Same Cities count as a segment
 

Recently I made a reservation with what I only thought had 16 segments. In fact only had 16 flight segments.

The first AAgent claimed that sames cities (LHR/LGW, EWR/LGA/JFK, etc) as described in https://www.aa.com/content/disclaime...ld_rules.jhtml do NOT count as a stopover, NOR an open jaw, but they DO count as a segment.

Thus if you have 16 real flights then you cannot have any of those be in connections in same cities (as this would increase the count of segments to 17).

I called back, got a different AAgent and tried to re-ticket. After a day the itn had not ticketed, the 2nd [and 3rd] AAgent also confirmed this.

AA will not ticket it because it cannot e-ticket a 17-segment itineray.

If the final city is ORD then you cannot stopover there.

I finalised an itinerary on a OW J award that (mistakenly) had a MIA-GRU leg in F. The agent sent it for supervisor review and ticketing and before it was issued I found I was bumped back to J. In other words, it's pretty certain the "error" will be picked up.

Is LHR-ORD-DFW on one flight number (AA67)? If so, it counts as one segment (two sectors).

I suppose they can always hand-write the ticket - hopingthat that someone still knows how to do it manually !

The 16-segment limit also applies to handwritten tickets.

LGA/JFK AA claims this counts as a segment HELP
 

I have made a reservation with 16 segments

Within the itn the segments are

2/15/07 4: TVC-ORD
2/15/07 5: ORD-LGA
2/15/07 6: JFK-MAD
2/16/07 7: MAD-LHR

I have a total of 16 flight segments, but since they want to count this open jaw as a segment now I have 17.

This does not seem right since their website specially states that LGA/JFK/EWR are the same city.

Try calling back AA and refer them to their oneworld award ticket routing rules website.

I will, but I was on the phone already 45 minutes while this AAgent supposedly made sure.

If it is an OW Award flight , then the information you require is all nicely provided on the AA website at http://www.aa.com/content/disclaimer...ld_rules.jhtml

It also lists airports within cities which will not count as a open jaw. For New York, the airports are :

Newark - EWR
White Plains/Westchester - HPN
John F Kennedy - JFK
LaGuardia - LGA
Islip/Long Island - ISP

Whether it counts as a segment I don't know

Dave

Dave

I know this is not what you are saying, but could it possibly be that the open jaw that's creating the problem is not the NYC stop, but a first/last city one, and the agent is confused?

Nicely spotted. If the JFK/LGA was being viewed as an open jaw then the trip would be invalid since it would give 2 open jaws ( despite it conflicting with what AA defines as open jaw for an OW award on their website )

Dave

If AA has to issue the ticket, there is no possible way for them to 'delete' the segment. Each airport has to have a code ,and basically JFK and LGA occupy two codes, hence two segments. So if you exceed, that's because each airport requires a seperate booking segment.

Can you not fly ORD-MAD instead of going via NYC?

On oneworld tickets? No - that's 20 segments!

The 16 segment rule applies for all automated ticketings.. e-ticket or paper. Beyond that, AA must write out a manual ticket.

Or else AA may transfer the booking to a SABRE equipped TA and they can issue up to 24 segments on paper automated. But you only need 20 anyway.

There are flights from ORD-JFK too which avoids the LGA-JFK segment however there is only economy class on those flights

Dave

I believe the OP is talking about an AAdvantage one world award (quite why this is in OW forum and not in AAdvantage forum I don't know), not a paid fare.

Who knows how the computer is programmed for complex itins like this. If you are going to create complex routings to maximise your value you have to expect sometimes to run up against limits of computer. No problem with paper ticket, but the OP wanted an e-ticket.

Yeah.. I think we either spoil or confuse these newbies too much !

True - it's an award - it's not this forum's problem.

Feedback: when I called back the AAgent quickly noticed the problem. The first agent had messed up. Only 16 segments are allowed.

Feedback: I called back. I think have it ticketed with 16 segments and co-terminals LGA/JFK included (i.e. confidently told the next AAgent to make the change and gave her a credit card).

Based on the rules this seems right anyway.

If there is an issue it will be picked up before ticketing , so keep a track on it having been issued.

