AONE4 from Khartoum
 

HI there
Hoping someone might be able to shed some light ....
I'm thinking of starting an AONE4 RTW from Khartoum but don't want the hassle of getting a Tourist Visa...
Ideally i'd like to fly in on RJ from Amman and leave on the same plane back to Amman....
There is only a 2 hour or so turnaround for the plane which i'm sure is not enough time if I had to clear Customs and Immigration and then check back in and go back through!
Obviously I would be on 2 different tickets - ie one to get me to Khartoum from Amman and then my RTW starting in Khartoum to depart and am not sure that RJ would be able to check me in in Amman for the flight coming back because of that.
Any advice hugely appreciated.
It seems that you are allowed 6 hours at KRT to transit without a visa so presumably if it came to it I'd book myself in on a different flight that would give me time to connect to my first RTW flight on RJ?
Many thanks

Interesting - was thinking about fares from AMM, but this has some attractions, albeit burns two euro segments.
a 2006 FT post talked about a 6-hr visa but I can't find any recent web references and the page at the Sudanese US embassy no longer exits

unsure about KRT (would suggest emailing the airport or Sudan UK or US embassy), but have done a similar 2-hr turnaround in KHI - airport layout there was a single level airport - had CX staff meet me at gate escort me to lounge, take passport to front desk, and come back with my ticket

I also note this review: http://www.sleepinginairports.net/af...um-airport.htm

From KVS

[KVS Availability Tool 6.2.0/Diamond - TIMATIC: Visa/Entry Requirements]

HI
Thanks for this - I had checked it out via timatic and was aware of the 6 hour option but my concern is more about the turn-around time in KRT as my inward and outward flights will be on 2 separate tickets and whether there is any way to be checked into the return flight from KRT and issued a boarding pass so that I don't have to clear Customs and Immigration in KRT and check in there - there would not be enough time apart from anything else!
I have emailed and called RJ and so far nobody seems to know!!

HI there
I've done a 2 hour turnaround at Seoul and very similar procedure but that is at one of the world's best airports and I"ve yet to found out if that is possible at KRT
I have emailed them and the Sudan Embassy in the UK and also RJ but so far no answers!
But i'll report back if I find out anything useful!

Thx!

The RJ510/511 turnaround is within the MCT published for RJ on expertflyer.

KRT. In RJ. Out RJ.
STANDARD.D/D...D/I...I/D...I/I.
ONLINE .30 1.00 1.00 1.00
OFFLINE .30 1.00 1.00 1.00
** OR * ARE ALL

I might be there in a few weeks time so I can report back how bad it really is and whether an airside transfer is possible. The AONEx price looks really nice btw.

What are the latest AONEX prices ex-KRT?

Legally a turnaround is NOT considered TWOV. See Timatic:

My emphasis

If I were you I would buy a refundable ticket to a third country and cancel upon arrival in Sudan.

According to KVS

AONE3 SDG17800
AONE4 SDG20400
AONE5 SDG23900
AONE6 SDG26500

If you use the on-line booking tool, then AA issues the ticket and the fare will be converted into USD
According to xe.com today's exchange rate is USD1 = SDG2.67

Burn 4 segments not 2
 

Based upon the European rules, you have to terminate at the same location as you originate so you will need to end in KRT which means assuming you are headed to/from London to on a F flight, then you will need 4 segements getting/to from KRT which is a big negative on the ticket.

AA EXP DFW-LON: agreed that is the negative and you force yourself into missing F segments, although frankly with so few decent F segments left it is difficult to optimise anyway.

Two options.
BA F from Mid East-LHR but miss TATL in F
KRT-AMM-(TLV/DXB/AUH)-LHR-xxxxxxxx-(JFK/ORD/YUL)-AMM-KRT or v.v
No Euro First but get TATL in F
KRT-AMM-LHR-xxxxxx-USA-LHR-AMM-KRT

On a Oneworld Explorere, you cannot purchase additional segements in the continent of origin - rule 4(h) which in part says:

I'm quite confused. Are you trying to plan a Oneworld Explorer or a Circle Atlantic ticket, because your examples appear to be the latter :confused:

I don't believe any OW carrier publishes a *CIRAT* ex-KRT.

