MSN article about boycotting ff programs
 

http://www.bcentral.com/articles/elliott/122.asp

7 Reasons to toss your ff cards.
1. Waste of time
2. Hard to get an award
3. Worthless (a mile is merely a penny)
4. Tax Liability
5. Makes you waste money.
6. Makes you make stupid decisions
7. Non existant perks

I don't agree with the article but some points have some merit, especially #2.

#7 is becoming more true, but the million mile a year flyer will get some perks. I've lost interest in DL because the program has gotten worse and don't try to add miles unless I have to. Other programs are almost as guilty

I hope that lots of people are idiots like this guy and do cut their cards up. Go for it, dude. That is one less person who I have to compete for a seat with.

Woo hoo! I encourage everyone to act like him. Then I will have more chances of getting a seat when I want it.

Not that I've ever had problems redeeming my miles, though.

I guess you ain't a NonePass member, mdtony. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

It is quite amazing to learn the lengths some will go to earn their coveted "FF status". lol http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

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Article removed per rules.

[This message has been edited by DelrayChris (edited 01-20-2003).]

Wow. I've read some dumb articles about frequent-flyer programs, but I think this one takes the cake.

Several of the author's points make no sense. Point #4 is just plain false, and point #7 is a gripe about elite status - not the value of miles. Points #5 and #6 assume that I Am A Moron.

Points #1, #2, and #3 are some of our greatest debates, but the author just takes the "FF programs suck" mindset and doesn't present any real facts to back that position up.

Finally, the author's solution for all of this is that I fly Southwest. For those of us for whom that isn't possible, he offers no alternative other than to stop accepting miles for the flights we take.

It's nonsensical babble to me...

DelrayChris, FlyerTalk's rules ask that you not post articles in their entirety. You might just include a passage that you wish to dispute specifically. And you might consider editing your post as a courtesy to Flyertalk. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Obviously, an article taking the position that miles and points are worthless is going to be controversial here on Flyertalk -- but let's keep the dicussion positive and let's not make personal attacks or question folks' intelligence.

Thanks! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

--
Gary
aka gleff
MilesBuzz! moderator

The article was just plain dumb. He gave no context for his points just some examples to justify his rationale, without any profiling information.
FF programs are not plain vanilla across the board. Peoples traveling patterns or needs are not the same.
When I was a poor college student,trying to get home I was very flexible. I took the cheapest flight regardless of schedule, routing, service etc. The most I flew was 5000mi per year
Now as a businessman who values his time I am very particular about my flights and the benefits associated with the costs. Now I fly 100k+ a year.

This guy probably never earned enough miles to get awarded, alone in past years, I have redeemed the following free r/t, 2JFK-FRA-TLV***** 3 free r/t JFK-EZE 2 free r/t EWR-YYZ, got plenty upgrades, requested and unrequested, got plenty magazines, and 10 free hotel nights on sheratons and Hiltons.

oops.

I usually do not make it a point to comment on articles, but I must mention that your recent article on Frequent Flyer programs was very poorly written.

You mentioned everything in very high level, and led the average consumer to believe that all programs are a waste. While I do believe you are correct on some of your points (mainly #6), others do not carry much merit.

You mention someone spending a day to get Gold Medallion. While that may sound extreme to you, do you realize that gives you 2x as many upgrades, saves money on Crown Room Memberships, Gives 100% mileage bonuses, allows you to board early and use Elite Security lines, etc. That 1 additional day spend will save countless hours and money over a year of traveling.

I just booked my Honeymoon and my fiancé and I are traveling RT First Class to Spain and Rome. The tickets would have cost $9800 each, but we each used 100k United Star Alliance miles. We also redeemed Hotel Points to stay at 2 different 5* hotels.

I understand this may not apply to everyone, but making broad generalizations from a journalist in your position is irresponsible

Yes, miles are addictive but after reading the article I ask myself; are we in denial ourselves or is the author a frustrated Delta or Continental elite member? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif


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"Fly me to the moon and let me earn alot of miles."

Strange fellow. Seems to string together a few anecdotes and quotes just to get a piece. He had this to stay about the TSA.

