When Is A ONE Worthwhile?
 

I've been reading up on Round the World tickets for the last few months, including the FAQs here, and I am still fairly confused about this stuff. I finally figured that I am probably looking at this wrong, and maybe I should ask here either for resources or clarification.

Looking at One World Explorer tickets, it appears to me that I can pretty much get a better price on the tickets by buying the segments separately. An example of my known Itinerary in 2005 is as follows (with home being either the LAX, SNA or LGB Airports):

Home-JFK-Home-YVR-Home-MSY-Home-JFK-Home-MAD-AMS-Home-HNL-Home

Now I realize that much of these trips are domestic, North America trips. But the total cost of airfare for these trips in Coach (with a few domestic upgrades) is $1,800, or in F for $2,900. Assuming that I added in a stop or two in Asia, and did some of the North America trips on separate tickets outside a ONE ticket, and started my itinerary somewhere like Cairo or Bangkok, I would still be paying a minimum of $3,500 for coach or about $6,000 for F, right?

From a purely mileage perspective, you can buy trips separately at about a cost of 3-4 cents per mile. Can a ONE get you a lower dollar-per-mile ratio? It seems to me that, at 3 cents per mile, a ONE ticket would have to cost $1,500 or less to be worth the price (it seems that it's not likely to get more than 50,000 q-miles on a round the world ticket). Or is the cost of these tickets beside the point?

Obviously, I need to learn more, but I'm not sure where to look for the info.

I'll tell you why a OWE is valuable to me. A OWE allows me to fly FIRST class on long haul flights on the world's finest carriers. I don't have to agonize over finding award space available; I simply call up and ask for A inventory seats - which to date, I've had 100% success in getting for the dates I want to travel. I can fly over Christmas - or any holiday - there are no blackout dates.

I'm top tier on UA and AA, and routinely fly upgraded biz using my SWUs and VIPs. But that's nothing compared to the luxury of the first class cabin on international carriers. Back in the good old days - just two years ago, when we could get 36 segments on our 6 continent RTWs - I did a rough calculation of what it would cost me to buy the flights for which my $5K RTW ticket covered. It was over $100K. I dont' have that kind of money - but once in a while I can squeeze out the $5K (or $6K, where the 4 continent AONE is running ex-CAI these days).

I'm not looking at miles earned - although those are nice. I'm looking at the pure, unadulterated joy of flying in the best cabin in the best carriers in the sky. It is a joy.

I've been out of touch with rtw consolidator fares and the like since the day I took my first first-class ride on Singapore. Even without beds, they made it pretty much impossible to get me back to the rear of the bus without leaving a lot of claw and heel marks along the way.

But I believe the OP has a valid point. Back when I haunted the consolidator ads, I was aware that doing the same thing solely on respectable carriers would increase the cost by 50% or more. But I didn't mind the likes of Air India and nearly-bankrupt Pan Am too much, and at least in those days consolidator tickets were almost as flexible as OWE's, albeit without significant cross-carrier endorsement rights. At least they were good for a year, and changing travel dates invoked no penalty.

So if thrifty travel is the highest nail, OWE's probably don't come close to winning, especially if it's measured per trip instead of per mile.

But move up the food chain a bit and the picture changes. If very-comfortable travel (i.e. business class or better) is a requirement, there's no contest. Biz consolidator fares used to be very hard to find, and methinks there's a much bigger difference between Cathay biz and say AI biz than between their coach products. Depends on how you value the various elements of the experience, of course.

And even in coach, you can make the case that OWE is the greater bargain by using the ticket to its fullest. Segment-limited fares can go a long way, pun probably intended. I'm not sure what the record mileage for a 20-segment ticket is (imo pure MR's should be excluded and the perpetrator forced to wear a funny hat, but that's just me) but, spread out over the allowed year, it makes for a lot of happy travel. With, as noted above, a lot of freedom regarding schedule.

Bottom line, though: plan out the trip you really want to take, specify the cabin comfort and schedule flexibility you want to buy, and go price shopping.

I haven't done any of the math, but I'm wondering how you'd do just the Home-MAD-AMS-Home part for $2.900 in F (let alone the other 5 trips).

