Advice on AONE4
 

I started planning to take an RTW this coming summer ages ago, and fairly recently decided on an AONE4. My goal is to visit all of these places (other than the US cities) but also to maximize mileage (I'll go from statusless to EXP only using this trip!). I'd love any advice about different routings or really anything else.

I'm based in Seattle but will fly out of JNB as it is about the same price to fly J from Seattle round trip and start in South Africa as it is to just start in Seattle, and, as a bonus I can actually SEE South Africa, which isn't a possible routing starting in Seattle as Kenya is higher up on my must-see list.

Anyway, here goes:

Positioning: SEA-xDFW-xLHR-JNB then NBO-xLHR-xORD-SEA

1. Johannesburg (JNB) - xLHR - Amman (AMM)
2. Amman (AMM) - Sulaimaniyah (ISO)
3. Sulaimaniyah (ISU) - xAMM - London (LHR)
4. London (LHR) - Singapore (SIN)
5. Singapore (SIN) - Bangkok (BKK)
6. Bangkok (BKK) - Tokyo (HND)
7. Tokyo (HND) - Beijing (PEK)
8. Beijing (PEK) - Hong Kong (HKG)
9. Hong Kong (HKG) - New York (JFK)
10. New York (JFK) - xLAX - xORD - Seattle (SEA)
11. Seattle (SEA) - xLHR - Nairobi (NBO)

I want to keep the HKG-JFK flight on there to experience the longest non-stop flight on OW (and in CX F, to boot!).

Thanks for any and all help!

First, a minor typo - Sulaymaniyah is ISU; ISO is someplace in North Carolina.

Your itinerary is fine; however have you looked at the all-in costs starting in Jordan instead of SA? At today's exchange rates, an AONE4 starting in Jordan looks to be around US$700 cheaper than one starting in South Africa, and I expect your positioning costs would be lower, too.

In addition, by starting in SA you'd have to ticket with BA (if you use the online tool) which would subject you to very big fuel surcharges in addition to ordinary taxes. By starting in Jordan you could have AA issue the ticket (as the RJ issuer of record) which would reduce those charges to some degree (from some to a lot, depending on detailed itinerary and stopover points.)

The one hitch that would result from starting in Jordan would be that you couldn't transit Amman after ISU (no transiting the point of issuance) so your Iraq trip would probably need to be made prior to the actual start of the RTW. On the other hand that would save you a couple of segments you could use elsewhere. Oneworld doesn't seem to have a published RTW fare for Iraq, so starting in ISU is off the table for now.

You might apply the difference in access costs to a separate flight from NBO to DAR, then proceed to Asia on CX's JNB-HKG flight, giving you an itinerary like this:

AMM-LHR-NBO//DAR-JNB-HKG-SIN-BKK-HND-PEK-HKG-JFK-LAX-ORD-SEA-LHR-AMM

(Although I'd be tempted to use your N. America transcon to do JFK-YVR or v.v. rather than JFK-LAX, but it's your call.)

Anyway, you could experiment using the online tool to see what the difference is in bottom line, or how it would work with your schedule.

Without having checked anything on the online tool, I'd wager that the fuel surcharge savings will exceed $1,000 USD. Please let us know a more exact amount when you try pricing it up.


+1
The shorthaul LAX - ORD - SEA legs will barely be enjoyable, much less in the league of CX's F service to YVR. I'd use the 2 segments elsewhere....

Confirm that they will let you back track jfk-LAX-SEA....sometimes in the fine print it doesnt allow you to fly "backwards" in an RTW itinerary, though that may only apply to mileage redemption rtw's.

First another minor correction In line 1, "JHB" should be replaced with "JNB"

Note some of your segments, do not have a first class cabin, specifically:
All the RJ flights (LHR-AMM-ISU-xAMM-LHR)
The three flights from SIN to PEK

The AMM-ISU-AMM is not likely to be the best use of two segments (either cost or mileage) and I also seem to remember that flight two/from Iraq are not eligible for AA mileage.

As Gardyloo suggested, starting in AMM might save you money and segments that can be used elsewhere.