(edited for UBB coding)

[This message has been edited by nwff (edited 01-20-2003).]

He also wrote an article called the 5 rules for collecting frequent-flier miles. It contradits some of his own points.

http://www.bcentral.com/articles/elliott/107.asp

You can pick apart details in the article, but overall it's my experience that frequent flyer benefits are 'way less than they were 3 or 5 years ago:

• I can still upgrade as much as I used to, but the value of the upgrade isn't nearly as great. First class used to mean enough space to work or relax, along with a decent meal and good service. Now 1st class has less room, there seem to be fewer FAs per person (so reduced service), and meals have gone down in quality and, in many cases, have disappeared altogether.
• Unlike cordelli, I have had issues in claiming awards. Whereas UA used to be reasonable in making international premium-cabin award seats available in advance, such seats are absolutely non-existent on some routes, no matter how far in advance I want to make reservations.

There's no great mystery to me why the FF value has gone down: airlines prices are generally an enormous bargain. And low-cost airlines have demonstrated time and again that more customers will buy a $240 ticket on Bob's Cut-Rate Airline than will buy a $270 ticket on Full Service Airlines.

And that should be very troubling indeed for frequent fliers. Because if the major airlines hope to compete with the Southwests and others who have shown how to turn a profit by providing bare-bones service and no significant FF benefits, it's hard to see how that will happen with FF benefits remaining even at their current level.

EX-cellent post, wideman. You've identified an in--between place that I think a lot of us are in. That is, there's still some value(usually) to working a FF program, but it gets harder every year to justify the effort. I, too, find the decline in benefits on most airlines "very troubling" to quote you once more.

And, I also think you hit the timeframe right on. That's about when I first started noticing the decline in the program I was platinum in at the time.

#2 and a CO. What a fit! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Ah hell, Microsoft is just bitter that nobody will sign up for or give a rat's *ss about their .net passports.
:rolleyes

Odd, I was just thinking this myself as I was sitting back in my (elite-level) self-selected exit row with my (elite-level) blocked seat next to me.

I don't know about the 1 cent per mile part. I just booked 4 Business seats to Bejing for June at 90k miles each. You can do the math.

Here we go... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Not worth it??? Well I just returned from BOS/DTW/CDG for $249.60 on NW, earning 20,236 miles sitting in exit rows on the international segments and F on the domestic segments, using the zero wait elite check-in line (there had to be 150 people in the regular check-in line).

I took Mrs OB one to Paris for 5 days as a Christmas present and now I can replace nearly half of those 47,000 miles I used to book award tix from BOS LGW CDG BOS for this coming summer. Seems pretty hard to beat to me. Otoh, I had to shell out nearly $70 in taxes for that free flight. I think I can live with that.

So the family of 4 goes to Europe in the summer for $270 and 188,000 miles. Not too bad and yes I can live in coach for that although I would prefer business/first class.

Look, the bottom line is that you get something for nothing. You are already travelling, so go ahead and get yourself a little bonus.

This is espcially true if you are spending someone else's money to do it!

Lets see....
My million mile run alone.
1) ~4000.00 in airfare.
2) the Memorial Day weekend in 2000.

What have I gotten from that one trip?

1.) Coach Rt IAH-PHL. (Est. $250.00)
2.) 2 Coach Rts IAH-AMS AMS-MNL and back. To see where my Gramps was in WWII. (est. $1900.00 each.) (Talked my way into Business Class on MNL-AMS, He was 82 yrs old and had never been in business class. Needless to say he LOVED it.) Real value is being able to take that trip.
3.) 2 Business class RTs IAH-CDG (est. $1700.00 each) Sent parents to Paris in style.
4.) Week's hotel in NYC for Mom, Aunts and Grandma. (Transfer to Hilton) (Est. $2400.00)

Still got ~500K left.

Yes. It took time and a little persistance.
Clearly I am ahead.

Also, my rule is: Price being equal, I go for the miles. Otherwise buy the cheaper product.

BSL

That article has some points that are well taken, but to abandon FF programs and convert to southwest to me is stupid.

