NW Program Stinks - Morons in Charge
 

I have to say the staff at Delta SkyMiles and overall employees at Delta seem to have their act together.

I am top with TWA (was) and AA and recently decided to try some other airlines. Main reason is routes. Let's not kid ourselves, the reason most of us try for top levels is to get upgraded along with other benefits.

I sent a letter to Delta, NW, and United to see if they could comp me a upgrade equal to or close to my AA Exec Plat. No response from United.

I have Elite on NW and really have not flown them much. I did like NW and thought this was the one I would chose as my next airline for all my west coast and asia travel. I sent out the letter and couldn't believe it when I called back and found that they not only dis-approved it, but downgraded me. That sucked. I could have lived with the dis-approval, not happy but could somewhat understand it. The downgrade is nothing more than some pin head trying to project there power.

Delta came through with flying colors and will reap the rewards. I just booked over 4,000 dollars worth of travel in the next 3 weeks. Next year I will spend about 50,000 just for me.

Delta came through and they have been very respectful about this. NW can basically kiss my a??. Their staff in FF program doesn't have a clue. What a bunch of morons....

Delta keep up the good work.

Good luck trying to get domestic upgrades on DL, nothing automatic like NW (or TWA), and if you're on a LUser fare forget about it.

I see. What level of elite did you manage to hold by not flying NW much? I would have to guess you were "downgraded" because you did not fly whatever miles were needed for that status? Or are you saying they decided to stick it to you by denying a given elite level you were otherwise entitled to?

NW is not, from most posts here, especially generous with comps. For those that have achieved elite status by flying (a lot in some cases), that actually doesn't seem like such a bad idea.

Attitude and language like that belong on DL.

We're quite happy with your choice and wish you well sitting in coach squalor on DL while we enjoy NW's (and CO's) more liberal domestic upgrade policy.

Someone who spends $50,000 per year on airfare is unlikely to travel on a LUser fare. Delta is a great program for high-yield travelers.

For flyers who travel on all but the deepest discounted economy tickets, Delta's Platinum Medallion upgrade policy is more generous than Northwest/Continental.

Furthermore, I believe Northwest's coach product is more deserving of the "squalor" label than Delta's coach cabin.

As a Delta SkyMiles Platinum Medallion member, you receive:

- Complimentary Crown Room Membership
- Access to international lounges even when traveling in economy class
- Unlimited complimentary upgrades on Y, B, M, Q, H, or K fares that may be requested and confirmed at time of ticketing (50 United States, Bermuda, Canada, the Caribbean and Mexico)
- If upgrade isn't confirmed at time of ticketing, you will be waitlisted
-Members who reach 40,000 base miles in the calendar year will earn two one-way North American Medallion Upgrade Certificates. Medallion members will receive two more one-way North American Medallion Upgrade Certificates for each additional 20,000 base miles flown within the same calendar year. These certs may also be used to upgrade a companion.
- Additionally, members receive six new complimentary worldwide Platinum Medallion Upgrade Certificates for use on most Delta flights in Y, B, or M

That seems quite generous for a SkyMiles Platinum Medallion.
Just curious if you know whether or not any of these benefits are also available for a mid-level Medallion (gold?)

http://www.delta.com/skymiles/member...vels/index.jsp

http://www.delta.com/skymiles/medall...fits/index.jsp

Also, please checkout a "Delta Flyers' Guide For FlyerTalkers on the Delta Forum." It is THE best Delta FAQ resource and can be found at:

http://www.fopaws.com/FT/Delta.html

From the link above, benefits for Silvers on DL:

Not very good.

How many, and how/when can they be used?

Same as above.

Woohoo!

Now that I can get excited about.

Gold only adds a 100% mileage bonus instead of 25%.

So, while for Plats it is quite a generous program it seems, for Silvers and Golds I don't see much to get very excited about here.

Am I missing something?

If you are planning to spend that much money on DL, you should look into their new corporate incentive program. You can earn miles in your personal Skymiles account and your company can earn points in the Sky Bonus incentive program at the same time. Or if you are self-employed, you could get both rewards.

http://www.delta-skybonus.com

Can you please explain why NW would "downgrade" your elite status from what it already was? What level were you, and what did they downgrade you to?

