txp

Thank you. My plan is to travel by car to/from Philadelphia (car rented at PHL) and to not stay in NYC more than six hours. My destination in NY City will be **my quarantine location.** While at my quarantine location I am willing to comply with all conditions imposed by the order.

My only problem is with the minimum 14-day requirement. As written, the executive order seems to imply that once I enter NY state, I have to stay there for 14 days, in quarantine. I called the NY health department COVID hotline this morning. The person who answered the phone said that there is a minimum 14-day stay requirement. Upon further discussion she acknowledged that she was just reading the same executive order I was reading, and that this was her interpretation. She said that additional information and clarifications might be released soon by the Governor's office.

I also tried to seek clarifications from the Commissioner of Health and from the Governor's office, but so far I have not been successful.

As I said in a previous message, my goal here is not to circumvent the rules but to find out if I can make my trip while remaining compliant with the rules.

Often1

It's important to read the Health Commissioner's Guidance carefully. OP says that he is traveling to Manhattan for a day trip. That is necessarily less than 24 hours and is thus exempt. While OP's trip does not fit the examples provided, the language of the Guidance is clear that the example is not a limitation:

"The requirements of the travel advisory do not apply to any individual passing through
designated states for a limited duration (i.e., less than 24 hours) through the course of travel.
Examples of such brief passage include but are not limited to: stopping at rest stops for
vehicles, buses, and/or trains; or lay-overs for air travel, bus travel, or train travel."

txp

I think what the commissioner means by "designated state" is my home state of Texas. In other words, if someone flies from New Mexico through Houston and then arrives at LGA, that person is exempt because the person will have been in the State of Texas for less than 24 hours. Thus, there is no 24-hour exemption for my case. As the order stands now, I would have to stay in NY a minimum of 14 days because I will have been in Texas more than 24 hours before arriving in NYC.

Stgermainparis

OP, I think you are reading that right. Still, I just can’t imagine they’d want you in the state for 14 days when it could be 6 hours. Especially if you arrive and depart by private car and go to one location. The order is poorly written. Does it even address the matter of someone driving or otherwise transiting the state en route to another state outside of quarantine area?

jmastron

I have to ask, what is the format of this "business meeting" that makes you believe that participating in it qualifies as being in quarantine? Not having a clear exception for leaving earlier than 14 days may very well be intentional -- it defeats the purpose to have an influx of business travelers going "haha, I'm quarantining on this side of the conference room. Everyone try to stay away (except in the shared bathroom/hallway/cafeteria)"

I'm not saying you're trying to do that, but "at a business meeting" was specifically mentioned in one news article talking about how violators might be caught.

txp

Good question, and I am sorry I was too cryptic before.

The business meeting location is a family member's apartment in Manhattan (there is a business aspect to this visit as well as family) and I would be quarantining in that person's apartment for a few hours. No contact with anyone else in the state during my stay. In my opinion, this meets all quarantine requirements contained in the Commissioner's order, except for the 14-day requirement. I just don't want to be stopped by the police on the way out of Manhattan and be fined for not remaining confined for 14 days in my relative's apartment. As the order is currently written, I would be unable to leave NY State for 14 days.The other thing that could happen, under the strictest interpretation of the order, is that the doorman at that apartment building upon seeing me leave the building and not knowing the particular circumstances is *encouraged* to call the health department and report a quarantine violation. This is very clearly written in the order. This is why I am trying to seek clarification from state officials but so far I have been unable get an answer. I will keep trying.

txp

I know. I tried to get clarifications from the Office of the Governor and from the Office of the Health Commissioner. So far, no luck. One of the persons who answered the COVID hotline at the call center told me that based on her read of the order, anyone who enters the state has to remain in quarantine for 14 days. She said no one can leave before the 14-day period is over. I tried to explain politely that this does not make sense: take, for example, someone driving from Florida to NH passing through NY State. That person should be allowed to transit through the state without having to quarantine for 14 days. She insisted that everyone has to remain confined for 14 days. Whoever wrote the order clearly did not think about travelers who intend to stay less than 14 days in NY.