I agree with SanDiego 1K that one has fewer worries when flying in the front of the bus. Paid, though discount, premium fares gets better service from the ground staff (IMO) than those flying on an upgraded ticket. Plus the miles are between 50-60K miles times 1.5 which gets one very close to EXP the easy way. In the QF FFP one can earn oneworld emerald for 2 years with one ticket, if you like/use the QF FFP.

And for me, the AA RTW desk is super. Depending upon the situation, better than the EXP desk. For complex questions, I have a favorite agent that will handle my queries without a sweat and who I can request if I want to do so. Now, I must admit that the business class OWE are better value for AA, while the first class OWE are probably better in other airlines' FFP.

Check PresRDC's posts in the AA forum, Exec Plat with personal travel only? on how to do it with little time off from work.

To add an Australian perspective, the economy class OWE's are definitely good value in this part of the world. This is especially true if you're looking to include South American travel, which is generally a hideously expensive part of the world to get to from here. Certainly if you just wanted a simple trip there's a Lufthansa ticket available in Australia for under AU$1600 (US$1100) that gets you from Sydney to a number of places in Asia, then to Europe via Frankfurt, then onto US or Canada and then back to Australia. But if you're looking to go off the high traffic routes, then that's when the OWE comes into its own.

For my LONE5 trip it was approximately 50,000 miles, and a cost of US5c per mile. That was going places I actually wanted to go as well, not just to clock up the miles. Including destinations that only have monopoly services, such as Easter Island and Ayers Rock, it saves you a lot over single ticket prices. So from this part of the world anyway it definitely presents significant savings, from other parts of the world (such as the US) where the LONE's are higher priced and regular return airfares are lower then that value proposition wanes.

Ticket routes.
 

Perhaps you should look at ONE as a way to travel RTW and not just US domestic with a bit of pond hopping. Perhaps you should buy some of your US domestic tickets in Europe with a back to back transatlantic tickets if price is your main option and Y travel domestically is OK.

By including AMS and MAD in your plans, you miss out the joys of Higher Intermediate Fare destinations like London in your plans with the RTW allows. You may also be using NW and IB whereas the better carriers are not being used for some of the trips.

Just thoughts.

Other benefits / ONE
 

Other pluses of RTW:
1) You can change date of travel without penalty;
2) You can change routing for only $75.00 fee;
3) No fear whether you will/won't get that upgrade - you are guaranteed.
4) When flying on B/C RTW, you can upgrade AA flights with VIP's. I did LHR-LAX in First with Julie Andrews 2 seats away in July.
5) The Q-point and mileage bonuses are great, especially if you are EXP.
6) The RTW product really is good if you enjoy foreign travel. I usually go to New Zealand every year, so even to buy economy round-trip ticket probably would set me back close to $1,500 - $2,000.

(Off-Topic) Try doing business with whichever random AA agent answers the phone instead of asking for their star, and report back. I think it presumptuous to ask for her so I don't, and so far have experienced indifference and rudeness (although staff tends to be familiar enough with the rules.)

Actually, on that particular trip, I am flying AA from LAX-LHR, then connecting to BA with a trip running LHR-MAD-LHR-AMS-LHR. The whole trip (leaving LAX on May 27, returning June 11) cost $696 during a fare sale, with a 50k-miles upgrade (J on the AA legs, and I think F on the BA routes).

Edit: The remainder of the domestic trips are on AA.

OK, you've convinced me that you are misinformed and/or confused.

First off, BA does not offer F on its routes between London and Madrid or Amsterdam.

Second, the 25k (in each direction) upgrade from an economy fare would indded upgrade the AA flight, but it would not upgrade the segments operated by BA, even if it's an AA-numbered (code-share) flight.

In any case, to be fair one would value the trip at at least $1200, since the 50k miles are worth at least a penny. And the op isn't being deceitful, just hasn't found out that in Europe the airline marketing departments don't have the nerve to call their business class 'first class' as we do here.

Other costs/benefits not included in the equation: OWE offers near-certainty of travel in the chosen class, as opposed to upgrades, earns another $300 worth of miles if anyone is counting, and would earn the traveler AA plat status, albeit on this trip a bit late in the game. I guess the homeward leg would be the trigger, and earn the plat bonus.