I have never encountered anything but extremely friendly, professional personnel at WorldPerks.

Good Question? Why would they downgrade me?????

Again, must be a nucklehead looking to express power. I just don't understand why someone from another Airline program with a proven record of spend mega bucks on travel, decides to take interest in your program and you slam the door in their face. To h?ll with them.

Yes!!! and I sent a letter to The Bellagio in Vegas asking for Full RFB + first class ticket comp! Never gamble there but I told them I would be bringing 1 Million Dollars!
lmfao

[This message has been edited by liketofly (edited 12-06-2001).]

I still don't really understand what happened here. What elite status did you have, and how had you earned/received it? Did you have a Silver trial membership? Something else? Were you supposed to fly X miles?

Though I suppose it's possible that someone might decide to downgrade you out of spite, I find it hard to believe and you haven't said enough for me to really follow your argument.

But since you think the NW program stinks, I'm guessing you'll be fine on DL. I just hope you earn at least Gold and are not stuck with a 25% silver elite bonus.

fwiw, CO seems very generous with comps and provides essentially the same benefits as NW, along with a few enhancements.

Yes, you are correct, I think the Elite was given to me because I fly first a couple times in the last few months on NW. It was a temp one good through Feb 02.

I guess the really problem I have it that NW didn't explain, wouldn't explain, and just wrote a memo in my record stating match has been denied and status downgraded. Letter mailed.

The overall point here is that I flew about 70k miles on TWA and AA last year. TWA went to the dogs and finally was bought out. AA gave TWA equal status which helped me out because I flew TWA most of the time.

I am a business person and fly for a living.. I wanted to spend my money on NW and they shun'd me. As a airline, why would you do this? As a business owner I am confused.

Oh, by the way United sent me a email today and matched me to their Middle PM status equal to Delta Gold.

Just don't understand it, very poor business process.

4 upon hitting silver, 4 for each 10K miles flown after that (gold also gets 4 additional when hitting 50K and then 8 for each additional 10K) in a given calendar year. You can purchase additonal points if needed with miles or cash.

Points can be used for any flight segment up to 800 miles or combined for longer segments. They are only valid on domestic flights plus flights to/from Canada, Bermuda, the Carribean and Mexico. They can't be used on the famous LUser fares (the lowest two tiers in DL's fare structure).

Plats can confirm upgrades using segment points any time; gold within 72 hours of the flight time; and silver within 24 hours of the flight time.

For all elite tiers, you get 2 of these when you reach 40K miles in a calendar year and 2 additional for each 20K miles in that same year.

They are good for the same destinations and fare classes as the 800 mile segment upgrades. Their advantages over the 800 mile segment upgrades are that you can use them to upgrade a companion (must be travelling with you) and can be confirmed at the time of booking.

I'm a new silver on DL and have been focusing my optional travel on requalifying for NW silver for next year since I hit 25K on DL. Ergo, I've not tried to use my upgrade points and am probably not as qualified to comment. But since I come out of a DL hub, I doubt I'll have many chances to use the segment upgrades due to too much competition from my home airport. I'd probably only be able to use them on biz trips anyway since my personal travel habits are to use lower fares (the difference in price for an upgradeable fare compared to an L or U fare out of a DL hub is usually quite significant).

The upgrades aren't automated, of course, since you have to decide when you want to use them and then request them (on the plus side, you can do this via the web). Other than the possibility of getting companion upgrades as a silver, the program falls far short of NW's automated, unlimited space available upgrades. Also, because I don't fly out of an NW hub, I am usually upgraded; most of the flights ex-CVG are ARJs.

NW sent me one of those temp silver combined with a challenge targeted promos and I've done all of my discretionary travel this year with them, so I guess it worked. I also had the good fortune of having CO flights for some of my biz travel. And you can best bet that when I have a choice (similar pricing) between NW/partners and DL for biz, I'll be choosing NW.

Nothing against DL. As I said in the buzz thread, I do love the service I've always gotten from DL and for some routes, they're the best game in town. But in the position I'm in now, I'm most likely to end up silver (or maybe gold if the pricing works to allow me to send ALL my biz travel to one airline). So I have to go with the airline that will give me the most bang for the miles I fly.

