What will eventually replace the DC-10-30 Hawaii runs?
 

After NWA retires their DC-10-30s, which aircraft will replace their domestic Hawaii runs? NWA has previously stated that (due to union restrictions perhaps?) the A330-300 will not serve either the domestic or trans-Pacific market. Of course this still gives them wriggle room for Hawaii. Although I can envision A330-300 service from MSP and DTW, I can’t imagine NWA dedicating a single, expensive, brand-new plane to LAX and two planes to SEA just to fly to HNL and back. The cost just doesn’t seem feasible. Anybody have any idea?

The DC10-30s are not going anywhere soon. The -40s are being retired next month, but a few of the newer -30s will stick around even after the A330-300s arrive, presumably to fly routes like Hawaii.

Why boeing 744 of course! It only makes sense
to add the capacity to the reduced routing
of only one flight per day from California
and believe me they would fill it up most of the time.

Naah. The 757-300 is the plane designated to succeed the old -10s where domestic lift is concerned. (A330s replace them on the Atlantic.) No reason why ETOPS 757-300s can't serve HNL.

Richard Anderson and others within NW have stated previously that there are no plans to ETOPS certify the 757-300. I don't know what the long-range plan is for Hawaii...I can only assume that another aircraft type will have to join the fleet...the replacement for the 747-200s has not been determined and there are no more 747-400s on order (although United has several parked in the desert I understand).

Sankaps: I probably should clarify my question. I’m well aware that DC-10-30s will replace DC-10-40s currently serving Hawaii -- in fact, they already have on two flights (MSP and early SEA). I’m just carious if anybody has any knowledge of which plane will replace the -30s.

On paper it’d look good to retain a handful of the -30s built in the late 80s to serve HNL -- these planes are newer than some of 763s that AA serves Hawaii with -- but that’s not going to happen. Northwest has made it clear that ALL DC-10s will be retired by 2006 -- possibly earlier.

VegasAgent: United has (and had) quite a few 763, 777 and 744 parked in the desert and more will probably be joining them soon (I’ve been told they’re obligated by contract to fly X wide bodies in their domestic system and now they’re trying to opt out) but I doubt NWA is a candidate to purchase them. They have a history of not wanting newer aircraft that weren’t built for them… e.g. in the late 80s they accepted delivery of 757s built for Republic and then immediately sold them to America West and more recently they acknowledged that they wouldn’t be interested in US Airway’s A333s if US chose to unload them.

There’s been some speculation on this board before that 777-300ERs will replace the classic 747s, but NWA is huge on fleet simplification and they still have options on the A330/A340 family (from a ‘pact negotiated in the late 80s at low prices - I read that on another message board). It’ll probably take a 777ER or A340 to see resumed Detroit - China N/S service.

But it’s good to hear that the horrendous 757-300 will probably not replace the DC-10 on the Hawaii runs!

I can't believe NW would take on 777s as well as A330s. As you say, they're all about fleet simplication.

So we still haven't answered the question... if the 757-300s won't be ETOPped, the -10s are gone by 2006 and there are no plans to acquire more 744s, how do we get to Hawaii?

I have not heard that the DC10-30s are going to be gone by 2006. The newer ones have quite a lot of life left.

Even if they will be gone by 2006, NWA has plenty of time to figure out the replacement for Hawaii... another year or so before they need to make that decision.

the -300's are comming ETOPS wired, not not installed. It will make it very easy and quick for NWA to fulling ETOPS them for over water use.

Nwa has said they won't use them for HNL but the option is there (unfortunately!).

I’ve read before that NWA will retire its DC-10-30 fleet before the last A333 is delivered in 2006. The age of the aircraft is irreverent -- AA’s soon-to-be-retired F100 fleet averages just 9 years while every MD11 ever built is expected to be retired from pax within the next 5 years. Yes, some of the -10s were slated for domestic service but that was suppose to happen only after their interiors were refurbed (re: replacing WBC with standard F). There are no plans to do that with the -10-30 serving HNL.

There’s rumors circulating that NWA will acquire the 9 763s (formerly of TW) that AA is retiring. Allegedly Boeing is giving them a cut-throat price and will factory condition them as well. These bids would serve the domestic system. Somehow I question this rumor and came onto FT to see if the knowledgeable community had any inside info.

I didn't realize ETOPS was something to do with wiring. Thank you for enlightening us.

AA is retiring the F100 fleet for reasons primarily associated with the costs to maintin them which apparently skyrocketed when Fokker when bankrupt a few years ago and for fleet simplification.

As for aquiring 767s from AA/TW...that would be a big surprise. I would have liked to see the 767-400 replace the DC10 fleet (although everything I've heard about the A330 seems fairly positive) as I understand it the 757 and 767 have almost identical cockpits so training costs are minimal.

Am I detecting some sarcasm here ? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

The reason NW is currently not flying 777's is because payload wize, the 777 is too big an aircraft to fly the Atlantic routes from its hubs and too small an aircraft to fly the Pacific routes from its hubs. Also, NW wants a bigger C class seat ratio in the Pacific market as opposed to the Atlantic market. NWA will make a decision in the next couple of years as to what aircraft will replace the 747 Classics.
As far as the Hawaii route is concerned, I haven't heard any firm news.

The reason NW is currently not flying 777s is because they don't own any. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif



[This message has been edited by B747-437B (edited 08-16-2002).]