ONE tickets are not booked in Q,W,Z classes so you would earn more miles on your trip and thus more free flights.

me and my partners last AONE4 was not mile maximised nor status but we still have earnt enough miles to get 2 x free biz tickets to the US on BA (amex voucher) and a free biz ticket to Asia

i paid $6,000 p/ticket so if i ws to go round the world again (as elite status) i would be earning near to 1 free rtw for every 3 booked, so depends on how you look at it
or in excess of 160k miles per trip which is a free tick in F to US ,
i would assume you would value that at a few thousand dollars

so for every 6k i spend i would value what i gain in points and status lounge access etc etc.. easily worth another 6K,
so the cost (to me) then makes more and more sense.

with planning you can get 20 flights with 60k miles for 5k approx in J, so would you think $250 a flight in J is expensive or cheap?

Right. I just had my secretary book and upgrade this trip through AA's Plat desk, so I was booked LAX-MAD-AMS-LAX and was then told that my routing was through Heathrow and using BA planes. On the upgrade, I was told that I was upgraded to Business Class on the AA flights, and to the front of the plane on the BA flights (I assume that they are codeshares, but I don't know yet because I haven't seen the tickets). I assumed that the words "to the front" meant first class, which is why I said that I think it was first class on BA. And I have no idea how exactly it was arranged. I just know that it was arranged, and $696 was deducted from my credit card account.

But all that is beside the point, which is when a One World Explorer is worth getting. Clearly it's not a bargain thing. What I am getting here is that it is more valuable when you use airlines other than AA, who have better and more expensive First Class Cabins, and you fly a lot internationally.

I would think it was expensive or about right for domestic, cheap for international. But I don't know that I could do 20 flights and take all that time off work, so it might not be possible for me to maximize the value of such a ticket.

J by the way would be F for you dom flights so is $250 still exp?

lucky you - near on impossible to get dom j tickets anywhere but the US for that price

regarding taking time off work..

you could fly out to europe in Y , buy a RTW ticket , do the 4 flights in europe and head back to USA, (holiday 1 Value of flights $3500+) then do your 6 segs in USA ( how ever many holidays you want this may be carib/ mex etc, then off to YVR for Sking etc. (so maybe 2 holidays value at least 2K) then fly off to Asia for (holiday 4 value lots (cx flights aren't cheap)
continue to Europe picking up your cheap Y rtn ticket you bought out there and upgrade with your shiny new top tier status..

that what i was going to do orig when i thought about the time off thing but in the end i thought stuff it- why work all the time, are you here to work or enjoy your limited time onthis planet?

That presumes a coach fare and a free sticker upgrade (which I've been batting 100% on in the last year), and not a purchased J fare, which is more expensive. But I like to look at actual prices paid, not hypothetical top-fare prices that I never have, and never would, pay in determining what is a good value.

Out here, near LAX, you can often find cheap coach fares about everywhere in the country. YVR is $149, ATL is $134, HNL is $250, LAS is $58, JFK is $203, FLL or MIA is $198, etc.

This is actually a very interesting question, IMO.

If you are comparing it with the cheapest way to get from point A to point B, it clearly is no bargain. However, that is not the comparison I make. For better or worse, I have gotten myself hooked on premium class travel and cannot go back to Y except on short flights. OWEs get me into the premium cabins (I AONEs, BTW) for, what for me, is an affordable price. For what I pay for my AONEs, I maybe could find a round trip F fare, probably on a second tier carrier, but that would be it. With the the AONE, for the same price, I can get an entire year of travel and can get either to or reasonably close to, anywhere in the world I want to go. While I take mileage into consideration when planning a route, I first consider where I want to go. Since I am a leisure-only flyer (for the moment, at least), I pick where I want to go and then devise a routing that maximizes the mileage. I would not avoid a place that I wanted to go to maximize mileage, but I will add cities that that I may not have considered top of my list to maximize miles (for example, doing a RT HKG-NRT-HKG turn or a RT from JFK to the Carribbean). Also, the miles I earn from one AONE are enough for two First Class award tickets, which covers most of my leisure travel for the next year. In other words, i get two years of travel value out of one AONE ticket. I am doing one this year, will use the miles I earned next year and do another AONE in 2006.