The constraints of the xONEx fares are very clearly stated in the rules, at
http://www.oneworld.com/content/libr...20explorer.pdf
and direction within a geographic region is not generally a problem (i.e. back-tracking is not generally prohibited). The limitations of nonstop trans-continental flights in North America, Australia, and to/from the UK, and the number of permitted segments in each geographical region (especially the continent of origin) are generally the issues requiring the most strategic planning.

First, thank you SO much for all your help!

You're quite correct when it comes to price differences! ex-JNB prices out at 72,940.00 + 9,808.00 (tax) = 82,748.00 ZAR or approx 12,072 USD while ex-AMM is 10,028.00 + 549.28 = 10,577.28 USD, so about a $1500 difference! Positioning to AMM is also about $1100 less in J. I don't love the routing options out of AMM but the whole trip is a lot cheaper than starting out of JNB. The overall cost with the J ticket is more than just starting in Seattle but only by a few hundred dollars so probably worth the extra miles and the stop home on the way IMO.

I'll probably throw this at the end of the trip to break the whole thing up a bit more, not a huge problem really. And though I knew you were right I was curious what the xONEx planner would say to an ex-ISU RTW and it validated but failed at booking.

I didn't even think of YVR for some reason, gotta love that CX F!

Thank you again for your help, I've got some thinking to do.

You were right, ended up at about $1,500 less!

Yeah, I get that, the issue was that I had already used up my 4 segments in Asia and the options in Europe weren't particularly attractive or great in mileage. I'll definitely take the JFK-YVR flight on CX though and hop back down for a Seattle visit. I forgot that such a flight existed.

Changed Itinerary
 

So I did some more research and I think starting in RUH makes a lot of sense. With BA's "taxes" and surcharges it ends up being more than ex-AMM, (~$11,200 VS. ~$10,600) but the positioning costs to Saudi Arabia are cheaper AND I'll get to experience more F without using any RJ flights. New proposed routing:

Positioning: SEA-xDFW-xLHR-RUH and return

1. Riyadh (RUH) - London (LHR)
2. London (LHR) - Bangkok (BKK)
3. Bangkok (BKK) - Delhi (DEL)
4. Delhi (DEL) - Tokyo (NRT)
5. Tokyo (NRT) - Beijing (PEK)
6. Beijing (PEK) - Hong Kong (HKG)
7. Hong Kong (HKG) - New York (JFK)
8. New York (JFK) - Vancouver (YVR)
9. Vancouver (YVR) - xDFW - xSFO - xORD - Seattle (SEA)
10. Seattle (SEA) - xLHR - Nairobi (NBO)
11. Nairobi (NBO) - xLHR - Riyadh (RUH)

The American routings are just for mileage and any other suggestions, even of an added destination somewhere else in the world would be appreciated.

Also, I know that getting a visa for Saudi Arabia can be very difficult, but am I not correct in thinking I'm fine visa-free in RUH for less than 24 hours?

I have not heard of this possibility, and it's not reflected in the current US State Department web page regarding Saudi visas: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p...y_requirements

Assuming you'd be flying on the LHR-RUH BA flight, I fear you might be stopped at the counter at LHR (or at SEA when checking for the positioning flights) when they do the document check. I'd certainly check this out completely before committing to this course of action.

Are you planning to use this trip to make AA EXP or BA Gold? If so there might be some tweaks that could lead to more EQP/EQM/Tier Points without taking too much away from your itinerary.

I hope that you've played with this itinerary on the online tool, to check for misconnects (i.e. BA's SEA - LHR arriving shortly after the departure of the single LHR - NBO daily flight, or the 16 hours between the arrival from NBO before the departure for RUH) to ensure that these fit your needs. Likewise, I hope that you've noted that there are no F cabins to/from DEL or NRT.

Having recently passed through Amman on Royal Jordanian a few months ago, I would advise you to not avoid them just because they don't have first class cabins. On our short trips (i.e. AMM - MAD and CAI - AMM) the flights were outstanding, every bit as good as anything else available in C/J in OneWorld. Amman has an excellent airport with fine lounges.

