Star vs. Oneworld (AC vs CP, top tier)
 

We started this under the thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum83/HTML/000060.html but think we should continue it here--if there are any takers.

[This message has been edited by BlondeBomber (edited 06-01-2000).]

I'll start it off with my posts under the old thread then I will go back and delete them from there.

Well, Canadian Plus has KenHamer as a member, otherwise Air Canada Aeroplan is better all round.
Seriously, in part it depends on what you want out of a program.

Executive Platinum easier to attain than Super Elite (85K vs 100K)-- ABSOLUTELY TRUE, but last year AC offered me SE for 90K.

Executive Platinum much easier to requalify than Super Elite (75K vs 100K)--ABSOLUTELY TRUE, but we will see how sticky AC is this year.

oneworld currently seems to have better world coverage, although it seems to be a never ending tit-for-tat game--DEPENDS WHERE YOU ARE GOING, I thing this is a dead heat.

CP/oneworld awards generally lower points cost than AC/Star (125,000 will get you anywhere in the world, as opposed to 185,000+ for some Star destinations)--TRUE, I have complained about this--really only affects me going to AFRICA though.

CP relationship with Amex Membership rewards -- transfer 5000 MR points to CP, get 3000 to 10000 points off an award price; 1000 points for buying ticket on Amex; and 1.5 MR/CP points/dollar spent (Amex Platinum or Gold, with points accelarator)-Diner's Club offers an OK deal but I am not really interested in either card now (with foreign exchange fee increase coming). I'll use my VISA Aerogold now.

Friendlier attitude with western oriented CP, as opposed to all business attitude of eastern oriented AC (not so much so at top tier, though)--even split on this one. Both can be OK or NOT. I have experienced nothing but unbelievably good service from AC lately.

Easier to upgrade, although that's a double edged sword -- if CP had more passengers, they would not be in their current financial situation, but upgrades would be harder to come by.--If Shareholder only got 75% of upgrades as Gold, he needs to fly different routes or a different airline. As AC Elite I managed almost 100% upgrades (only missed on last minute standby, always got my upgrades as 48 hr in advance on AC). As SE I have done 100% on domestic and international upgrades at time of booking and showing up at the gate. With no more upgrades for sale, it should be even easier to get upgrades in the future.

Black SWA (anywhere, any fare) upgrade stickers (AC situation has recently changed in this area -- Cliff?)--SuperElites are the clear winners here as we get 8 anywhere any fare stickers on renewal (we hope again in 2000) and 2 more for every 10000 qualifying miles, CP only gives 4 of these and no more through the year. If you do lots of international flying, AC has the edge--As you earn over 10K miles for each international flight, I will have more upgrades than I can use. Overall CP gives more upgrade certificates (but most are domestic) so would be better if you only fly domestically. However, those are 100 hr. booking whereas the SE upgrades that you use domestically are at time of booking. That is a big AC plus. No wondering whether you will get your upgrade, you know right at booking.

I think CP is more generous with upgrade stickers than AC -- let me know if I'm wrong, I'll edit out this point.)--EDIT OUT THIS POINT, depends if you are talking about domestic or international

Seamless integration with AA (whose service in First class has improved dramatically, since oneworld) including lounge access, ticketing, and especially upgrades. (CP members can upgrade on AA as easily as on CP, and as easily as AAdvantage members can on AA.) Much tighter integration than any Star carriers, at least for now. BIG PLUS--if I could use my SE upgrades on UA I would be happier(unfortunately I cannot http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif)

Much better food in business class on CP. Jury is out, we'll see if CP is serving any food by year end

More award partners with CP, especially StarWood, which for me has been superb so far this year.and I think AC has more partners--but I think both suck compared to the US programs

surprised you didn't mention CP's bonuses for Platinum -100% from ground zero, compared to 100% on AC only after 35K each year. This is somewhat offset by the free companion tickets, any fare anywhere in AC's world that are given at 60, 100 and 150K and the fact that (until now) AC gives status and air miles based on cabin seated in not based on fare paid--that is a big plus and has more than offset any CP bonuses for me. If you pay business or first class fares all the time, then CP may be the one for you. If you fly a lot of discount and upgrade, then AC is a winner!

Both very good programs -- but for my international flying I'll still take AC because of the upgrades--we'll see if that still holds for next year.

The one and only BlondeBomber http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Other bonuses as SuperElite:
 seasonal discounts on Econo, Executive/Exec. First rewards
 hotel & car upgrades
 guaranteed AC seat--book 6 hrs in advance, full fare compared to 24 hr. advance on CP
 automatic Crowne Plaza Passport to Privilege membership
 automatic Delta Hotels Privilege Gold membership
 automatic HHonors Gold VIP membership
 4 Maple Leaf lounge passes
 Marriott Upgrade to Concierge-Canada
 next to empty seat on UA economy

We have gotten other good deals as well. There have been regional double miles promotions that I have gotten as SuperElite that I know were not done on CP. Overall I think there have been more promos on AC which were not always matched by CP.

