Where are we supposed to talk about ways to use miles?
 

For years I developed a FL-IRA with the thought that I would have all the miles I would ever need to fly in comfort for the rest of my life after retirement. In the past couple of years two things have happen that make my plan less workable.

1. Due to a weak economy it looks like I won't be able to retire as soon as I thought. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

2. Due to a weak economy it looks like some of my airlines may be forced to retire before I am able to. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

So here I am with millions of miles that make me nervous and not enough time to use them to fly myself, so what do I do with them?

I have donated to charity.

I have exchanged them with my kids for work in the yard.

I have upgraded my neighbor for checking my mail when I travel.

I have given them to employees to let them know how much I appreciate them even though we can't give raises right now.

I have given them to friends and relatives just because I love them.

I have used them for business travel for my and my employees.

I came up with another great idea of gifting them to friends in appreciation for professional services rendered.

That post was closed because the moderator felt this was the wrong forum and suggested that I repost in Coupon Connection?????? Of course, using miles hasn't a thing on earth to do with coupons, their exchange, gifting or using them to light cigars.

I am so confused. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif So I have two questions:

1. Do you feel this is the appropriate forum to discuss ideas for using miles?

2. If not, which forum do you feel would be appropriate for discussing using miles?



[This message has been edited by Punki (edited 04-19-2003).]

Absent specific questions/ideas relating to a particular airline or destination, I would say that this forum is appropriate.

Why else would it be called MilesBuzz?

Geez, does it ever stop?

To clarify for the rest of the board, and in the hopes of furthering a conversation on using miles and points, let me offer that in the thread in question I specifically suggested that this idea be fleshed out here in MilesBuzz. (My quick typing did lead to a grammatical error above.)

But since the post in question contained other items that seemed better suited for elsewhere, I closed the thread and suggested that you repost with only the piece discussed above. Which you've done, and we're all the richer for it. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

So let's discuss all of the ways that miles can be used and how far the rules of programs can be pushed. And let's talk about the consequences and ethics of pushing those guidelines (but civilly, of course!).

Let's talk about ways to use miles here.

And, Punki, you have a great list above about how to do just that!

And let's have the discussions of "I have x to offer, do you have y" outside of MilesBuzz.

So any other ideas to add to Punki's list? Or any thoughts or concerns with items already on the list?

This is a good place for that discussion. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Best,
Gary
aka gleff
MilesBuzz and Delta moderator

[This message has been edited by gleff (edited 04-19-2003).]

Since your post is about miles but not necessarily airline specific, it seems like a forum like "MilesBuzz!" might be a good place to post. To me it seems like an much more appropriate topic for milesbuzz than some of the other topics that are permitted in milesbuzz but seem to deal with incredibly narrow topics that are only marginally related to miles.

As far as your concern about the longevity of your miles, I share that concern completely and am using miles as fast as I can. I am certain that they will become either worthless or significantly devalued over the next 12-24 months, even more so than they already have. It sounds like the magnitude of your problem is much more significant than mine though. I am essentially trying to use miles based on my perception of risk, for example with the changes to BA's program I am using all those miles before July 1, then I am emptying the AA account. The only account I am not really worried about right now is Alaska, just because they seem to be holding pretty steady and they continue to grow.

I agree... don't you ever stop... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

Very well done and in a classy way, as always Gary.

I would say it certainly appeared to be a solicitation for an exchange; as you wrote:

Such is indeed more appropriate in Coupon Connection.

Well, then, cblaisd, I was unclear. Any gift exchange must be a definite Win/Win situation, and it is best when each participant feels like s/he got just a little bit more than they gave.

Flyertalk would not be a very good place to gift exchange First Class Tickets to Europe for professional services, because most people on FT (I believe) either already have enough miles to get their own First Class tickets or else have a pretty good idea how to get enough miles on their own.

With somebody who has few or no miles, two (tax) free first class tickets to Europe is a heck of a deal--worth about $30,000.00 in before tax earned income.