I love flying so much that I envy the folks who can fit in 100K a year. I'm working full time in a position with a small bit of international travel, but I am also working toward a degree in night school on the side, so I couldn't increase my travel just yet even if my employer weren't consciously cutting back. But it is my hope to be a top tier level flier as part of my career once school is over. And you can bet that if NW is still doing so well by me, I'll still be doing so well by NW. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Holly

(edited: never confuse "few" with "many" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif )



[This message has been edited by HollyHP (edited 12-06-2001).]

I don't like the title of this thread -- the "morons" part -- but I have to say that I have the worst experience with NW of any airline, not in terms of in-flight service but on the ground.

In 3 or 4 phone calls about various issues, the attitude of the WP staff is always "we are right, you are wrong" and they do not listen. They interrupt.

They have a siege mentality, they are defending themselves instead of trying to make the customer happy within the rules.

And why should it take 4 - 6 weeks to recognize your status in their computer?

Why do they have to be rude when I call and ask them about it?

Why do they have to get their facts wrong and then insist they are right when their own letter and written material says otherwise?

These people confound me. I am a 1K, and Silver on US and Gold on AA. With all the problems of UA, for one, I have not had anywhere near this level of frustration as I have with WP.

I have met with these people personally. I think it comes from the top. It is no coincidence that NW is the airline that left those people out on the tarmac in a snowstorm for hours.

Of course, they're as good as automated for Platinums. Since Platinums receive unlimited complimentary upgrades (50 United States, Bermuda, Canada, the Caribbean and Mexico on all fares except for L/U) they simply request them at time of ticketing. If the upgrade doesn't clear then, they are placed on the waitlist.

Nothing but grief, but this part that is above really pissed me off! Yeah I remember very well about the ground stop at DTW during the snow storm, I was NRSA at the time and was suppose to be on HP but they cancelled all the flights so I switched over to NW since they were still operating. I still kick myself in the ... for getting on that plane know darn well that flights were being cancelled left asnd right. The cabin service sucked for the 6.5 hours that we were on the ground but of the T(jetway area)
The only reason I will ever try to fly in bad weather is due to an extreme emergency.

As to the other beefs with customer service and whoever else. Yes some of the employees can be really testing, and I mean they do nothing but shut you down. IM very sorry that happens but believe me when I tell you if you have a problem and u get a hold of a supervisior 99.99999% it will be resolved.

If you contiune to have problems with NWA I would be more than happy to look into it for you!

Have a safe Holiday!

OK, I started this thread about the morons in charge of NW FF program. I received my letter today. Here in a nutshell is what it says.

Worldperks Silver Elite Status is awarded members who accumulate a min of 25,000 miles each year - No Sh?t!

Only NW Actual miles count - again, this is brain science.

Review of your record shows you received comp Silver Elite for 01 through promotion. You were given opportunity to fulfill this opportunity for gold or silver through 2003. Complimentary account upgrades are limited to one per member; therefore we are unable to comply with your request.

OK, first if I ask for a comp I know what I am asking for and don't need a lecture in requirements.

Second, my comp was good through 2003 according to this letter. As I even know this must me a typo, they must mean through Feb 2002.

Third, you asked them to provide me with a comp/promotion? I didn't, so following their rules, I can never receive another comp....

Again - morons..........

Listen, I am not tring to piss off loyal NW flyers but let's get really, someone asks for a comp. You give that to them with restriction that they fly a min of 8 segments in 3 months or something. Just don;t be idiots and throw away business.

DELTA - got my business and even some United in there. NW has some short comings and needs to work them.

PS.... Patricia signed my letter......

Let me see if I have this straight. You flew FC a couple of times, and NW comped you Silver Elite even though you had not flown 25,000 miles. Now, even though you were a comped Elite who had only flown NW a couple of times in the past year, you requested an additional comp upgrade to Gold or Platinum and are upset that they didn't give it to you? As a business person, do you think it makes good business sense to give infrequent customers special treatment and perks whenever they ask for it, regardless of how little business they have done with you?