CP has an online booking advantage with 500 points per booking. (see I am being fair KenH)

The first year of SuperElite we also got 4 free 3 day weekend car rentals with Budget. They were totally free except for taxes. That was unbelievable!

Reading this, it occurs to me it's time for another couple of charts. Similar to the oneworld and Star Alliance comparison charts, maybe we should have a AC/CP comparison chart, followed by an AA/UA comparison chart, and maybe even BA/LH, etc. The North American carriers strike me as the easiest to do a direct comparison with (i.e. same country carriers,) but there might be some value in the others.

Is it a simple cut-and-paste operation from the current comparison charts?

Regards,

Ken Hamer

Sounds like this should be split into 2 areas -- More domestic upgrades for CP, more int'l upgrades for AC, and better upgrade opportunities on AC (i.e. confirmed at booking for domestic.)

Again, may require multiple areas -- AC much better with class of service bonuses on sticker upgrades, and AC better with companion tickets. They may also be better with the 100% loyalty bonuses. I'm not sure what you mean by "ground zero" but the bonuses lapse each March 1, and only become effective once you requalify for Gold or Platinum. This means that I need to fly 35,000 miles after March 1, before I start getting the 50% bonus again, and 85,000 for the 100%. If AC gives the 100% bonus after flying only 35,000, then they are the clear winner. On the other hand, if you have to acheive SE, then fly an additional 35,000 to start receiving the bonus, then CP wins.

CP equivalents:
? Seasonal discounts on awards, but not nearly as frequent as AC
? lots of car upgrades, a few hotel upgrades
? Automatic Starwood Gold membership
? 4 Empress Lounge passes
? next to empty seat on all oneworld carriers , in economy (allegedly, but I can confirm BA and AA)

Last year I would have said CP had more/better bonuses (i.e. almost 30,000 points for a Web Special on YVR-BOS, $299, upgraded to business class.) But this year, they have been few and far between.

More than fair -- this bonus is scheduled to end soon. http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

But no longer, so I'm not sure this should be included in a comparison. Might be a good lobbying point, though.

Regards,

Ken Hamer


[This message has been edited by KenHamer (edited 09-04-1999).]

Thanks guys, I'm more confused than ever. But that's the point, isn't it? Imagine a program with the best of both programs: Is Gerry Schwartz monitoring these pages?

My 75% ratio is based on the fact that I live on a spoke in the system, and Cdn only flies 737s up to Edmonton on transcons. That means there's only 12 possible J-class seats, unlike AC's A320s and 767s which I believe at least have up to twice the number... Still didn't do me much when I did have Elite, as I noted. Maybe too many SE's out of here, and fewer EPs.

Thanks for the peak inside the tent of that top tier...

I did put together a comparison chart but haven't had much time to edit. I can e-mail you the Word document if you like. I was trying to get it down to differences only. No point showing how they are the same.

Re: bonuses. Ground zero = Jan 1 after requalification. I thought CP Platinum got the 100% bonus starting at January 1 (if they requalified). I think that is how I interpreted the oneworld comparison chart. AC gives a sort of 100% bonus starting at 35K. You have to get up to the next even thousand level: 35K gets 5000 miles, 50K gets 10000 miles, 60K another 10000 miles and so on every 10000 miles.

As I said I think that they are both good programs--I am not sure what the future holds but I suspect the best of the ride will end this year http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

The last couple of trips, I only got miles based on the class of ticket purchased NOT the class of service I was actually seated in (upgraded J in advance). I suspect that the 25% free miles when upgraded may be ending soon.

http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif--sorry to hear that Megamiles

My last 6 flights have all been upgraded no problem and it was a mix of at the gate and pre-booked confirmed at time of reservation. Maybe Toronto's computers are in alignment now?

Keeping my fingers crossed that it will last through fall at least.

And remember in Canada it's not just 25% more, its 250% (based on discount fare rate as discount fares normally only get 50% of base miles in Canada)! I really will miss that unless they give us 100% of base miles like US carriers do (and that we get for international and US flights with AC).

Seems I was on drugs or otherwise less than a 100% on the 500 point bonus for booking CP on-line. It's the 500 point virtual ticket bonus that is scheduled to end. The on-line booking bonus remains.

Regards,

Ken Hamer

I do like CP's online plus the virtual ticket bonuses!

Megamiles: just did another 2 flights, one with paper ticket and one with e-ticket, both upgraded and both were credited with full J miles. http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Hoping that your experiences were a bad blip.