Most importantly, it is fun. I enjoy the entire flying experience and with an AONE ticket, I can maximize the pleasure of the experience.

With maybe one or two exceptions in a year, I, too, am a leisure only flyer. So, if you knew that you were going from LAX to, say, Vienna once, St. Lucia once, New York once, New Orleans once, Honolulu two or three times and Sydney once in a year, with some flexibility for other spots during the year, how would you go about deciding how to route your AONE?

and how many miles/ points do you earn for these?

it appears that you don't quite get it- as i said in the earlier post i also count up the value for the points earnt on the trip and what you are saying here wouldn't be earning the same rates as earnt on any ONE's so it might be cheaper by $50-$150 but i would value the points and staus (in particular) worth some where in between and if you could work out what "value" you have for the point/ status/ and travelling in these classes then you can decide for yaself.

for example - imho, given the choice for dom i would prob pay £40 or so extra to fly on BA rather than Ryanair for example (yes i can get a cheap fare but do i want it?) i can sit in the BA terraces on my cheap £70 rtn fair and drink £50 worth of PJ or travel ryanair and hate the whole journey.


i think the main diff is - BA or a few others would laugh you out of town with stickers , so comparing US with any other region doesn't make sense.

Ah, a challenge! ;)

First off, one area where XONE tickets are problematic is Hawaii. You are only allowed to fly once either to or from Hawaii and the mainland (using a North American segment). Once in Hawaii, you are forced to fly onward to Australia as it is the only Oneworld service from Hawaii to anywhere other than North America. I am pretty sure that you could arrange a surface segement to get back from Hawaii (meaning a non-flying segement - this does not count toward the 20 segment max and you are free to fly home from Hawaii using a separate ticket). Why not fly from Hawaii to Australia? No reason if you are on a DONE ticket, but, as Qantas (the airline in question) does not offer First Class on this route, you would be crossing the Pacific (one of the longest flights on the ticket) in Business Class -- not good value for money, IMO. This is a long way of saying that you can only do Hawaii once on a XONE ticket and it is imperfect at best.

Now, you are LAX based and want to include Vienna, New York, St. Lucia, New Orleans and Sydney. I am assuming you do not want to buy in the USA, as it is expensive. Let's say you buy in Egypt, which is around $6900 pre tax (add about another $250 for taxes). Getting to Cairo is on your own. From New York JFK, I used Egyptair in First Class for $1500, which was fine, but nothing special (as you might expect for $1500). JohnAx has also used Egyptair F to get to CAI for starting a OWE.

Let's say Vienna is your first destination. There are no Oneworld flights direct from Cairo to Vienna, so you will have to change. British Airways operates the only Oneworld three-class flight ex-CAI, so you would route CAI-LHR-VIE (2197 miles plus 795 miles).

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=C...OR=&MAP-STYLE=

After your stay in Vienna, I would send you back to the USA. While you could easily go direct to New York from Vienna via London, I would reccomend that you go to LAX as it is much longer and more miles (plus, it is home for you). As such, I would route you VIE-LHR-LAX on British Airways and American (if AA is your FFP of choice, you cannot earn AA miles on BA transatlantic flights, so you must fly AA on this route -- if you want BA across the Pond, we have to route you through Canada, Mexico or the Carribbean), which is another 795 miles plus 5456 miles.

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=C...avy&MAP-STYLE=

Now, you are in North America and must do all your North American flying before leaving the continent. You have six North American segments, one of which can be a transcon. I would send you non-stop from LAX to JFK on American (2475 miles). St. Lucia is tough because the only flights on AA are from San Juan on an ATR. I would reccomend you either pick a Carribbean destination with non-stop service from JFK (Barbados or Aruba come to mind) or just route to SJU and buy a separate ticket to St. Lucia. Let's stick with routing to SJU, which is 1598 miles from JFK. I would do this as a round trip, routing LAX-JFK-SJU-JFK, using three of your six North American segments. Once back in JFK, I would route you back to LAX via DFW (JFK-DFW-LAX). If you want to go to New Orleans, you can book this as a separate ticket ex-DFW or LAX, whichever is convenient. This leaves you with one North American segment to use to get to Hawaii (I'll assume HNL, but could work for any non-stop flight to Hawaii from LAX).

