WP to decrease Y & B fare EQM from 150% to 100% on March 1
 

Brace yourselves! It appears they're not done with us yet.

According to this thread just started in the DL forum, YBM fares will yield only 100% qualifying miles in 2009 (was 150% thru 2008).

The corresponding change for NW would be to reduce YB fares to 100% EQM.

This change makes even less sense than most. They're not even rewarding their high-fare customers. DL is becoming an equal opportunity, egalitarian screw job.

I think somewhere a bean counter realized that the airline was solvent because they were selling frequent flier miles, and started looking for other things they could sell, and realized they can sell EQM too.

Seems to be a resulting trend towards making it harder to make elite by actually flying in favor of making you use the airline-affiliated credit card/car rental company/etc to make elite. Then they don't even have to bother flying you anywhere to get money for the EQMs!

DL = Sinking ship!
 

This would be a stupid change for DL. Why wouldn't they want to encourage us to buy the higher fares for 150% eqm? I guess that shows how stupid DL's management really is.

>>>>>>.I think somewhere a bean counter realized that the airline was solvent because they were selling frequent flier miles, and started looking for other things they could sell, and realized they can sell EQM too.

Sounds like this is coming true:
...charges will include a $25 tax on citizens traveling with any other airline, as well as a mandatory $30 surcharge for passengers who decide to just stay home for the holidays instead...additional charges would also apply, including a $15 fee for every piece of luggage customers have inside their bedroom closet, and a one-time payment of $40 for any American whose name is Greg..."Watching television last night cost me $250," said Baltimore resident Michael Peterson, one of many Americans now forced to pay high airline costs for folding their laundry and going to the ophthalmologist. "It's ridiculous, but what can you do? I guess that's just the price of not flying these days."

http://www.theonion.com/content/news...s_now_charging

Reading the NW and DL forums is like watching a train wreck. This particular change is completely irrational... Perhaps DL management has some grand vision for the FF program of the future, but they are completely botching the implementaton.

Yes this doesn't make sense at all. When you are charging a person 3 or 4 times the going rate on a fare why screw them out of 5 or 10 dollars worth of miles. 5 or 10 dollars worth of miles that AA, US, UA, and CO will give them without batting an eye. Completely stupid.

Well, this is majorly disappointing. I have to buy a lot of last minute tickets due to the scheduling of my trips. The one consolation I have is that these Y or B fares yield an 50% bonus. I don't understand the rationale at all - seems like you'd want to encourage the purchase of these tickets.

(Wondering Outloud)

What surprise is coming in the NW Elite packets????

--- besides the watered down EEP and probably unusable PMU Certs

Holy cow! DL is freakin' retarded.

It's almost comical now.

Whatever disease US Air had much have been contagious, as DL has certainly caught it.

Perhaps, they're trying to throw so much crap our way, that then they can backpeddle and throw a few crumbs back.

I am still hoping this is a misprint. Seriously, this would hurt Delta more than the travelers. They'd be making highly profitable Y and B fares look more unattractive than they already are.

UAs 150% EQM/EQS are looking better all the time.

When do cards go out so I can get some status matches going?

It's the frequent flyer version of death by a thousand cuts. What's next?

From the Head in the Azz Press:

Behind closed doors, on a slow Friday afternoon at the DL HQ (the version of the W.H.) in ATL. The president aka CEO sign the "Change Bill" regarding to the value of DL/NW Elites.

At first the person in charge of the FFP agreed on having a TV pool news reporter. However, a few decisions later it was decided not to have a reporter to record the 'important news' of change in the FFP. It is reported that every DL/NW flyer is really excited of the 'Change' and 'Hope' for more.
:td:


There is some additional sources reporting there is a new 'Bill' called "Yes We Can", in the works. This Bill will affect all DL and NW Plats, in which DL can and will put PLATS in middle seats while sitting in coach.

:p
-BondAir007

(All the info is not true. Bottom line, I am not too happy. But I am trying to have some fun with this.)

Can someone point out what does DL expect people to get by gaining Platinum Status? To me, there is nothing left in the program that makes it attractive.

Even the domestic upgrades to FC is a PITA since I cannot do online checkin or kiosk checkin, need the elusive agent to issue the boarding pass.

I am glad I only have 250K miles (from a total of 2M) left with NWA. Need to burn that ASAP.

At this rate, I'm not sure what would balance out all the changes they've already made. I'd settle for a crew ID that let me non-rev... ;)

In a Twilight Zone episode, that might work out. :) This is real life. :confused:

but remember... in a month or 2, all non-rev status goes to DOH, so you'ld be outa luck to most places, unless you'ld have been with the company since 1955... ;)

OH NO!
 