EDIT: In fact, they do not. Sudan is not considered part of the Middle East for the purposes of any of the circle fares. In fact, neither are Algeria, Egypt, Libya, Morocco or Tunisia, all of which are in the Middle East for the purposes of the OWE.

KVS gives an exchange rate of USD1 - SDG 3.1 so the USD price is less than USD 6000 for a AONE3. Not sure which rate is the right one however.

EF says 7598.00(USD)

When i've done sample routing on the online booking tool it lets me terminate in eg Muscat or elsewhere in the Middle East

Was looking at an xONE but just looking at the Euro segments which are important for an ex-KRT departure

For xxxx- replace with Asia/SWP/Africa/Sth America as you see fit. It was predicated on people buying AONEs wanting to maximise F experiences which limits your routings and makes TATL relatively important.


Interesting. I had been thinking that it may fall into the Africa exception, Africa not necessarily being fully defined.

A bit worried about the massive differences in the x-rate

Which would mean an exchange rate of 2.34. This seems to be all over the place.

I queried this in the KVS thread last month
KVS replied (He quoted SDG14,700 as the base fare for a DONE4 ex-KRT)

So, it seems that if you book through the on-line booking engine, then AA uses the current exchange rate, as specified by a bank not by IATA. Seems fare enough to me.

I have been looking at booking recently AONE6 from KRT. On the return flight, you can terminate in AMM. Saves a segment that way.

Indeed "fare" enough! Thanks for the clarification, pandaperth!

I can go through the booking process on www.oneworld.com for ex-AMM itineraries with first flight on RJ which book through AA but if I try to book ex-KRT I can get to the pricing page but when I click on the book button I keep getting the following:

The following error(s) occured

Our lowest fares are not available for the destination and date requested. Please return to the homepage and click on the ?search by schedule? button to find our most attractive fares. (5685 - 2201)

Any other experiences with this?

I've just been through the motions for a saved ex-KRT DONE4 of mine - I got right through to where I would enter my credit card details. So the tool appears to be working OK.

What is your proposed itinerary? Maybe there is something 'wrong' with it that is not picked up until further along the process?

Argh!! An inadvertent pun!!

Thanks for going through the motions pandaperth- the itinerary that gave me the above error was KRT-AMM-LHR-DFW with the LHR-DFW on a BA-operated AA-coded flight. By changing the transatlantic to an AA-operated flight the error disappeared. I don't know if that was the reason for the error but it seems to resolve it

booking error
 

HI
I"ve had the same experience yes in setting up dummy bookings but it's always been because of some error along the way that the online booking tool hasn't picked up on.
I've managed to get through to the payment page etc but have not yet purchased as I"m hoping to get some information on possible transit/turnaround in KRT without having to get a visa etc

If you've any information that would be great!

Cheers

I'm going to say this again, you cannot do a AMM-KRT-AMM turn around. This is not considered TWOV. I *highly* doubt RJ would let you onto the AMM-KRT flight. I had issues in AMM just two days ago trying to go to EBL because I didn't have a visa. The man at the RJ counter very carefully reviewed the timatic information before finding the exception for travel to Kurdistan by EU/US/Canadian/Japanese citizens.

I recommend either booking a refundable flight and past KRT and cancelling it once you arrive, or entering KRT from another location. Perhaps CAI? You could also enter from your final ME destination. Say you wanted to end in DXB. Buy your round trip positioning flight to DXB and a separate o/w on Flydubai, which is a LCC to KTM. In other words Origin-DXB-KRT-AMM-LHR-xxRTWxx-DXB-Origin.

Ethiopian Air have good connections from JNB via ADD to KRT and a 3 hour connection to RJ's KRT-AMM service :) The big question is: Is punctuality something that is highly valued in Ethiopia???????

Business Class JNB-ADD-KRT is $US1250ai and the saving on an AONE5 ex-KRT versus an AONE6 ex-CPT is around $US5600

The ADD-KRT segment is a steal when purchased as part of a longhaul ET flight. If one wanted to buy just KRT-ADD then this is a relatively costly exercise.

I wouldn't attempt it.