The other great advantage of having AA issue your xONEx ticket is that you have access to their Round-the-World help desk (1-800-247-3247) for making free date/time itinerary changes. From other threads here you can find many testimonies to that group's abilities, in many cases unmatched by other OW airlines.

http://www.saudiembassy.net/services/transit_visa.aspx

This states that transit visas are not required for 18 hours or less. Should I expect trouble from BA or Saudi immigration considering I'd be taking the return flight a mere 1:40 later? Is that the kind of thing I should talk to BA about?

Yes, AA EXP. I would love to hear any advice you have about changes to maximize EQP/EQM, though as of now my route give me ~104k EQP.

Thanks, yes, most of the planning has been done using the online tool so I know that, for example I have a ~23 hour connection for that route. I don't worry much about long connections because I like running around, though I'll hate eating the cost of a bunch of HEX trips, haha.

Yeah, my offhanded comment about RJ was a bit silly. I'm still considering going through Amman depending on whether I decide to head to Sulaymaniyah.

That is an advantage of starting in Jordan. How difficult is it to make the free changes on a BA ticket, especially while travelling?

Well there ya go. Looks fine, but I'd still be concerned as to how BA would react at LHR on the way to the Kingdom. I'd allow extra time so that they can (if possible) issue you a boarding pass for the return. (It will be on a different PNR as it's your first OWE segment, so might not be completely straightforward.) I would absolutely have something printed with a Saudi Arab government emblem on it somewhere describing what that web page shows.

I once did a LHR-MCT-LHR turnaround and the BA people at LHR couldn't give me the return BP in advance (because MCT-LHR was using an AA code.) So I had to get it from the (non-BA) service counter at MCT in the middle of the night. I couldn't go landside at MCT due to a bunch of Israeli visa stamps in my passport (and was so advised by the Omani transfer desk person) so had to wait around until the plane was about to board. I certainly wouldn't have wanted that to happen in RUH - no beer in the lounge. :eek:

If you're going to make EXP as it is, then no worries. Fly where you want to go. But remember no Plat/EXP bonuses on JL segments.

I have had serious problems with changes to BA tickets and would second the idea of currying favor with the AA RTW desk. That said, while AA does the issuance on behalf of RJ for ex-AMM tickets when using the online tool, I'm not sure that those xONExs carry AA's (01) ticket numbers, so the RTW desk might balk. You might phone them to see how it would work. In any case I'd probably try to have at least one of your transoceanic flights carry the AA code, even if it's on CX or BA metal. That would probably grease the skids with AA if you want to use them to sort out changes. Note BA (and QF, don't know about CX) charge "administrative" fees for date/flight changes even when they don't require a re-issue.

Not sure how you arrive at 104k EQP.
Unless I am mistaken, your routing is RUH-LHR-BKK-DEL-NRT-PEK-HKG-JFK-YVR-DFW-SFO-ORD-SEA-LHR-NBO-LHR-RUH which Great Circle Mapper says is 50768 miles which is 76152 EQPs

?

Happy Travels.

You are correct, but I also have my positioning flights SEA-DFW-LHR-RUH-LHR-DFW-SEA in J which is 18966 miles which is 28449 EQP for a total of 104601EQP.

Thanks for the warning though :)

I'll make sure to bring the printout and be prepared for some argument. Maybe if I get my F boarding pass for the return flight I can trick my way into the Concorde Room, though I feel they're probably smart enough to not allow that.:D

I'm purchasing the SEA-RUH-SEA tickets through AA but the LHR-RUH segments are BA flight numbers so I don't foresee that specific issue, at least. At least I have short layovers in RUH going both directions, and I assume that I'll be returning on the same plane, so don't have to worry about a misconnect raising the ire of Saudi immigration...

Would AA Canada ticket this trip for me? I'm in Vancouver frequently enough that it's not much of an issue to hop over to YVR, and the Canadian exception would allow me to purchase the ticket converted from SAR-CAD and then USD by my CC issuer :td:, right?

If you can take advantage of the Canadian exception, and can get the AA RTW desk to setup your itinerary for ticketing in Vancouver, I expect that you'll find that the ex-RUH trip will be substantially cheaper than what is currently showing on the tool.