Fiddlesticks! This is one of my worst fears coming true. Reducing YB fares to 100% EQM sounds like a very good start to reducing mileage lower fares (LUT/LTK). :eek: (The minute I found out about the changes in the FB program I thought they may try a FlyingBlue-ation (TM) of WP/SM as well.)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

:mad:

Say it ain't so...

What a terrible time to be waiting to start my 1st job Ipost graduation) as a consultant in Atlanta :(.

(Please note, this appears unconfirmed. I've yet to see a seconding of this from another DL Plat, and/or a scan of the documents. So let's all keep a level head about ourselves. Hopefully today, we'll get some more info on this one. )

This counterpoint is being brought to you by someone who's thought they're in the running for the least profitable Plat in the system. Ironically, this change effects me the least, considering I'm a K kinda pax. So this discussion is academic to me... until you come for my K fares. Yet, as a customer, it appears we've transferred from the moronic bus to the idiocy train... because in the words of a grifter... don't beach the whale!

Counterpoint:

Does 150% EQM on YB fares provide measurable providor benefit... aside from goodwill, customer loyalty, etc?

Is the unmeasurable potential lost revenue of unpurchased YB fares greater or less then the expense of the 50% EQM bonus?

Will this drive away more revenue then the expenses being saved?

Why do people buy a YB fare? Usually because that's the only bucket available, for what they want/need. Either because they want to be at a certain place at a certain time (late purchase, business need, personal crisis, etc), or they want a certain benefit from that fare class (YUP, PMUs, etc). Will this change be the X-factor to drive them to another carrier?

Point:

This breaks the charge-more-get-more, charge-less-get-less paradigm. Some pax can't buy F (legal, auditing, policy, etc), so 150% in YB should be considered a requirement. Very confusing.

They're gonna do what they're gonna do, We're gonna to do what we're gonna do. They can be holistic, we can be holistic. I'm still waiting for the TLK announcements. That's my X-factor, for MR all-in... or all-out.

You left out an important one: Mileage Upgrades.

I rarely buy anything above the lowest BUT...the 150% EQM is a kicker for me when deciding to cough up for the ability to give NW my miles for an upgrade TPAC or TATL. It takes a little of the sting out and is a bit of a balancing data point when I am making that decision. I bet this will impact the number of people who buy-up to a B for upgrades.

[QUOTE=avidflyer;11133106]Yes, me being one of them as you well know my friend. I honestly still think this is a misprint in the packets, but if it is not, this really (and I mean really) is so an example of the classic "penny wise pound foolish" behavior these jokers seem to manifest. Geesh .....:td:

Safe Travels.

Most changes to the program I can deal with but I buy most TATL fares as B and enjoy the 150% EQMs plus the chance for an upgrade (~50% last year).
Not sure this will be worth it for me anymore...

Bought a fare for March with the expectation that I would earn 150%. I guess I am likely out of luck. I hope this is a mistake... :(

Because they can, or at least think they can. They figure that most people buying those tickets have to, so they are stuck. What they haven't figured out is that those same pax can comp over to another airline, buy those fares on them and get their miles. Very shortsighted.

Does customer loyalty provide measurable providor benefit?

I occasionally get B fares - mostly because I have no choice or it's from a consolidator, but if I were short by a few EQMs, I'd possibly consider buying a B fare to push me over the top. No status means I'm gone.

We have to fight back on our way out.

http://www.saveworldperks.com/

For a minute I thought you meant I'd only be able to non-rev to Doha, and I thought, well, gosh, my friend's sister lives there and wants me to visit, but... then I realized that wasn't the DOH you meant. D'OH!

Yet how much sting has been taken out, and how much weight on that balancing point is being moved?

So I'm hearing you're buying your way into Coach the least expensive way possible (V fare), or you're buying your way into Business the least expensive way possible (B fare + miles). So the question is... if EQM for B went down to 100%, would you still pay the V->B fare difference to sit in Business?

At the individual transaction level, I'd say 99.5% of people would say "yes", they would still buy B fare, add miles, and sit in C. The Business seat for 9-15 hours is more important then 2000-3000 EQM.

Yet what about brand loyalty? My perception is that the customer would look simply at "I paid more, I want more". Yes, they get more by sitting in C, yet they want the EQM bonus. And when competing airlines still offer 150% EQM, that brand loyalty will be broken, and the customer will shift allegiances.

Short-term, this appears to be a winner. Long-term, this appears to be a loser (if other loyalty programs continue 150% EQM!). IMO.