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=C...avy&MAP-STYLE=

As I mentioned, you can continue to SYD from HNL, but only in Business Class. If you are on an AONE ticket, I would reccomend routing back to LAX at your expense and flying onward to Asia from there. I would route you on Cathay Pacific to HKG (7260 miles) and then from HKG to NRT and back (for miles or to stay if you wish), which is 1842 miles each way.

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=C...avy&MAP-STYLE=

At this point, you will have used 13 of your 20 segments and flown 31,000 miles (remember, if you are already Platinum or higher on AA, you will be earning 2.5 miles per mile flown). From here, you still have two extra Asia segments you cna use before heading to Australia. If you do not want to visit somewhere esle in Asia, you could do another mileage run on CX. India is part of Asia, and although only Business Class, offers a nice amount of miles (Bali or Jakarta or other options, Jakarta may evne offer F class). Let's say you decide to do Bali as a mileage run (2136 miles and can be done as a day trip).

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=C...avy&MAP-STYLE=

Now, you are back in HKG and have used 15 segments. Off to Sydney on either Cathay or Qantas, which is 4580 miles from HKG. Since you need two segments to get back to Cairo (one to fly to Europe and one to get to Cairo), you have two segments to use in Australia. As with North America, you can only do one transcon, so Perth is out. Fortunately, you can do a round trip to Auckland, which is 1345 miles from Sydney.

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=C...avy&MAP-STYLE=

Back in Sydney, you can fly back to London on British Airways or Qantas, which is one segment, although it stops in SIN or BKK on the way (you cannot stopover and must continue on to LHR). This is a 10,573 mile flight.

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=C...avy&MAP-STYLE=

Finally, you need to have a segment back to Cairo or elsewhere in the Middle East (per the rules, you can route to another Middle Eastern city and end there). Let's say you want to go to Dubai, a popular turn-around place for FTers using XONE tickets, which is 3420 miles from LHR.

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=C...avy&MAP-STYLE=

As you can see, total mileage on this routing is 56,573. Total elite qualifying points would be 84,860. Total earned mileage would be 141,433. You would need to pay your own way to CAI, back from DXB from SJU to St. Lucia and from DFW to MSY, or use miles (FWIW, I am using miles to get back from DXB when my AONE5 ends there in January 2005).

I am sure others can tweak this, but it is a good start.

I hope it helps.

I would earn the same q-miles for these as I would with an AONE, and since I normally would qualify on miles rather than points (never saw the value to paying 5-6 times the fare just to get an extra half point per mile), the difference in points is not really significant. Though I would earn 25% fewer overall miles, and if I were ever to re-qualify for elite based on q-points, then I would earn 66% fewer q-points. I do get it.

Flying mostly upgraded domestic flights, and one or two upgraded European flights, earning EXP in a year would require me to spend about $4,000 plus 50k-100k miles, and fly about 100,000 miles, and I would earn 200,000 miles for the trips. Using an AONE, earning EXP in a year would require me to spend about $9,500 ($8,000 or so for the AONEx out of Cairo, and $1,500 for the other six or so flights necessary to qualify) and fly about 80,000 miles (considering that the flights used to make up the 15k or so difference would probably earn a half point per mile), and I would earn 310,000 miles. So, yes, I would get an extra 210,000 miles for that extra $5,500, about 2.6 cents a mile.

The thing is that I do a lot of my travel domestically, and only one or two trips abroad in a year. Nothing to Asia in more than 10 years, and never been to Australia. That is not to say that it wouldn't be interesting to see those places. It would, and I do like to experience different cultures. But in evaluating these AONE trips, I don't think that they make economic sense. Nevertheless, it seems that they can be valuable from a non-economic perspective, if you recognize that you are paying a premium price for a premium product.

