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-   -   Exactly 24 Hours. Is It a Stopover? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/oneworld/1398497-exactly-24-hours-stopover.html)

AlwaysOnTheRoad Oct 17, 2012 3:06 pm

Exactly 24 Hours. Is It a Stopover?
 
If you have flight that arrives at 7:55 PM on one day and another that
leaves at 7:55 PM the next day... is it considered 24 hours and thus a
layover?

serfty Oct 17, 2012 4:54 pm

It's a real YMMV on this. Some state one-way, some stay the other.

My one experience with such on a LONE4 had us scheduled to arrive on BA into LHR from ORD at 10am and departing for DBV from LGW at 10am the next day.

It was ticketed by AA as a transit (-ORD-xLON-DBV-).

Even with this AA can be non specific. e.g. http://www.aa.com/i18n/Tariffs/AA1.h...IRY_AA1-0135AA


Originally Posted by definitions
...

Transit Point means any stop at an intermediate point on the route to be traveled (whether or not a change of planes is made) which does not fall within the definition of a stopover.

...

Stopover means (Not applicable between points in Canada and points in Puerto Rico/Virgin Islands) a deliberate interruption of a journey at an intermediate point from which the passenger is not scheduled to depart within 24 hours of arrival.


Originally Posted by 78.2
For the purpose of this rule "Stopover" means: A deliberate interruption of a journey at an intermediate point from which the passenger is scheduled to depart later than 24 hours after arrival. (Local time)


cityflyer369 Oct 18, 2012 2:12 am

Both statements suggest that exactly 24 hours is fine.

serfty Oct 18, 2012 6:08 am


Originally Posted by cityflyer369 (Post 19517992)
Both statements suggest that exactly 24 hours is fine.

The first no (within 24 hours) - as it refers to periods shorter than 24 hours, not exactly 24 hours; the second, yes (later than 24 hours).

Since the second does not contradict the first then I guess 24 hours or less represents a transit in AA's vocabulary.

cityflyer369 Oct 18, 2012 7:46 am

I understand the term "within 24 hours" to be equivalent to "up to 24 hours".

AlwaysOnTheRoad Oct 18, 2012 10:52 am

I will let y'all know how this goes. Cathay will be doing the ticketing as they have the first over water segment.

ernestnywang Oct 18, 2012 10:18 pm

The reservation system indicates that transit is =<24 hrs.

Code:

1 KA 489B 01DEC 6 TPEHKG*SS1  0800  1000  /DCKA /E 
 2 KA 876B 02DEC 7 HKGPVG*SS1  1000  1220  /DCKA /E 
WP«
PSGR TYPE  ADT - 01 
    CXR RES DATE  FARE BASIS      NVB  NVA    BG 
 TPE 
XHKG KA  B  01DEC BOWTW                31DEC 20K 
 SHA KA  B  02DEC BOWTW                01DEC 20K 
FARE  TWD    10717   
TAX  TWD      300TW TWD      456HK TWD      1844YR 
TOTAL TWD    13317 
ADT-01  BOWTW 
 TPE KA X/HKG KA SHA Q4.25 355.65NUC359.90END ROE29.776 
ENDOS*SEG1/2*NONEND/RRTE/VLD TPE DEP/ON/B4 31DEC12/S/O HKG FREE 
ATTN*PRIVATE FARE APPLIED - CHECK RULES FOR CORRECT TICKETING 
ATTN*PRIVATE ¤ 
ATTN*VALIDATING CARRIER - KA

The "*" means that it is considered a "married segment" (which is for transits only) and the fare calculation also shows HKG as "X" (transit).

AlwaysOnTheRoad Oct 19, 2012 12:40 am

Outstanding work. Thank you.

hillrider Oct 19, 2012 12:41 pm

redundant

hillrider Oct 19, 2012 12:45 pm


Originally Posted by ernestnywang (Post 19523680)
The "*" means that it is considered a "married segment" (which is for transits only) and the fare calculation also shows HKG as "X" (transit).

Married connections are airline-specific and have nothing to do with IATA fare construction rules. You should never imply anything from a married segment indicator other than a cancellation that does not involve the full O&D is subject to there being O&D availability on the remaining segments.

The /X in the fare construction instead does positively indicate that this was a transit for fare construction purposes.

ernestnywang Oct 20, 2012 11:48 pm


Originally Posted by hillrider (Post 19527355)
Married connections are airline-specific and have nothing to do with IATA fare construction rules. You should never imply anything from a married segment indicator other than a cancellation that does not involve the full O&D is subject to there being O&D availability on the remaining segments.

While you are right to say that, AFAIK married segment can never apply to stopovers.

MSPeconomist Oct 20, 2012 11:52 pm

IMO it should be MCT + 24 hours, so that it clearly is just a transit if you are unable to take a once-a-day flight due to MCT rules.

ernestnywang Oct 21, 2012 1:39 pm


Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 19535496)
IMO it should be MCT + 24 hours, so that it clearly is just a transit if you are unable to take a once-a-day flight due to MCT rules.

Not so...

Code:

1 KA5463Y 01DEC 6 TPEHKG SS1  0610  0755  /DCKA /E 
OPERATED BY CATHAY PACIFIC AIRWAYS 
 2 KA 802Y 02DEC 7 HKGPVG SS1  0800  1020  /DCKA /E 
WP«
PSGR TYPE  ADT - 01 
    CXR RES DATE  FARE BASIS      NVB  NVA    BG 
 TPE 
 HKG KA  Y  01DEC YOW3                  01DEC 20K 
 SHA KA  Y  02DEC YOW2                  01DEC 20K 
FARE  TWD    20984   
TAX  TWD      300TW TWD      456HK TWD      1844YR 
TOTAL TWD    23584 
ADT-01  YOW3 YOW2 
 TPE KA HKG406.53KA SHA Q4.25 293.95NUC704.73END ROE29.776 
ENDOS*SEG2*T1 
ATTN*VALIDATING CARRIER - KA


hillrider Oct 22, 2012 8:51 pm


Originally Posted by ernestnywang (Post 19535484)
While you are right to say that, AFAIK married segment can never apply to stopovers.

I have never seen them either, but there's nothing that says "can never apply". Married segments is a policy that individual airlines apply out of their own PSS to their own reservations, completely outside of IATA or any other standard body. That's why you don't see (at least as of now) married segments on interline reservations.

hillrider Oct 22, 2012 8:59 pm


Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 19535496)
IMO it should be MCT + 24 hours, so that it clearly is just a transit if you are unable to take a once-a-day flight due to MCT rules.

Nope. To repeat, it's a "deliberate interruption of a journey at an intermediate point from which the passenger is scheduled to depart later than 24 hours after arrival".

If there are no outgoing flights within the 24 hour timeframe, then it is not a deliberate interruption and therefore it is not a stopover; however, GDSs don't price this automatically (I believe because when they were programmed it would have been too resource-intensive to perform a schedule check), they simply assume that >24 hours is a stopover, so whomever issues the ticket needs to manually override the stopover in the fare calculation/ticketing command. This rarely happens in the developed world, but can happen in remote areas (I've seen it in the Southern Pacific Islands).


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