A340s and transPac
 

Sitting in the C12 WC at MSP, in from HNL on NW920, and marvelling at the range of speculation from the cockpit crew and the HNL station staff about whether NW will really refurbish the 744s or buy A340s for transPac and the longer CONUS/HNL flights. The captain thought that the 744 decision was postponed, and the -30s would be kept around, the station crew thought that the 744 decision was postponed and the -30s would keep flying until A340s replaced both the 744s and -30s. Hmmm... setting up a -30 base in HNL is acctually consistent with both theories. Could the 744 refurbishment announcement be a negotiating tool in an A340 dialogue?

I don't see the 744s going any time soon. As far as we all know, the new WBC seats are being installed and the refurbishment of Main Cabin is going forward as well.

You may be thinking of the 742 which the company is thinking of replacing some TPAC services with the A330-200 (for the range).

The 330-200 is either currently being test for LROPS as it is already certified for 180 minute ETOPS.

Since most routes from the U.S. to Asia go over land the majority of the way anyway, there should be no reason for the A330-200 not to be LROPS certified.

Heck, if a 757 can make it across the OTHER pond, I'm sure an A330-200 can make it accross the Pacific!

The A333 has the range to fly what's left of NW's flights ex-Hawaii (HNL-NRT, HNL-SEA, HNL-MSP, seasonal HNL-DTW, OGG-SEA). The A332/A332 have the capacity for flights to the Mainland, but I suppose it’s possible NW may eventually order/configure some aircraft in a high-density configuration. HNL/NRT will likely be operated by one or two flights with a mixture of B744 and/or A330 (e.g. one B744, two B744, two A333, one B744 and one A333, etc.)

BUT … the DC-10-30 isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. While I imagine the NRT flights will be operated by the B744/A330, the Mainland flights will be operated by the DC-10-30 for years to come… however, there are signs pointing to the DC-10-30 being retired in 2007.

Richard Anderson has indicted NW will purchase the A346 or B773, with the latter being favored, in the near future… I wouldn’t except an order until economics improve… but if they do, the aircraft will likely wind up on the HNL/NRT runs…

Eidetic's referring to flights ex-HNL only http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif.

My musing was prompted by the total awareness the cockpit crew and station staff had of the B742 phase out, and the B744 u/g announcements, and despite knowing this, the speculation was that there might be A346s on the way that would impact the -30s and B744 u/g. No mention of B773s.

I think NW has the demand for DTW/HNL yearround. HNL/MSP must have some of the highest load factors in the NW system, and similarly, CO's EWR/HNL B764.

BTW, the common opinion expressed was the shift on 1 July 03 to only offering mileage u/g HNL/CONUS to Y, B, or M fare bases was driven by "harmonizing with DL".



[This message has been edited by Eidetic (edited 08-17-2003).]

The B773 is favored over the A346... partly b/c there's no PW option on the latter and partly b/c of overall economics...

I'm surprised NW didn't make DTW-HNL year-round alongside MSP, and added a second MSP flight seasonally...

why on earth would NW choose a 777 over an A340 when the latter has so much crew commonality with the A330?

- The overall economics of the B777.
- There's no PW option on the A346.
- A330 will fly mostly across the Atlantic, A340/B777 Pacific - they'd have different rates of pay, so commonality is somewhat lost.

4 engines vs 2 engines, total fuel burn is a big factor

That and the fact that the 340 is UGLY! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Three things.
First, IP, how near is the "near future"?
Second, I believe no US airlines operate the 773. I find that intriguing, and that NW is looking at it.
Third, and last, I've heard that the 340s don't have the best climb performance..
On a side note, the 773 would fit in R. Anderson's goal to elminate excess pilots and engines off planes (i.e. DC-10 3 engines to 2 A330 engines, and 3 DC-10 pilots to 2 A330 pilots) While the A340 has 4 engines...

When the economy recovers & traffic into the Pacific picks up.

Only NW and UA truly need the capacity of the B773 on more than a couple routes... UA was interested in the B773 but finding cash to meet the payroll and pay bills became a bigger priority.

To the NW flight planners lurking on this board, please run the numbers on a yearround HNL/DTW n/s (and 2x HNL/MSP seasonal), with DL pax factored in. No pax (F or Y) who had a choice between a NW DC10-30 and a DL 764 would pick DL, even with the lame IFE on the current -30s. It's the seat and pitch that matter on the longhaul redeyes.

I now think that DL *HAD* to revive the HNL/ATL n/s before DL pax got too familiar with NW's HNL/MSP n/s and the seasonal HNL/DTW. Note that the *sudden solution* of DL's pilot rest seat problem on the discontinued HNL/ATL n/s, and the equally sudden appearance of HNL/ATL A fares, just before the DL/NW/CO announcement.


[This message has been edited by Eidetic (edited 08-18-2003).]

Let's not forget CO's EWR-HNL/IAH-HNL routes either, brah http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Once a DL pax gets accustomed to BF over WBC, who knows what'll happen... and DL needed to compete with an East Coast-Hawai'i flight.

I second that! Spread the word around NW! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I also heard that A340s cruises at slower speeds. In addition, in one of his previous Richard Talks newsletters, he said that he's also favoring the B773 because of the cargo and passenger capacity.

IP, can I also speculate that NW likes to diversify their fleet, so it's maintains its position to bargain in future a/c orders?

- Pat

Not only that but I don't think airlines operate 773s on scheduled service to the Americas . The current -300 model is sold as a 747-200 replacement and so is rather range/payload limited for ong haul flights. You'll see that situation change with the -300ERs. The -300ERs could be a 744 replacement where the extreme range isn't needed.

Might be true of the A340-200s and most -300s (all but late models) which came with engines found on your garden varietal A320/19/21 (either IAE2500 or CFM 56, I forget which one). These a/c were rather lacking on thrust.

The R-R Trent-powered A340-500s & -600s (and also found on some -300s) have quite a bit more thrust.

Most/all of NW's routes are not ETOPS-limited so 777s will fit in nicely.