which is probably better if date changes are easy)

Thoughts?

Ps what should the FAQ say?

Yes. Your departure date must correspond to the date the ticket is issued on. If it does not match, you won't be able to check in. Hence the ticket must be reissued to the new dates. If a reissue is made in this case, the airline CRS will not make a change without a complete reissue, ie change fee.

For an electronic ticket what does re-issue mean? Isn't just a phone call?

Isn't a re-issue ex-ICN just as easy as a call?

i.e. changes to first flight ex-ICN are easy?

What is a re-issue?

Reissue?
 

Even if there is no physical ticket, the airlines consider this to be a 're-issue' and a new document number will be generated / used showing the new date(s). Ergo you pay.

As far as a AA RTW DON3 'you pay' Do you pay for a new ticket or do you pay $100-$150?

I want to take advantage of purchasing a additional ex-ICN DONE3 starting later this year. I want to have flexibility changing the DATE (not routing) of the first flight (i.e. ICN-NRT-ORD). Can I have that flexibility at a reasonable cost?

Huh? Guy, did you mean "for" instead of "on" at the end of the above quote? You don't have to travel the same day on which the ticket is issued....

Still looking for an answer to the original question.

I don't think you'll get a definitive answer in advance because it is open to interpretation. We can speculate all we like, but only the airlines can tell us for sure.

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8900/4.6.1.114 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)

Legalistically speaking can someone point or interpret rules justyfying a ch
arge. Thanks!

I have a vested interest in this question also, so I just called AA RTW again and was told quite definitely that any change (including date/time/carrier) to the first flight, will require re-issue and repricing at the then current prices and rules. Thus you would lose the 10% discount and be subject to any subsequent price increases.

Unfortunately this is the same answer that I got last year, when the more important issue was whether a 20 segment RTW would be reduced to 16 segments if you wanted to change the first flight. (Yes it would!).

It does mean that you have to pick your first flight VERY carefully!

Happy Travels.

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8900/4.6.1.114 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)

What is the possible legal / rule reason when it seems like other OneWorld partners do not charge? Does anyone see any ambigous rule interpretation? Seems if it got into a legal fight that the passenger should prevail.

I was told today by the AA RTW desk that it's not just the first flight, but that any changes to the first inter-continental flights, would incur a $125 fee. So, for an ex-ICN DONE4, starting ICN-HKG-SYD, changing anything, including the date or carrier, for either the ICN-HKG or the HKG-SYD flight, would cause the fee.

I don't see anything in the OW rules that justify a fee. On the contrary, an ex-Asia xONEx should permit changes for free, according to my reading of the rules:16(a)(1)(b)(1) says to me that date/time/carrier/inventory changes, even to first flights, are permitted for free.

I guess most of the ATW itineries the AA ATW agents see are ex TC1, so the USD125 applies generally in their perception. (i.e. Most of the time they are correct in citing this.)

Have you put that specific TC2/TC3 part of the rules to them?

Changes to the first segment of AA issued xONEx's require re-issuing, irrespective of what the rules state.

I have been led to believe this is because the SABRE system cannot cope otherwise.

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8900/4.6.1.114 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)

What does their 'systems' or what they 'want' to do have to do with their legal obligations and what the written rules say. It does seem that the legally and by the rules the first segment is changeable.

I guess if you wish to deal with AA; you'll will have to work it out with them.

Irrespective of anything, they will re-issue. If you are not commencing in TC1 you should not have to pay a USD125 fee; but you'll have to convince AA of that.

There's nothing further I can post on this matter.

Do you know if there are OW partners who do not charge?

I did a change before the 10% discount went away...no charges...AA was very helpful.

Has anyone done a change after the 10% went away?

I tried and failed. The problem is that they will need to reissue against the new rules/rates. Now that is not too much of a problem if you want to change a ticket for which the price has not risen. In my case (bought the ticket 10 months ago) it would mean an additional ZAR3500,-.

The $125,- fee is not required if the flight is only a date/carrier change.

AA has more problems than Amadeus based carriers like BA. CX has issues too and I do not know about JAL.

Mind you: I am just basing this on my own experience. Not an expert.

The AA systems have problems with D/AONEx's anyways. A lot of people cannot retrieve their itinerary online.

This is going to be a big problem for anyone that has purchased xONEs during the 10% sale period with AA. Just been dealing with AA DUB on a post 10% DONE3 (ex ICN) date change. As suggested above they are claiming I need to reissue and now pay the 10% fare difference. Interestingly they dont seem to be charging me the $125 reissue fee. I have pointed out to them the rules at the time of purchase clearly state for TC2/3 there should be no charge for time date/change. They claimed that there is some rule I had missed so I asked them to send me that rule and I would be happy to pay.

Got a reply today saying "Unfortunately, for security reasons, American Airlines can not give out confidential IATA rules to passengers". While reply is utter nonsense (and most lilkely violating multuple consumer protection laws) I am not sure what my next move can be. I am reluctant to pay but unless I do something I will end up with the 5% no show penalty. Though of perhaps just contacting CX and trying to get the date change through (since they have 1st segment) and hope it jsut goes through but suspect the 001 ticket number will create problems.

There is no charge for re-issuance before departure as the rules you stated. Changes to first segment requires ticket re-issuance and repricing using current fare/rules. This is an IATA rule applying to all international fares.@:-) It is in IATA ticketing manual, not in fare rules.

The only way around it is to make many confusing changes so that the ticket agent will make a mistake. :p

I'm a bit confused about what exact changes to the first segment will require this reissuance.

I note, for example, that after the sale expired, CX has reconfigured their ICN - HKG flight schedule (cancelled flight 417 and reaccomodated us on flight 415).

In this circumstance, does AA need to reissue our tickets? If so, how exactly is the extra 10% finessed away? If AA doesn't need to reissue our tickets, could someone please explain why/why not?

Thanks in advance!

I'd like to understand this better as well.

We have an ex-ICN DONE4 starting in January 2010 where the first flight was the now-cancelled CX ICN-HG flight. I thought at the time that 10:15 AM was too early, and now it's been cancelled and we've been switched to the 8:50 AM flight. (The afternoon flight won't let us make our connections HKG-SYD-CHC.)

Our TA thinks we can decide later if we want to change the ICN-HKG flight, and if so, do it without penalty (e.g., to take the afternoon flight and add an extra overnight in HKG). I've not had any experience changing the first flight of a RTW ticket.

Duplicate post. :o

It should be fine as your first segment was canceled.@:-)

The ticket should still be re-issued. CX will add INVOL to the fare calc line without fee or re-pricing, although this should cover your first segment and connection only. Note this requires manual pricing and may take a few hours. For same day flight, sometimes they will take care of it at the airport, just accept the original ticket and manually check you in.

Just became a lot more than 10% if you need to reissue

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/onewo...ricing-up.html

Would be working on keeping those flights