Such a gift exchange would work beautifully with, and be a definite Win/Win for, someone who has a decent income, flies once or twice a year, puts some random purchases on their credit card and thinks that accumulating 30,000 miles a year is a big deal. Here on FT I know kids with enough miles for a first class ticket to Europe.

My goal in posting was to stimulate creative input on how to best use miles is the current economic climate. Heck I might even give somebody a free ticket for a really amazing idea. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

So, do folks have any new, creative ideas for uses for miles? or thoughts on the usefulness or propriety of Punki's idea to offer award tickets in exchange for professional services?

I guess Punki using them for travel would not be an appropriate suggestion as it is not innovative...but it is also not listed. Also not listed is trading them for other program points...hotels, cruises, etc. Point disappear quickly that way.

Offering them to one's employer has been discussed in the past, but is also not listed here.

Looking back, lots of discussions have been held on the folly of hoarding points, but then it is too late for that suggestion, if appears.

One could give them all away to charity, if the only goal was to rid oneself of all those nasty ff points. So maybe a goal analysis is important before going further?

Bottom line, one could ignore this issue, not make it a problem. Overtime the points will get used up (as currently done) or disappear as a value if a "bad" bankrupcy occurs (ie, one that the points are lost).

Thank you for the clarification.

As most FT'ers probably know, every so often a version of this debate breaks out in Coupon Connection or in Only Randy Petersen. It seems, on the one hand, that the terms of virtually every airline program are similar: while many (although not all) awards for upgrades or travel may indeed be transferred or gifted, they may not be "bartered" or "traded." Others point out that even so, one breaks no law (except maybe in California -- although that provision has yet to be litigated) by "bartering" or "trading" awards; only the airlines' Terms of Service are breached. So as to gleff's question,

it would seem to me that such would indeed constitute a "trade" or "barter." So.... the "usefulness" of such strategies is obviously high, and the "propriety" is obviously (I think) arguable -- depending on where one falls out on the legality and morality of of the airlines' unilateral proscription of "trading" and "bartering."

But back to Punki's questions:

and

For me some of the best use of miles that I've done is to get my parents to California for a week to be loving grandparents to daughter cblaisd while Mrs. cblaisd and I went to Hawaii http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif This was definitely a "Win/Win" situation, both familially and economically.

More generally, I think Punki is exactly right that "when each participant feels like s/he got just a little bit more than they gave" one has had a successful exchange. So, when someone who is for whatever reason needing and therefore valuing HHonors or Marriott or Starwood stays very highly and someone else is needing an airline award and therefore valuing that very highly (and the "official" venues for such exchanges are confiscatory in value), such an exchange leaves both parties pleased.

And given the exchanges proposed over the years in Coupon Connection, it's very clear that there is an infinite variety of valuations placed on various exchange opportunities depending on personal situations.

My husband and I have elderly parents, lots of miles, and brothers and sisters who care deeply for our parents who have no miles. We have a standing open offer to provide tickets to anyone who has time to visit.

My husband and his sisters all took trips this spring to be with his father after heart valve replacement surgery. My brothers are both going to see my mother this spring, as are we.

Our parents are no longer healthy enough to travel. This use of miles is a wonderful way to give them the gift they love best - seeing their children - and it ensures that each of us remain personally involved in their care.

So I am confused.
Do you just want to know if this is the appropriate forum for discussing how to use or do you want to discuss how to use?

I know you mentioned giving to charity already, but this is a sort-of tangent from that.

Every year, tons of university students go on spring break to not-so-cheap places (caribbean, europe mostly) to have a great week with their friends. as I fall in this group, I know that the majority of which are financially supported by their parents, and while the extra ~$700-1000 (sometimes more) is a hefty sum, it's taken for granted. I took three school trips in high school, and have done 2 now in university.

However, there are some kids who aren't as lucky, and are supporting themselves through university. When all their friends go to fun places in March, they're stuck at home. I don't think there is a charity already in place, nor exact ideas of how to do this, but it would be really great to have miles kicking around for something like this. I had 2 friends unable to come to the Dominican Republic this year because they were financially strapped, and they missed a great time.