I'm going to fly a lot more in 2002 and should make silver status by midyear..I've been reading a lot in flyertalk and learning.... I had to post to this thread..since I'm going to do it via NW.
NW is a strange mix. 10 years or so ago on a flight to LAX we were stranded for over 4.5 hours on the tamrac in Ontario CA after being diverted. Total idiots..
There's the time my wife, who was 6 months preggers at the time, was refused admitance to a WC with my card. It is a lifetime membership that she had actually paid for since she's our company's Treasurer. Technically they were correct, since I wasn't there.. but..
Then there's my most recent run in in August, when, after upgrading to first class using miles, when I cancelled the flight WP basically said "tough". I called and got nowhere, when I asked to speak to a Supervisor, I was told "you have no case ..I see no reason to have you speak to a Supervisor." The lack of people skills is incredible.

I've also been upgraded several times with little or no prompting. For the most part, my problems have usually occured with people who are staff, not actually on the planes. Let's hope I've made the right decision.

I'm going to fly a lot more in 2002 and should make silver status by midyear..I've been reading a lot in flyertalk and learning.... I had to post to this thread..since I'm going to do it via NW.
NW is a strange mix. 10 years or so ago on a flight to LAX we were stranded for over 4.5 hours on the tamrac in Ontario CA after being diverted. Total idiots..
There's the time my wife, who was 6 months preggers at the time, was refused admitance to a WC with my card. It is a lifetime membership that she had actually paid for since she's our company's Treasurer. Technically they were correct, since I wasn't there.. but..
Then there's my most recent run in in August, when, after upgrading to first class using miles, when I cancelled the flight WP basically said "tough". I called and got nowhere, when I asked to speak to a Supervisor, I was told "you have no case ..I see no reason to have you speak to a Supervisor." They kept the 20,000 miles. The lack of people skills is incredible.I hope and pray the guy was laid off.. he was typical of some of the incredible jerks I've run into at NW..

However..
I've also been upgraded several times with little or no prompting. For the most part, my problems have usually occured with people who are staff, not actually on the planes. Let's hope I've made the right decision.

This is very assuring to the people who actually fly NW year in and year out and I applaud WP for it. Any comp in which one gets something one doesn't pay for, like upgrades for an elite member, is given at the discretion of the airline. Why is that so difficult to understand? Play by the rules that everyone else plays by and you'll get your elite status. If you're really such a big shot business spender rayk, then I would suggest that you might get better results by talking with your gigantic wallet instead of running around whining on FT. You would do this by paying for F tickets every time, thus avoiding the necessity to deal with "morons" who, for reasons that seem to elude you, aren't going along with your desire to get something for nothing. Given your attitude, I would venture to guess that the "morons" would appreciate not having to deal with you, either.

Having to read and respond to idiotic posts like this is a waste of every thoughtful FTer's time.

Listen, I thing people forget to read the beginning of the threads…

The point is your FF programs are to attract customers and keep them - right?

Well, you have someone with a proven record of loyalty, but instead of just denying the upgrade request you decide to -à Deny it and downgrade the current status, which I should have had until Feb 02. What should a good, common sense person do?

I would have denied the request - which is fine as I stated above, but don't add denial with insult by basically stating - I will teach you for wasting my time - and take away something that was give to me. The kicker is all airlines do matching but because NW decided to be nice, they gave me a upgrade without asking for it. And on top of that - you are never allowed to ask again?

Doesn't make any sense - My Statement Stands!

I don't get your so called point. They comped you silver for the year (I had to fly enough to achieve my status). Despite having the comp status, you did NOT fly even 25k miles. Now, you are upset they will not give you status for next year despite your "proven record of loyalty"? To whom? Clearly not enough to NWA to fly even 25k.

BTW, you should re-read the letter they sent you. It does not say they status was awarded through 2003. It said you had the opportunity to meet certain requirements to retain the status, but, despite your incredible loyalty, you failed to meet these requirements.

I'm beginning to wonder if this isn't troll bait...

Where in NW's letter does it say they are downgrading your status? You said they originally gave you Silver status. What did they downgrade you to from Silver? Did they revoke your Silver status completely? Please quote the statement in the letter where they say they are "downgrading" you.