Yet this is all academic. Has anyone confirmed this report?

All indicators seem to be pointing to the fact that Skyteam's FFPs will continue to be increasingly harmonized in the coming year into more HCP's: High Contribution Programs not intended to influence or incentivize buying behavior as much as to reward loyal customers with a more profitable contribution margin.

Consider this: If DLNW's TATL JV partner and only other significant part of ST only offers a maximum of 100% on full-flex Y fares and only 125% on the most widely favored business class fares (Z), it seems quite obvious that the 150% on economy tickets would disappear sooner rather than later.

Indeed they do have a grand vision for the FF program of the future...you are seeing the first part of it before your eyes...anyone want to opine that in 10 years or less, FF programs will be ancient history?


Boil the frog, slowly.

FF programs as we know them will have changed. The patterns seem to indicate that the flying portion of RDM/EQM accrual is going down, while the portion of RDM/EQM via commerce is going up.

How do you get them? How do you use them?

Perhaps the thread title should be "More Negative Flight Mileage Change Coming?". If the CC/hotel/etc promotions are any indication, RDMs/EQMs aren't going anywhere.

Brand loyalty and rewards programs have an interesting 5-10 years ahead of them. There will be lots of changes, for the airlines, for the hotel chains... for the grocery stores. FT/FW/SD will just find the most out of balance, and those that benefit the most the consumer side of the relationship. With as many airlines as there are, one of them is going to offer more-for-less, in one way or another, and the others will find some way to follow (or not follow).

I agree, but I don't think they can go all the way down that road (BA EC) here in the US. It's a much better fit when most of your flights are long-haul with international business class product... not so much so when you've got a huge domestic network that has to "compete" with WN, and a population that largely prides itself on disinterest in anything beyond its own borders. ;)

The latter part is definitely true for DL.

Remember the pudding guy? :)

never mind "loyal". Take this word out and your post would be closer to reality.

I will stick by an earlier comment made elsewhere: DL and AF clearly think they are now sufficiently big in terms of market share to be much less interested in chasing individual rather than corporate customers. Basically, giving perks at the "bulk traveler" rather than "retail traveler" level. With exceptions, the individual tiered traveler is just small fry.

has someone seriously not thought that perhaps they will start giving out only partial EQMs for discount fare classes?

Interesting point.

If DLNW can make $6050 profit selling a $7000 J class ticket to someone who hates DL and only flies them once a year because they have to, why should they reward someone else with elite status who is "loyal" but has a negative contribution margin after flying on less than $4000 of heavily discounted and mistake fare tickets, spends hundreds of hours and hundreds of dollars in payroll costs hogging the CSR lines with constantly changing award tickets and makes a sport out of profiting from every loophole in the FFP to be found?

I agree this is the next logical step, but also logically they would have rolled this out at the same time as reducing EQM on cheaper fares. According to posts in the DL forum, though, all fare classes will earn 100% EQMs next year. The way DL has handled this roll-out is laughingly bad.

They can't fill the premium cabin with $7000 customers, that is reality. That is the reason they offer $4000 discount fares and use the remaining seats as a marketing tool for the AL via FF program awards. Turn the question around: Why would DL NOT use the empty seats to as a marketing tool. reduced margins are better than no margins at all.

The $4000 (or $2500 for that matter depending on how smart someone is) I was referring to was someone making PLT but generating little to not profit on deeply discounted, low profit economy tickets versus one passenger not giving a damn about PLT or earning award miles making the airline a $6000 profit on one flight. Which kind of customer should a best customer program try to attract and please? If those customers are less motivated by a FFP, what are they motivated by?

However, to your point, there is also a big difference between a $4000 discount biz fare and giving the seats away as a marketing tool. Turn the question around:

Why would DL not reduce the size of the business cabin if it is found to be structurally too large? Or why not replace it with a denser economy plus seating that is less subject to corporate policy restrictions and has a lower price differential?

It is possible that the most profitable Skymiles customers are those that send DL lots of partner revenue, fly once in a while and either never redeem their miles or do so in a non-savvy way blowing them at high rates with high fees. It is possible that the least profitable Skymiles customers are the ones that frequent this forum and know how to work the program to their advantage. If you were designing a program to contribute to profitability which customer would you go after and which one would you try to frustrate?

I really do think this is just a simple matter of the airlines realizing:

- EQMs cost almost nothing to create
- They have value
- People who don't value them won't care if you take them away
- People who do value them will do things to get them

I doubt many people buy a B or Y fare because of the 50% bonus. Why give 50% bonus miles when you could make that person use a credit card from a bank that buys EQM off you for cash at 100% margin?