What's interesting is that the quarantine "requirement" is a legal requirement only in NY. In NJ and CT it's optional -- a strong recommendation but not a legal requirement the violations of which could lead to jail time.

stimpy

As a data point, I took the Acela yesterday afternoon from DC to New York. There is still no control anywhere other than the train conductor checking my Amtrak ticket. Penn station is nowhere near as busy as pre-COVID times, but it is still pretty busy. Much busier than Union Station in DC.

nrr

Early on when NY's CORONA cases were "raging", RI was planning a "ban" on NY'ers entering--didn't Cuomo have strong objections.

txp

Cuomo's position is that a quarantine is different from a ban. A ban on travel across state lines is probably unconstitutional. A quarantine is not. That much I agree with Cuomo.

This said, there is an aspect of Cuomo's order that is probably unconstitutional: preventing people from leaving NY State before the end of the 14-day quarantine period. As a comparison, Hawai'i's order mandates quarantine for 14 days or the duration of stay in Hawai'i, whichever is shorter. Cuomo's order does not have a "whichever is shorter" exception, suggesting that once you enter the state you are required to remain in confinement in New York State for 14 days. It is this specific aspect of Cuomo's order that probably violates the constitution -- I don't think NY has the right to prevent a law-abiding resident of Texas from voluntarily returning to his home state.

s0ssos

What ban? Cuomo is just a liar.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/rhode-isla...ry?id=69862605

The new order mandates all out-of-state visitors stay in isolation for 14 days.

txp

Article IV Section 2 of the US constitution states: The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states.

I hate to agree with Cuomo but I believe he is right. The original RI order was unconstitutional because only NY residents were to be placed in quarantine. Article IV Section 2 says that State A (RI) may not treat residents of State B (NY) differently from those of State A and from those of State C (the remaining 48 states). That's what the original RI was doing -- it was discriminating based on residence and this is not legal.

So Cuomo called the RI governor to complain that the RI order, as originally written, was unconstitutional because the quarantine was triggered by the place of residence, in direct violation of Article IV Section 2. And the RI governor agreed to modify the order.

With the new order, everyone was treated the same. Whether you are a resident of RI, NY, or TX, if you enter RI after having been in another state you have to quarantine. That is, in the new order the quarantine was triggered by travel patterns, not by residency. This is, unfortunately, legal, and Cuomo did not challenge the modified RI order.

In my view, the NY order is also in compliance with Article IV Section 2 because TX residents are treated the same as NY residents -- that is, it is the travel pattern that triggers the quarantine, not the state of residency. Whether you live in NY, NJ, TX, or CA, if you have been in Texas for more then 24 hours in the past 14 days you are subject to quarantine.

The part of Cuomo's order that is, in my opinion, problematic is that everyone is required to remain in quarantine for 14 days and is not allowed to leave the state. Maybe that's not what he intended to do, but that's how the order reads. I don't think that NY can prevent a law-abiding citizen from voluntarily leaving the state before the 14-day quarantine period is over.

s0ssos

I thought it was the prerogative of Congress only to regulate interstate commerce, and a state cannot do it? Per the Constitution.

nrr

Per quarantine: if you fly from Montana (an OK state) and connect in LAX for a flt to NY, one would NOT be subject to quar.; while originating in LAX you ARE.
Keeping track of people's movements can be a bit tricky.
Side note: There was a period where NYC was under quarantine--but trips to supermarkets and pharmacies were exempt--if you die under quarantine (from lack of food) it wouldn't be too nice.

Toshbaf

Effective social distancing is between 12-20 feet outdoors (not in an enclosed room), not 6 feet. 6 feet is when everyone is wearing a mask and not coughing, yelling, or singing.