The letter doesn't downgrade me. I called the NW Perks center and the notes on record per the attendant stated I was denied and I was moved from Silver to Basic. I then verified this online.

I don't know how many times I have to say this - I am not pissed because I didn't get Silver or Gold status, just disappointed that another loyal FF member from another airline has decided to move business over to NW and was looking for some incentive to do so.

What pissed me off is that they, without me asking gave me Silver status through Feb 02 months ago without my knowledge or request. Now that I ask for a match to my top level status on AA, they decided to deny it and then out of spit downgrade me 2 months in advance back to basic. And to add insult, inform me that because they upgraded me before (without me asking) I am never allowed to be upgrade again. I guess this is like; someone gives you a rental car that is out of gas, and since you didn’t use it you can never get another car. Doesn’t make sense.

If they didn't move me back to basic I probably wouldn't be in this forum.

Bottom line – they send a inform letter which basically talks in 6th grade language. Instead, they should have sent a letter and stated something like this:

“Mr. XX, Thank You for requesting match status with Perks. At this time we are not able to accommodate your request, but we would like to continue your Silver status for another six months to win your business. I hope this is satisfactory, as we value your business”

Yes, this is correct. I was responding to a post which basically had the point "life is obviously good for plats, but what about golds and silvers," so I was speaking from that perspective. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

I wanted to add a couple of other thoughts about the question of DL vs. NW for folks reading this thread. I got the temporary silver membership when my company's travel agent priced a RTW ticket for a biz trip on both DL and NW. DL ended up pricing out less on the trip so the company ended up picking that. Consequently, I basically ignored the comp Silver because I figured I wouldn't get enough miles on NW, and made my 25K on DL primarily from that RTW ticket.

Later, I learned of the partnership between NW and CO. I had a biz trip on CO in mid June and a leisure trip to Europe on CO in late June. Due to school and work commitments, I had only 4 available weekends in late May and early June to fit in the three M class or higher trips the challenge required to keep silver for the year. I elected to do it. Because I fly out of a non-CO/non-NW hub, I ended up with a 100% upgrade percentage on all flights for which elite upgrades were available. After the two international CO trips mentioned, I ended up with about 19K miles on NW. I focused the rest of my leisure travel with flights on NW (along with 2K miles thanks to Hilton as a partner in that 200% partner match) and made the 25K goal by the end of October.

Ok, so that's my history here on how I got silver on both airlines. In the experience of getting both, I honestly believe NW works better for me in terms of both what I get as silver (unlimited, space available upgrades compared to the 4 800 mile segment upgrades) AND the ability to USE those benefits. If you are in say DTW, MEM or MSP, your experience would very likely be the exact opposite of mine, because you'd have more competition as a silver for getting the upgrades from NW just as I do getting upgrades from DL. YMMV.

As for customer service (the other question raised in this thread), I've honestly never had bad experience from either, not even as a basic member. I've had things that didn't post right on both, but those things have always been corrected within a timeframe that satisfied me. And I've never been treated rudely in my travels by either NW or DL ground staff or flight crew. I suppose I've just been lucky or maybe I have lower expectations than some folks.

But to sum up, being based out of a DL hub, I can't benefit much from any elite tier lower than plat while I can benefit even as a silver on NW. In my mind, NW gave me a good opportunity to earn silver easily the first time and that marketing tactic paid off for them because I changed my flight habits to keep it. That's what elite challenges and comps are all about, for any airline. I suspect that if the thread originator does NOT change his flying habits next year, DL is no more likely to grant him an extra year of elite status based on what business he MIGHT bring to them than NW demonstrated.

Thank You for the letter. You are Right! Comp and matches are to get business and that why they have them. You are also correct about customer service, most of the time they are good and considerate.

Now for moving business - yes Delta has won my travel, including my Travel from STL to CVG, CVG to ANC. ANC to HNL, HNL to STL, STL to BWI, and ORF to STL all in the next 2.5 weeks for $4k of money.

Actually because Delta was so nice and pleasant, they will also receive a good share of business next year, along with AA which I am top level on. I am even thinking about mileage runs on Delta and AA to keep both statuses.

You are correct, that match/comp's are to attract and gain loyalty and NW missed the boat.

