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-   -   "Surface" travel IST-DXB (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/oneworld/421928-surface-travel-ist-dxb.html)

preimroc Apr 14, 2005 5:29 pm
"Surface" travel IST-DXB
 
Hello,

preparing my second AONE4, I am stuck with the following problem : I want to travel between IST & DXB on SQ ; for OWE purposes, it is a surface segment.
1) Is it allowed? (the star files mention surface permitted within the Middle East but not between Europe & ME).
2) If it is, is it deducted from the total segment count of 20?

TIA,

P

jerry a. laska Apr 14, 2005 5:57 pm
Originally Posted by preimroc
Hello,

preparing my second AONE4, I am stuck with the following problem : I want to travel between IST & DXB on SQ ; for OWE purposes, it is a surface segment.
1) Is it allowed? (the star files mention surface permitted within the Middle East but not between Europe & ME).
2) If it is, is it deducted from the total segment count of 20?
TIA,
P
Surface segments are permitted on a OWE. They will count as a stopover (which only matters in your continent of origin).
149N STOPOVERS
150N ----------
151N .
152N . 1. A STOPOVER IS A BREAK OF JOURNEY OVER 24 HOURS.
153N . 2. STOPOVER PERMITTED ANYWHERE.
154N . 3. MAXIMUM 2 STOPOVERS PERMITTED IN THE CONTINENT
155N . OF ORIGIN.
The reference in the starfiles is about ending your OWE - origin to destination surface is permitted in the middle east.
110N . 4. ORIGIN-DESTINATION SURFACE PERMITTED:
111N . -WITHIN COUNTRY OF ORIGIN.-BETWEEN U.S.A-CANADA
112N . -WITHIN AFRICA
113N . -WITHIN THE MIDDLE EAST
114N . -BETWEEN HKG-CHINA
115N . -BETWEEN BANGLADESH-BKK/SIN
116N . -WITHIN SOUTH AMERICA
117N . -BETWEEN MAYLAYSIA-SIN
Surface segments do not count in the 20 segments allowed in a OWE.

preimroc Apr 14, 2005 6:13 pm
Thank you Jerry.
P

JohnAx Apr 15, 2005 12:05 am
Originally Posted by jerry a. laska
...snip...The reference in the starfiles is about ending your OWE - origin to destination surface is permitted in the middle east...
Are you really suggesting that one can have an open jaw as the "last segment" of an OWE, within the regions listed in your posting? That would mean that as a practical matter one could begin in JNB and end in NBO, or begin in IST and end in BAH, and I didn't think we had that kind of freedom.

WearyBizTrvlr Apr 15, 2005 12:36 am
Originally Posted by JohnAx
Are you really suggesting that one can have an open jaw as the "last segment" of an OWE, within the regions listed in your posting? That would mean that as a practical matter one could begin in JNB and end in NBO, or begin in IST and end in BAH, and I didn't think we had that kind of freedom.
Yes, it's been there for a while, and I think there have been ticketed trips posted here that make use of it. It's just seldom mentioned because most people start their RTWs in places like IST, where the rule does not apply (it's not part of the Middle East IIRC). And even if you start in CAI, going back there is attractive just to start the next one. You could start in CAI, end in DXB.

Viajero Apr 15, 2005 5:47 am
Originally Posted by JohnAx
...That would mean that as a practical matter one could... begin in IST and end in BAH...
Not exactly. As WearyBizTrvlr says the above would not work. For this specific rule Europe and the Middle East are not treated as one (the wording is "WITHIN THE MIDDLE EAST") so IST, being part of Europe, is excluded from the list of places where Origin-Destination surface is permitted.

JohnAx Apr 15, 2005 9:07 am
Originally Posted by WearyBizTrvlr
...snip...And even if you start in CAI, going back there is attractive just to start the next one. You could start in CAI, end in DXB.
I understand CAI/DXB is legal and have used it, but I thought that was a unique exception - CAI is part of "Europe", and CAI/BAH for instance probably would *not* be allowed. (???)

In Africa, starting in Zim and ending some place nearer civilization e.g. NBO might be useful to someone, although I don't see the allure of it.

Viajero Apr 15, 2005 10:27 am
Originally Posted by JohnAx
...CAI is part of "Europe"...
Not really. It is only for the purpose of defining the Continent that CAI is part of "Europe/Middle East"; for all other purposes, such as the rule about surface segments we are talking about, CAI is part of "Middle East", not Europe.

Edited to add: therefore to start in CAI and end in BAH would be allowed, as both are part of "Middle East".

jerry a. laska Apr 15, 2005 10:31 am
Originally Posted by JohnAx
Are you really suggesting that one can have an open jaw as the "last segment" of an OWE, within the regions listed in your posting? That would mean that as a practical matter one could begin in JNB and end in NBO, or begin in IST and end in BAH, and I didn't think we had that kind of freedom.
As the others said: yes. Provided there is an exception in the rule I listed. Hence start in CAI end in DXB is legal as you have said you have done. The reason you could do it was not by chance or mistake but because of the rule I quoted. Your NBO example would work also.

headinclouds Apr 15, 2005 2:00 pm
Also, start anywhere in South America and finish anywhere in South America. But the prices are the same as US so few people select this choice. Africa is enticing since Djibouti is the cheapest 1st class origination point, but you can end in NBO/JNB/CPT, etc.

JohnAx Apr 15, 2005 10:17 pm
Well, that's all good stuff to have in one's planning bag. About the only airline with a rate desk I'd trust to understand that such things are allowed would be CX's, though.


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