And I want to make clear, so I am not misunderstood: I understand that the price paid for the premium product is a discounted price compared to the normal price for that particular product. It is just not the best price you can get for that routing. You are paying more than the best price, in order to obtain a certain amount of premium over and above the cheapest product.

It's like this: I can buy a Chevy for $20,000, or a Mercedes for $40,000. The Chevy's list price is about $20,000-$28,000, while the Mercedes' list price is closer to $60,000-$80,000. The Mercedes is the better bargain, but the Chevy is the better price. What we are talking about here is the bargain price for the Mercedes.

So, I do get it, right? ;)

Thank you, it does. It certainly gives me food for thought. While it might be tough for me to part with an extra $8,000 or so to do one of these trips, it might be an interesting experience.

I meant to ask about this. Do you mean that you can actually include a cruise as part of an AONEx ticket? Or did you mean that I would arrange a separate flight outside of the AONEx?

he means arrange a seperate flight

AA is alot easier to get EXP than i think most other ONE partner airlines, for what you do on BA youd prob still be blue

well it seems you have answered your own Q 's
the ONE is not for you, it is only worth it if you want to go to these places.
as i said i cannot fly anywhere ex uk for $250 p/seg in J on the days i would like to travel so i see it like that and i don't have to worry about searching for the cheapest flights on carriers i don't wish to fly..


usuing your car example above i assume that you would buy the cheaper car, same as if you could fly j for say $400 trans atl or fly Y for $200 you would choose Y - then thats why ONE is not for you

if i earn 200K + miles i would be earning a free Oneworld award ticket

when you start earning op up's/stickers on trans atl - then i think you may be correct but until i see that i will fly up front and pay (not much) to be there

Please don't make assumptions. . . . I'm trying to understand and decide. Regarding the car, I actually went somewhere in between. I got an Infiniti for $27k when they were selling for $50k, and everyone was still wondering what they were. It seemed the best value for the money, and everyone asked me why I didn't get a Lexus or Mercedes, which were more popular and only a bit more expensive at the time. Now Infinitis are quite popular and more expensive.

The question becomes whether the extra features are important enough to spend the extra money, and whether there is actual value in the price difference. Same thing with these.

I looked at my '04 travels carefully, and realized that I spent $4,600 on the following trips (including the cost of purchasing some sticker upgrades when I did not have enough in the bank already, and 50k miles ($500) to upgrade the London trip): SNA-MSY (F); LGB-JFK (Y); SNA-HNL (F); SNA-HDN (Y); SNA-HNL (F); LGB-JFK (F); SNA-OAK (Y); LAX-LHR (J); SNA-HNL (F); LAX-ATL (F); LGB-CUN (Y); SNA-PHL (F); LAX-HNL (Y).

Clearly, to make it more cost effective, to do a xONEx, I would need to include fewer domestic destinations and more international ones. But the truth is that I would still have to fly a lot of the domestic flights. At least 3 trips to HNL in a year is a given for me, and the cost of these would have to be in excess of the price of the XONEx. Luckily, it has been cheap recently, as I can get a HNL round trip for under $300, and use sticker upgrades.

Also, if I chose to use an AONEx, it would be stupid to start it this year, as I already have about 60,000 miles, but only 38,000 points. So, I would waste the 1.5x points bonus by using it this year.

Next year, I have already purchased one of my tickets to JFK ($134), and to MAD and AMS ($696), but I have not yet purchased tickets for YVR, the second JFK or MSY, and I don't have my travel plans for the last part of the year set yet. Still, it would seem that, to maximize the mileage, I would not want to begin to use the ticket until late summer 2005. Also, by next June, I will have 30,000 miles but only 15,000 points.

I also like the idea of using an AONEx every other year, becoming EXP in one year, then dropping to PLAT, using mostly award miles the next year and then using the AONEx when you are PLT. That seems efficient, and I'm thinking about exploring this possibility.

So, it's not that an xONEx is not for me. It might be, and it might not be. But I need to understand the way it works, the benefits and downsides, and how I would have to alter my flying habits in order to make the best use of it (as well as whether such an alteration is desirable for me), before I make up my mind.