PS. Another experience I had on NW. Coming back from Seattle this year I was sitting and hit a little turbulence and part of the cabin fell of. Some plastic piece of the light fixture and cut my head open. Had to get napkins to stop the bleeding. Fun thing, the flight attendant didn't really care. I guess I should have sued like the rest of America coffee drinkers at McDonald's - http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Thank you for the kind offer, ernestb

I have had no real complains about NW in the air. It's the customer "service" people I have problems with.

And why are Silvers treated like "base members" (ugh, that term), with no special rez phone number?

This airline has a lot to learn about treating customers. I can just imagine someday having a real problem stranded somewhere with some NW person barking at me, "documenting" my file, with no recourse at all. That is why I worry about flying NW much. My profile says "NW Silver" but it is 4 - 6 weeks before they post that to my account.

So I guess I will fly other airlines for that 4 - 6 weeks. I am certainly not going to give my business to NW during that time. So like a lot of things they (and other airlines) do, it backfires on them and they are too stupid to know what business they are losing.

I would never, ever have customer "service" people treat customers like I was treated. And this has happened now several times.

I know others report terrific experience with NW, but that is my experience.

4-6 weeks? Whenever my elite status has changed, it has taken the standard 2nd day for the miles to post plus a day for the status to change. Was the flight on CO or KLM or some other partner?

Brad

rayk...you're right. Enjoy DL.

rayk - what about United? Is United also going to get your business for comping you to Premier Executive?

I'm afraid that you are really going overboard on this comping business by simultaneously asking three airlines to comp you - one of which had already comped you for the current year. I have heard that United only comps once. So effectively you've got a comp on United which you wont be using (since you mention mileage runs on Delta and AA to maintain status on those airlines). Say goodbye to any future comps on United - when you may have needed a United comp.

[This message has been edited by PG (edited 12-07-2001).]

One other thing. I sent an email about 5 days ago. No answer. I have called and called the WP number. You go through a whole rigamorole re putting in your WP number, your PIN, etc., then after being on hold and going through this a recording says "we are unable to handle your call at this time" and hangs up on you.

It's another nail in the NW coffin for me I'm afraid. Atrocious.

Re: NW's treatment of Silvers versus the other Elites, keep in mind that the "Elite Curve" is probably a bit more skewed on NW than on other U.S. carriers (except possibly UA).

There is a LARGE contingent of NW Platinum Elites out there who fly to Asia (or Europe) 2+ times WEEKLY. For example, my dad did this for the first nine months of this year due to his job, and racked up in excess of 475K qualifying miles as a result (this includes about 75K for the staus Q-promo that NW offered this past summer). Assuming his company paid about $1/mile for the tickets (all in WBC), that would equal $400,000 to NW's bottom line.

So the question for NW is, with the limited amount of resources available, whom do you offer the additional perks to: those at the bottom of the Elite pyramid, or to the people at the top who comprise the majority of NW's income? It's sort of like politics, in that politicians could solve the problems of the poor and working-class, but instead largely cater to the middle-class and rich, who vote and contribute to campaigns.

[This message has been edited by avek00 (edited 12-07-2001).]

What happen if all WP member decided to write the letter to NWA asking for what you ask for? They're doing business here, not giving out freebie. What kind of business are you in if you can't think of this logic. How many flight have you taken with NWA this year? How many miles have you log? MAYBE that's the reason? They don't know you. Can they take your word for it that you are going to spend 50k with them next year? If I stop by a gas station and fill up a tank of gas today. The next day, I go to the same place and want to fill up another tank of gas but I have no money. Do you think the owner of the station will TAKE my WORD for it that I will pay him back and let me fill up another tank of gas?
Yeah and I crack my head open in the bathroom but the FA didn't even do an incidient report on it. lmao

In contrast, I'll have Platinum status on NWA doing about 80k miles this year at an average cost of <$0.07 a mile for a whopping total of <$5600. Perhaps a lot for mostly leisure travel, but I'm in the same bucket as your dad. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Yes, but I think that we can both agree that, generally speaking, the Platinum bucket is more likely to be filled with higher-yield rather than lower-yield fliers.