I hope that you are in possession of a credit card that has eliminated onerous FX add-ons. If not, I very much advise that you apply for one (i.e. Chase's BA, Hyatt, or Priority Club card, or Cap1). 3% of $11k is surely worth the trouble, and it will continue to save you lots while travelling.

P.S. I think that if you ask the AA RTW desk to choose the AA codeshare flight number for the HKG - JFK segment, that they'll be happy to facilitate the Vancouver ticketing.

They are issued by AA with AA (001) ticket numbers and the AA RTW desk handles changes, etc.

Wonderful! This is what I will do, if possible.

Yeah, I have a Capital One Debit Card for this very purpose. I'd love to have an actual credit card with one of those companies, but at 19 I won't be approved for any card without a cosigner AND nobody will give me an $11k+ limit as my 1040 doesn't exactly reflect my assets.
I understand that AA is paid a fee when I choose the AA codeshare of the CX flight, and am happy to support them, but what effect does this have when it comes to CX, other than the obvious lost revenue?

*Many pre-flight issues that might occur would need to be addressed with AA rather than CX, right?
*Once I get my boarding pass am I completely a CX pax? (You always check in with the operating carrier, no?)
*Does booking a codeshare affect me when it comes to compensation? For example, I know that CX will give very generous cash compensation to F pax who are forced into J due to equipment change. Would this not happen on a a codeshare?

And finally, other than to convince the AA RTW to ticket this itinerary, would you recommend (or not) using codeshares in general?

Thank you so much for all your valuable, detailed advice!

I don't know what "AA Canada" might be. There's only one AA RTW desk, and it's in the USA.

My understanding of the "Canada exception" rule was that since the advent of online e-ticketing this has become nearly a moot point, since by using the online tool you can pay the price applicable to the country of issue regardless of where you're sitting at the moment. If you were trying to get paper tickets, then I believe the RTW desk could set it up to have the reservation queued to a Canadian travel agent (not an AA station) who, based on some talks I had with one in Vancouver right about the time the online tool was launched, would charge a pretty hefty fee in order to write the tickets on an AA plate. When I asked for their most senior agent and started talking about xONEx issuance, she got very very quiet. I plainly was not speaking her language.

Now this is all swirling around in my head, and subject to my error, so I would certainly phone the RTW desk and get their official word on it.

On the matter of AA passing through BA (or QF) fuel surcharges, which usually represents the biggest part of the differential between AA- and BA-issued tickets, it would be good to hear of some recent experiences. Since the JBV was launched this autumn, AA has been passing through (to us, the had-ees) BA's fuel fines on e.g. award tickets. I don't know if this has extended to RTW tickets, but it wouldn't surprise me at all. My guess is that AA's rates desk that handles RTWs (used to be in Dublin, don't know if they're still doing it) would probably come up with pretty close numbers to those returned by the online tool. But do check it out - it could be serious money.

In my experience different airlines handle codeshare pax differently. I can't speak to CX, but on e.g. BA, who I've flown using AA and AY codes, you couldn't do OLCI and you couldn't pre-select seats, but once on board there was no difference. The boarding pass reflected the actual code, in case I needed it to claim lost miles or something.

On JL (AA codes) everything was the same as if it was a JL ticket.

Yes, you always check in with the operating carrier. In case of something going sideways, you deal short term with the operating airline, then later with the issuing airline, who will punt you in the general direction of the operating airline, who will refer you back to the issuing airline... get it?

Bottom line, I would personally only use codeshares if it had a significant impact on my mileage earning (e.g. Plat/EXP bonuses) or if it would kosher things with the RTW desk.

How long is the turnaround at RUH? In my experience, international transfer at RUH is not easy or quick.

When ticketing with AA, booking the HKG-JFK flight using the AA code could incur an AA fuel surcharge. However, booking that flight using the CX code will not.

Can you provide some additional details, please? I'm thinking about this for my next AONEx.

Airside transit was closed when I connected there, and I needed assistance from airline to get me through since I had no visa for Saudi Arabia. This took a bit of time. Fortunately I had a few hours to transfer so no danger of missing my onward flight.