Sure. You could take a cruise, take another flight. Heck, you could swim it for all AA or other OW airlines care! :) All a surface segment means is that you are not flying between the two cities involved as part of the ticket. How you from A to B is your problem, not theirs. Surface segments are a good way to avoid wasting a segment when the distance between the two cities is small and/or the price is cheap.

For example, on my current AONE5, I had an LHR-FRA segment, that I did not use as a surface segment. It made sense at the time as I was trying to not spend any more money than I had to and I needed to travel between London and Frankfurt. Had I done that as a surface segment, I would have been able, later in the trip to fly from Singapore to Melbourne via Hong kong, which would have been more miles and another opportunity to fly CX longhaul. Instead, I am "stuck" flying BA between SIN and MEL.

You would need to make several flying habit alterations. First, you would have to do more trips at one time instead of weekend hoppers here and there. Second, you would have to not to go HNL (unless, of course you buy a seperate ticket). Third, you will have to find direct flights for wherever you go which could be hard from an airport that's small like SNA. For example, if you wanted to go SNA-PHL then that would be four out of your six segments because (AFIAK) the flights are not direct. I agree with the others that unless you are able to take a significant amount of time off to do many segments outside the US then it's not worth it.

Benefits:
1. time/date flexibility (my most important benefit)
2. general availability, though I am usually a bit flexible
3. reroute for $75
4. you get to see more of the world

Downsides:
1. you *only* get 6 flights in the US
2. rules are complicated
3. you need to set a routing unless you want to spend a ton of cash with constant reroutes
4. going around the world can take a lot of time
5. expensive

Personally, if someone is exp and has no interest in seeing the world then they are better off doing $200 LAX-JFK or LAX-PHL runs and the occasional run to Europe for $350. If you do 4 trips LAX-LON at 11,000 miles each and 13 trips to Philadelphia at $200 each then you are renewing exec plat for $4000 all in F or J without having to deal with all the rules and restrictions of the OWE and it would probably be cheaper in the long run.

So, then, I do not need to have a continuous route on a xONEx ticket? For example, I can go HKG-JFK, with my next segment being, for example, LAX-HNL, and the following segment SNA-DFW, and I don't have to get to LAX or later to SNA on the xONEx ticket for it to be a valid routing?

That is correct.

I really would encourage you to read carefully the OWE rules, as they answer virtually all of the questions that you have posed.

Pay particular attention to the "Routing" section of the rules. In this case, rule #8 in that section says "INTERMEDIATE SURFACE SEGMENTS PERMITTED." However, you must read all of the rules, because you could not go to HNL and then take your next flight from SYD or HKG (Routing rule 1: "TRANSOCEANIC SURFACE IS NOT PERMITTED").

Wideman is correct in theory but your example is a major exception. Because of an unrelated rule, once youre in HNL you can *only* leave from HNL (or another Hawaiian island). You cant do an open jaw to or from HNL *anywhere* but otherwise open jaws are generally allowed save exceptions like wideman pointed out.

That's interesting - I had no idea the HNL rule was there, and had just been looking for a personal schedule opportunity to zip out to HNL and oj back to the mainland. Wonder if the AA rtw agents generally know that rule.

Yes, people have reported they do. I dont have personal experience because I have no need to go to HI but others who do have said that all airlines support the same view.

OK, so once you hit HNL, your next stop on your xONEx ticket has to be to another continent. If I do a surface trip back to LAX, then it has to be a round trip, and if I go from North America to Australia, and plan on stopping in HNL before I leave, I can only take the SYD flight from HNL, which has no F seats.

That means that it makes more sense to fly into North America, landing at HNL and proceeding to the mainland, rather than flying out of North America by stopping in HNL first.

Also, given the outrageous cost to get to CAI from here, it almost makes more sense to fly to HKG and start an AONEx from there, flying into North America (JFK), and then either to Australia or Europe as the next continent. The cost of the trip to CAI or CMB seems to more than wipe out any price savings. In other words, the cost of a flight to CAI or CMB from LAX plus the AONEx from there seems to be higher than the cost of the trip to HKG plus the AONEx from there.