Dave

So, if I want a 24 segment oneworld award using American Airlines miles, all I have to do is ask AA to handwrite the ticket or transfer the booking to a Sabre equipped travel agent? If so, I must have misconstrued the previous flyertalk discussions about this limit and will certainly change the sticky as soon as this ticketing possibility is confirmed.

You guys are confusing me. Should this almost 2-year old thread be transferred to the AA forum? And should future threads about oneworld awards instead be in the forum of the airline whose miles are being used for the award?

Questions about awards are specific to the airline, there isn't a standard set of award rules across all the OW carriers so it would make more sense for it to be located in the carrier specific forum

Im confused about the 2 years ago comment; from what I see, this thread is < 2 days old

Dave

No. The AA awards are , as detailed in the award rules link earlier in the thread "Itinerary may not exceed 16 segments. "


Dave

I believe Austinrunner is talking about the sticky post he authored.

The issue of a proper "home" for the AA oneworld award sticky has been discussed before, and obviously there are mixed opinions. IMO there's no perfect forum for it so it might as well stay here, where its author meant it to be. It has been crosslinked in an AA forum sticky, so little harm is done by letting things as they are.

Sorry, my error! I was indeed referring to the sticky that I authored and maintain.

I dunno. I would have thought that if posting a question which is specifically about an AAdvantage award would have found a perfect home in the AAdvantage forum .

I would have seen this akin to posting a question about a AA partner award where booking travel on BA in the BA forum

*shrug*

Dave

That would make the most sense to me. Each FFP has its own set of rules. As this thread illustrates it can get confusing at times to be discussing an award ticket for a particular FFP.

In *A, mostly, the threads relating to awards and award rules are posted in the home airline forum. This not only reduces confusion but also provides more visibility to the question in the forum with more FTers who are familiar with the intracacies of the award rules.

Yet, the title of this thread specifically references "AA miles.":rolleyes:

On the other hand, AA calls this award a "oneworld" award.

So - other FFPs also have something called a OneWorld award, but yet the rules are very different.

And surprisingly, it's not obvious that a "oneworld award" unlike a "oneworld RTW" would have carrier-specific differences. I myself would not have made that assumption off the top of my head, simply because it's not the type of award I've ever booked.

So while I agree, now knowing that it's AA-specific, I cannot fault the question being asked here in error.

Steve

Very true, hence the reason that I entitled the stickey "oneworld awards using
American Airlines miles." And this is the reason that various contributors to this forum have suggested the creation of other stickeys containing the rules for other oneworld airlines, e.g., "oneworld awards using Qantas miles."

That wouldn't do as it would get in the way of all the OT threads. ;)

But if someone pops onto FT looking for rules for a QFF award , where would be the obvious place to look , here or in the QF forum? I suggest that the logical place to look for/ask about QFF awards would be the QF forum.

Also, should someone manage to get the hang of the search function, would someone be more likely to search the forum of the scheme or not?

Personally I think that the OW forum is perfect for dealing with OW products since they are standard regardless of who isssues them, but that the own carrier forum is the best place for FF scheme specific questions

Dave

Here here! ^

Whilst I love reading the OW forum, the biggest problem is that sometimes people seem to assume that it is an extension of AAnother forum, despite the fact that OW is a partnership of 8 airlines (soon to be 10).

I disAAgree. ;)

I noticed that AA oneWORLD award specific sticky many moons ago and wondered about it.

I came to the conclusion that the reality is that AA do have the largest proportion of oneWORLD frequent flyer members and this us a USA based website; so it's possibly better off here than on the AA forum where it might get 'drowned' by all the other posts in that prolific forum.

The questions pertain to OneWorld and the expertise within this forum cannot be replicated within the other airline forums.

I don't know how different the rules are withing BA/Qantas/etc. versus AA, but I I like the expertise being stored withing the OneWorld forum.

Conversely, I don't think many people in AA even know these AAwards exist and would benefit from OneWorld discussion from time to timel.

Since it appears we are in a generic two-cent throwing mood here, let me just add that I'm perfectly happy with the sticky being here rather than in the AA forum. While I agree it might not fit perfectly, I think it works well here.