Read more in the relevant part of trip report.

The turnaround in RUH is 100 minutes. Your trip report mentioned some sort of transit option (although you couldn't use it) that did not go through immigration. They probably just use the same airplane from the same gate to head back to LHR, right? Both flights operate from T1, at least. I think I'll call BA to ask about this once the call center calms down from the weather problems. The BA site won't book a return flight at RUH as their system enforces a 120 minute MCT.

Deleted

As Kiwi Flyer mentioned, the transit process at RUH is not the easiest, or at least it wasn't for me. My situation was a bit different as I was actually arriving without a visa (not just transiting; it's a long story) but I had the clear impression that even a quick transit would be confusing to ground staff and immigration officials, perhaps because so few people do it there.

Of course, YMMV and everything may be very smooth in your case. Looks like a fun itinerary and trip!

Still working on this trip, nothing booked yet. One interesting thing I just learned from speaking to the AA RTW desk is that they refuse to ticket any itinerary that doesn't use a flight operated and marketed by AA for one of the transoceanic sectors. Upthread someone suggested I ask about booking the AA codeshare on the CX HKG-JFK flight, and the agent said that wouldn't be acceptable. When I said that I thought it was Oneworld policy that they ticket any itinerary regardless the carriers, she said that that was not true and that the tariff department's transoceanic sector rule had been in place since last year :td:

Just wanted to say I think your trip sounds absolutely incredible and hope you have a great time. $10000 sounds like a decent value considering the number of flights in F. I've been to almost all the places you're headed and if you have any questions I'd be happy to help. Good luck!

Thanks!

I've actually changed the trip a bit in that I decided to spring for an AONE6 because it's really only another 2-3k and you get to see so much more that way!

My planned routing is now:

Positioning: SEA-xDFW-xLHR-RUH and return

1. Riyadh (RUH) - xLHR - Sydney (SYD)
2. Sydney (SYD) - Bangkok (BKK)
3. Bangkok (BKK) - Delhi (DEL)
4. Delhi (DEL) - Tokyo (NRT)
5. Tokyo (NRT) - Beijing (PEK)
6. Beijing (PEK) - Hong Kong (HKG)
7. Hong Kong (HKG) - New York (JFK)
8. New York (JFK) - Santiago (SCL)
9. Santiago (SCL) - Easter Island (IPC)
10. Easter Island (IPC) - Lima (LIM)
11. Lima (LIM) - xLAX - xLHR - Nairobi (NBO)
12. Nairobi (NBO) - xLHR - Riyadh (RUH)

Prices out on the online tool at 48,835 SAR or ~$13,000.

Hopefully getting AA to ticket it might knock a couple hundred off that.

I'll ticket as taking the AA LAX-LHR flight but I'll probably change it to BA once they've ticketed.

Any advice on changes to this is appreciated.

Why not take a SYD-AKL-SYD sector when you visit SYD? You have enough sectors available but will have to slum it in Business as no OW seats in First trans Tasman.

(edited: I now see you have several sectors in some of your 12 lines shown above and have actually run out of sectors if you ticket as shown. Maybe you can visit NZ next time or do a separate non AONEx trip ex SYD? )

I haven't planned out my travel in Oceania, but I am certainly going to purchase some separate tickets and will make it over to New Zealand, I just need to look at all of the options, including the Visit Australia and New Zealand pass.

Once I posted my original message I went on the OneWorld site and looked at the prices. I'm in the UK, and if I was to originate in Saudi instead of here, the price would be halved. OneWorld 6 continent in F looks to be $11500 on my conversion (SAR42800 straight to USD), much better than the $20000 priced from the US

I think BA New First is far superior to Flagship on AA but the real treat is HKG-JFK on CX F. I've only flown the Cathay First on one trip but it is incredible, the only superior flights I can remember are Emirates and Singapore in F (Or should that be R, they were suites). You have a long time to get hammered, eat and sleep, rinse and repeat.