HKG-<N America>-<Australia>-... can never be a valid routing for a xONEn ticket (you start from TC3 (Asia + Australasia), so you can only re-enter it at the end). If you go HKG-<N America> the next continent (in the absence of any NA-Africa flights) must be Europe.

So, then, when someone suggested a routing from SYD-LHR, a couple of stops in Europe, and then later had a series of North America stops, they were proposing an invalid routing, right?

I dont think that's what I said. What I said is that when you get to HNL, you only have a choice from leaving from HNL or another continent.

Coming to think of it, that is not completely correct. I am tired so if I make no sense then I apologize. Here are the *only* routings including HNL (and ignoring the other HI destinations because it would be the same).

Eastbound
1. SYD-HNL-LAX
2. SYD-HNL-DFW
3. SYD-HNL-ORD
4. SYD-HNL-SJC
5. SYD-HNL-SFO
6. SYD-HNL//LAX
7. SYD-HNL//DFW
8. SYD-HNL//ORD
9. SYD-HNL//SJC
10. SYD-HNL//SFO

Westbound
1. LAX-HNL-SYD
2. DFW-HNL-SYD
3. ORD-HNL-SYD
4. SJC-HNL-SYD
5. SFO-HNL-SYD
6. LAX//HNL-SYD
7. DFW//HNL-SYD
8. ORD//HNL-SYD
9. SJC//HNL-SYD
10. SFO//HNL-SYD

The // is an open jaw. These are almost the only combinations you can take and use Honolulu, again assuming that you are not interested in visiting other islands. So yes, you can open jaw but it would make absolutely no sense to me for you to do so. So in that regard I stand corrected.

The three rules implicated are 1) no open jaws across the pacific ocean, 2) only one flight to or from Hawaii is permitted, and 3) no backtracking between Hawaii and the mainland. The third is what very explicitly prohibits you from open jawing back to the mainland after getting to Hawaii from the US.

No, not necessarily. It would if they get from Europe to Australia via North America but not via Asia. I dont know the thread but just considering wht you said you could do Australia-London via Bangkok, European stops, London to North America, North American stops, then North America back to Australia. It goes in one direction (westbound).

One possible justification/use for an open-jaw involving HNL would be to include one of the many cruises to the mainland in your itinerary (and they're very nice, too - personal experience.) I presume the fact that you can do an open-jaw ex/to Hawaii means the transoceanic surface segment ban only refers to the whole ocean, not just part.

It raises an interesting matter: due to US cabotage law, the one-way cruises leaving Hawaii all go to Ensenada, Mexico. Mexico is not mentioned in the "no-backtrack" rule. One could relatively easily get from Ensenada or nearby Tijuana to MEX, then hook up with LA for playing around in S. America. If you then traveled on to AKL or SYD from SCL, you'd never set down back in the US after leaving Hawaii, so you wouldn't have violated the explicit backtrack rule. This might be a way for westbound xONEx itineraries that include South America to visit Hawaii before going on to S. America; e.g., xxx-LAX-HNL//MEX-SCL-etc-SYD. Otherwise they'd need to do S. America first so that exiting HNL would be the last stop in the zone. More flexibility results. Hmmm.

I can think of 2 particularly good values for xONE tickets:

1. Going to Australia from the US. This is a long trip and you cannot upgrade, so you're going to be stuck in coach for a long time. The price of a business class seat to Australia is probably similar to a RTW ticket. Unless you use miles to get a ticket, you're going to be in the back.

2. If your company is sending you across the world in business class, it may be just as cheap to get a RTW ticket if you can convince them to do this. There is a time limit to the RTW tickets (7 days I believe) to stop you from doing quick trips, but you can buy another cheap ticket to get around that rule if needed.

Some destinations are not good for RTW trips, notably Hawaii. Also, you don't want to use your RTW segments on cheap segments in the US like LGB-JFK, but for costlier destinations like Alaska or expensive Caribbean destinations like Barbados.

I think the best value is to make a list of all the places in the world you'd like to see and figure out which of those places is the most expensive to get to. Then try and make a RTW trip that includes these pricey destinations and fly in business or first class. In the process, you will likely make enough miles back that you can fly for free for a while afterwards.