A year or so ago I was routed ADD-KRT-LHR with transit in KRT and I was denied the opportunity to disembark in KRT. Indeed the airline wanted to through me off the aircraft in ADD but by being stubborn and persuasive I managed to convince them to reroute me.

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: Please explain :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

With apologies to whomever posted this in another thread a few days ago, but here seems equally appropriate

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hilario...9242/lightbox/

3.1 to 1 USD is the correct IATA exchange rate and all published fares are based on that rate at the moment. It should be possible to get that rate on an AONEx. Not sure why AA's online booking engine uses a different rate since SABRE is using 3.1 to 1.

I love that FT just discovered that image, which has been around on the Internet for many many years :D

Its not just AA's booking engine that has this quirk with the USD/Sudanese pound exchange rate
An AONE6 priced in $AU on Expertflyer returns $AU8080 which at the current Rate of Exchange is $US8600. But if you price the fare in $US on Expertflyer it returns a fare of $US9870

I'll ask on the EF master thread what is the reason behind this anomaly.


And BrewerSEA that image has been blocked in Australia up until now by the National Feral Rabbit Eradication Board as pro-cute/cuddly rabbit propaganda so its not my fault that I am so behind the times :o

There isn't any anomaly, the GDS is pricing the fare properly based on the currency selected and the exchange rate used.

To start, if you look at the Routing Rules, you'll see the base fare of AONE6 ex-KRT is SDG 26500.00

Next, you look at the conversion rates the GDS is using (part of the meta data returned to us):

"RATE USED IS BSR 1 SDG - 0.3724395 USD"
Which means 1USD = 2.685 SDG, which means the price in USD should be shown as USD $9870, which as you noted it is, so the USD price is correct.

Now if you request the fare in AUD you get:

"RATE USED IS ICH 1 SDG - 0.3048967 AUD"
Which means 1AUD = 3.28 SDG, which means the price in AUD should be AUD $8080, which it is, so that is correct as well.

It looks like the GDS is using the SDG->USD Bankers Selling Rate spot price (BSR) for showing the fare in USD (like AA is). However when requested in AUD, it is using the IATA Clearing House (ICH) rate for SDG->USD then converts USD->AUD since it couldn't determine a BSR for SDG->AUD directly.

If you Google "ICH BSR exchange rate" you'll find some documents that explain how the GDS tries one then the other when converting fares. As per chewy3's note, it looks like Sabre just uses the ICH rate across the board, which is more consistent but less accurate (as per AA's results).

Are there any similarly priced countries in the region to commence a AONE4?

Israel, USD10,000 (denominated in USD)
Jordan, USD 10,022 (denominated in JOD, conversion from EF)
Egypt, USD 10,376 (denominated in EGP, conversion from EF)
Qatar, USD 10,299 (from EF)
Saudi Arabia, USD 9091 (from EF)

...Maybe one or two more. Except for Jordan, you can actually ride in first class on the first segment from all those cities, rather than having a short J flight to AMM as your initial segment. More bang for the AONEX buck/dinar/pound.

IMHO, the 'quirk' is that the booking engine quotes a price in USD
The ex-Sudan fare is quoted in SGD, not USD. Imagine if you were in Khartoum and used the booking engine to buy a ticket - why should you have to pay in USD and likely be up for your credit card provider's fees for converting the USD charge back in to SGD?

A secondary issue is then, given that the booking engine converts the fare into USD, what exchange rate is used. Seems to that using the current bank rate is reasonable.

When they are paying attention, the AMM RJ staff are indeed fairly vigilant about these things. I went to Libya recently and there was much checking of the rules, phoning back and forth to various offices, and so on. Finally they let me go after I signed an indemnity form stating that I was responsible for any problems.

Then again, I also traveled to Saudi Arabia without a visa of any kind from AMM a while back, much to the consternation of the local authorities in RUH. So it does indeed depend a great deal on how carefully they are checking things on any given day.

I don't think the strategy of buying an additional (unused) ticket would work, since part of what you are hoping for is to be checked in for both flights in AMM. If I was set on beginning the RTW from KRT, I'd either a) arrive from a different airport (i.e., not a turnaround flight), or b) attempt to get a visa in advance.

Of course, YMMV and good luck!