I think this is a great itinerary because you hit the major cities and can do lots of side trips. In China I did a circle route of one way flights; Beijing, Xi'An, Chengdu, Lhasa, Shanghai, back to Beijing. Each flight was $100 or so and it was good fun, having done those cities I would say you have seen most of the big sights in China. Chengdu is home to the panda sanctuary as well as being a stepping stone to Tibet. If you're interested I booked my internal flights on ctrip.com, a lot of people use them. There is a competitor but I cannot remember the name right now

If you wanted to see Singapore and/or Taipei I would do these from Hong Kong, again in a circle of one-ways if possible. This is what I did when I did my first big tour of Asia, at age 19. Singapore is a fabulous city but you will run out of activities quickly, I would suggest more time in Taipei. Taipei 101 is what I went for initially but the various temples, museums and hot springs were a blast

Cambodia would be the obvious side trip from Bangkok. Angkor Wat is magnificent and something you really must see once in your lifetime

India is a problem as seeing the country properly would take a long, long time. While various areas have their sights and unique cultures, there are so many things to do and see that I'm sure it needs it's own trip. If you get the chance, Goa is a beautiful beach destination and very different to the rest of India

My mom is from Nairobi, so I must suggest a trip to Mombasa. Certain safety concerns in Kenya these days mean travelling extensively may not be the best idea but you should go see Mombasa

I would say Japan needs it's own trip to be seen properly but you can easily get the 7 day JR Rail Pass and travel the length of the country and take in Osaka, Kyoto, Nagoya, Nara, Hiroshima, Kobe

Just some suggestions there. I don't know how long you intend on staying in each of these destinations but those would be the obvious side trips that I would want to book separately if I really wanted to explore

On a side note, Riyadh to Sydney via LHR sounds like a solid 30 hours of flying. You can't get QF F on that can you?

Thank you for all the great advice! I'll look into everything that you have recommended. ^

In fact, you can. BA F to LHR and then QF LHR-SYD on the A380 in F :D That flight stops for fuel in SIN but counts as a single segment as it is a single flight number.

That is an exceptional flight, looks like the stars are aligning for you mate. My parents have done Qantas and Singapore in A380 F and I've done Emirates and Singapore. They are all great and all have Dom so no worries ;)

The Qantas Lounge in Sydney is one of the best in the world, another great aspect of the QF F flight.

How long are you planning on taking to do all this? I'd love to be able to take 6 months or so and really go slow. Like I said, shoot me a message if you want to know more about any of the cities, I'll fill you in

I am most looking forward to the A380 flight and the CX HKG-JFK :D

I am constricted by my school schedule, so I plan to leave June 15 and return end of September.

I'm sure I'll take you up on your offer for advice, thanks again so much!

I scrapped Africa based on time constraints, plan to do that with the family in 2012. Here is my final itinerary, an AONE5, which is on-hold so that I can go purchase it at the AA desk in YVR. Due to some errors in the online tool I was unable to book online, it kept failing after I put in my credit card.

Positioning: SEA-xJFK-xLHR-RUH and return

1. Riyadh (RUH) - Amman (AMM)
2. Amman (AMM) - xLHR - Sydney (SYD)
3. Sydney (SYD) - Bangkok (BKK)
4. Bangkok (BKK) - Delhi (DEL)
5. Delhi (DEL) - Tokyo (NRT)
6. Tokyo (NRT) - Beijing (PEK)
7. Beijing (PEK) - Hong Kong (HKG)
8. Hong Kong (HKG) - New York (JFK)
9. New York (JFK) - xLAX - Santiago (SCL)
10. Santiago (SCL) - Easter Island (IPC)
11. Easter Island (IPC) - Lima (LIM)
12. Lima (LIM) - xSFO - xLHR - Riyadh (RUH)

I'm going to Vancouver on Friday or Saturday, got the Capital One card to avoid FOREX fees.

Do you have a visa for Saudi or do they now allow airside transit w/o visa, or what?

cheers,

Henry

They allow TWOV if your connection is less than 18 hours and you are taking the next flight. Both are true in my situation. You can also get permission to leave the airport of your transit is between 6-18 hours. I'm considering applying for their free transit visa designed for 18-72 hour transits for convenience.