Something along these lines maybe?

We do work hard, and a vacation is a great relaxer, not just a free-flowing booze fest.

[This message has been edited by schreibsman (edited 04-19-2003).]

ROTFL http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I remember college. I observe college students every day. I see no indication whatsoever of this "hard work" of which you speak.

OTH, the "free flowing booze fest" is a constant in most college students' lives. Not that there is anything wrong with that. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

...

[This message has been edited by ScottC (edited 04-20-2003).]

This is a joke - please tell me this is a joke - it is a joke - it is a joke http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Yes Jan it is a joke http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

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MRKEY

.....

[This message has been edited by ScottC (edited 04-20-2003).]

Ain't THAT the truth!

FWIW I think this thread is in the correct Forum.

p.s. - do you need any more yard work done in the next few months? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

My children did come up with a great idea (actually a second to an idea which was I believe, promoted by Ozstamps) and that is to seek out a family cruise.

We are looking at a UA offerings of river cruises in Europe, the French wine country or the Danube, or perhaps a cruise to Dubrovnik as Hunki's family is Croatian. Great way to burn a lot of miles fast.

May peace and the joy of this Easter morning be with you all. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif



[This message has been edited by Punki (edited 04-20-2003).]

Yes, Ozstamps I need lots and lots of yard work. Under the right circumstances, I might even be talked out of a first class ticket from Australia in exchange for yard work. I might even be talke out of a ticket to a free flowing booze fest (come to think of it I believe that may have already happened).

Please bear in mind, however, that I am a hard task master and do not gift tickets to yard workers who spend too much time sitting in the sun on the back deck drinking champagne with the easily distracted Hunki. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

It looks like the former has been resolved in the first few posts to this thread (was there really any doubt?), so we are all now "hard at work" on the second question.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[There is currently no way to edit a thread topic once posted.]

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Guys, what are we thinking giving miles to normal charities when there are poor , deprived students out there being denied a free ticket to the Caribbean or Europe ?? After they "work hard" all year ? How do we sleep at night ? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

As Punki had said she had given to other charities already and was looking for other ideas, this came to mind. Either I was way off with this, or the age gap has some very differing opinions on this matter. Maybe a little from Column A and a little from Column B.

I offer a suggestion in this similar recent MilesBuzz thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/008482.html

...and in that thread, Randy Petersen links yet to another thread on this subject that you might find interesting.

Where are we supposed to talk about ways to use miles?

at FlyerTalker get-togethers.

See (and talk to you Punki) in Düsseldorf (and you haven't been spending miles for a trip to Wengen yet ...).

Punki:

I have a suggestion for using some of your excess miles, and I would encourage others to do so, also. During my Navy career I did what I am about to recommend, and many folks were very appreciative.

If you live near a military base (or even if you don't), the Navy base in Puget Sound for example (or any base of your choosing), contact the Navy Relief Society, Army Family Assistance or Air Force Family Assistance, and let them know that you have miles that you would like to donate to them to use for emergency trips for service members in need. These organizations usually either loan or grant funds for emergency travel (depending on ability to pay back) and the travel is almost always top dollar, last minute emergency travel due to death or family illness. Often the family, earning very little to begin with, can't afford the last minute travel, but still must travel due to circumstances. Now a trip that in advance would cost $300 cost over $1200, and the service member has to borrow the money to pay for the trip. Contrary to popular belief, unless a service member is stationed overseas, such emergency travel is NOT paid for by the military!

By contacting the director of the local office, you would allow them to screen based on need (they do a very thorough job) and would contact you when an emergency arises that requires short notice, expensive emergency air travel. You would then make the airline arrangements, in concert with the assistance office, and save a military family a bundle of money in the process. It really takes no time, since the local office obtains all the necessary info and passes it on to you.

While I know most would do this out of the goodness of their hearts, it can also be a tax write off for those that want or need a charitable donation.

Win/win for everyone and some otherwise unused miles would be put to great use. If anyone needs help contacting such an agency, please send me an email and I will put you in contact with a military base near your location (or a specific location, if desired).

I have given quite a few tickets to needy Sailors, Marines and their families over the years so I can tell you it works, and it is appreciated.

Hope this helps to get rid of some of your excess miles!!

Steve

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"A Mile here is an Upgrade there!"

I have always wanted to supply a plane ticket to someone elderly (>seventies) who has never flown before. I remember my first flight and how I smiled the entire time. The feeling was great. Imagine how that would be magnified to a seasoned citizen. Sadly, all of my old never-flown-before relatives have breathed their last breath.

Punki, how do I get in line with Ozstamps to do yard work? I will supply the adult beverages.

In my vain attempt to burn all my UA miles this year, I offered my (well into their 70s) parents a First Class round trip to ANYWHERE on the globe they wanted to go. After thinking about it for a week they decided on New Zealand as it: "is only 3 hours and we do not want to fly any further than that".

When prompted that a flight MEL-AKL cost me exactly as many miles as MEL-AKL then onwards to Cook Is, Tonga, Tahiti, Fiji, New Caledonia, Norfolk Is etc, the answer was "No son, 3 hours is far enough". Enough to make any FlyerTalker squirm with frustration .. missing out on a FREE trip to Tahiti!

They leave this week, and had to get passports as they have never been outside Australia in 25 years.

CountinPlaces - here might be the deal. I'll sit back and consume the adult beverages, and you do the yard work, and everyone will be happy? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif



------------------
~ Glen ~

Come visit HERE the most ** FRIENDLY FORUM ** on FlyerTalk. No flame wars, no personal abuse, no substance abuse. Not much of anything really!

Oh, Rudi, I know, I know, I have to get to Wengen. It is not fair that I have to work so hard in my old age. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

But then, maybe it is not so fair that I am so young in my old age. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Maybe if some and or all of these characters really do show up at my house and intersperse yard work with drinking adult beverages on my back deck, I'll be able to squeeze out a free weekend++ for visiting my favorite older brother and his most lovely bride.

OBTW, Ozstamps, my Mom had never flown before Hunki and I got married (she was about 60 at the time). We sent her an airplane ticket to come to our wedding and after hemming and hawing for a few months, she decided to risk the frightening threat of flying in an airplane.

Well, we created a monster. She loved flying--even in coach. Thereafter we bought her UA tickets to come to stay with us every summer (she lived in Florida and hated the hot summers) and to visit for various other occasions. Sometimes she would just call and say, "I was thinking it might be fun to go to Vegas" which meant, would you please buy me a ticket, get a hotel and meet me in Vegas for the weekend. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Here is the kick. She would save up all the miles from the tickets we bought her to go visit other people. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif We didn't care, because it was so wonderful to have her spend time with the children and, of course, Hunki loved it when each morning she would ask, "What would you like for dinner dear? Would you prefer that I made a pie or cake for dessert?" He got soooooooooooo spoiled.

I wish she were alive to enjoy free tickets today.

I dont think age has that much to do with it, ( For the record, I am 30).

More a case of people actually having to work to afford vacations in places like the caribbean and europe. It is a luxury, even for people who are employed full time and work hard.

Suggesting that college students are somehow deprived or in need of charity because they cant afford vacations in exotic places is just comical..... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Okay, I'm not at all surprised that schreibsman is getting teased a bit for his suggestion. On the surface, the critics are correct - being a "hard working" college student doesn't de facto entitle you to a fun spring break.

However, his suggestion might still have merit as:

1) A random act of kindness (assuming that you are into that sort of thing - and if you are desperately looking for ways to spend your miles, why not?)

2) A legitimate way to "reward" a deserving college student assuming you are already acquainted with said student and can vouch for the students "neediness."

As for myself, and my miles, I know that my brothers and girlfriend have plenty of ideas where my miles could be spent....


[edited for clarification]


[This message has been edited by bokich (edited 04-23-2003).]