If southwest meets your needs: fly 8 (or 4 online) simple US roundtrips and get another cheapie free - go ahead, but that does nothing for someone like me who prefers to go on international trips or someone who wants something other than coach (aka cattle) class.

I flew 3 trips to Europe (LAX-AMS,CDG,FCO)from 10/01 to 12/01 on US. I paid $1500 total for my 3 trips on US and used my systemwides to upgrade 5 out of 6 transatlantic legs. I used my miles (bonuses & all!) for 2 business class tickets to Australia & NZ. If I took the advice of the article, I would have paid almost 2K for just my ticket in coach. If I took the advice of the article, I would have been in cramped coach class & not taken 3 nice trips to Europe & support the airlines during a tough time right after 9/11.

That's my rule, too. However, what I've found for the trips I've booked lately is that price is hardly ever equal. In fact, for every trip I've booked for the last several months, one airline was MUCH cheaper than the others -- by more than $100 in every case. And the airline that was cheapest was different in every case!

That savings is the equivalent of getting a free ticket after only three or four roundtrips. Hardly any FF program could do better.

There is a kind of explanation: I monitor airfares to the places I want to go continuously, and I only buy tickets when the price drops below my thresholds. And then I buy them fast, before the price goes back up.

Although common wisdom says that when one airline drops fares drastically, others follow, I haven't found that to be practically true. Even when other airlines say they've dropped their fares, they often don't provide as many discount seats as the orginal airline. And sometimes they don't drop them at all.

For example, late last year Northwest Airlines had a few very short-term sales where roundrip SFO-CDG was $240 + taxes. They did this two or three times last fall, each time for just a few days. In each case no other airline came within $150 of this fare.

Despite all that I've accumlated enough FF miles to take several free trips. So it's not like I entirely agree with the news article either. But FF miles are definitely less important to me than price when it comes to choosing my flights.

Of course, I fly a lot less in total than many of you guys do. Even if I used the same airline for all my flights I would not have enough miles for elite status, which I understand is where the real FF benefits might come in.

Ed

Here's the byline at the end of the article:
"Christopher Elliott is the editor of Elliott's E-mail, a free weekly newsletter for travelers."

Seems like a matter of getting your money's worth and no more.

Pardon the attack on this Elliot guy's intelligence, but he is an idiot. If you don't want to get caught up in the hubbub over frequent flyer miles, then just disengage yourself from the mileage madness. Don't read the e-mails don't open the promotional mailings, and look at your statements once or twice a year. But don't cancel your memberships. What the heck good do you get out of that? Just take what they give ya, for crying out loud. Of course, if this guy wants to shoot himself in the foot, you won't see me tryin to stop him!

yorock

I would thing this guy probably get paid by Southwest, he is promoting them very strongly.

It is obvious that the value of FF miles has decreased, and will likely continue to do so. But even so we are a far way from #3 assertion that " a mile is only a penny." In a prior post here someone cited a first class UAL trip to Spain and Rome, for 100,000 miles. At a penny a mile, that would be worth $1,000. Try nearly ten cents a mile. Or, using NW miles one can travel on Malaysian Air (one of the finest) first class to Asia... for 120,000 miles. Could one purchase a first class rt to Asia for $1,200... with miles worth a penny each ? On what airline ?

My point is that while we all would like to see former values return, there are plenty of values still there... and they are worth spending some time to achieve. Even if more of the time is spent on the phone trying to nail the award down!

You greatly under-valued that trip at $1900. To borrow a phrase from MasterCard, I'd say it was priceless.

Well, it doesn't surprise me. If you listen to the media, Southwest is the answer to all the airline industry's problems. I mean, it's not the bad economy, the terrorist attacks, and so on. Nope, they just need to be Southwest.

Of course, this is the same media that was talking about UAL's contract with its pilots a couple of years ago as a great way to preserve labor peace for many years to come.

If you want to lose your shirt, do what the media tells you.

[This message has been edited by mdtony (edited 01-26-2003).]

After reading the article, all I can say is that it doesn't match my personal experience. This fellow is welcome to do what he wants to and rationalize his reasons any way he chooses to, but I really don't understand the need to try to evangelize others to his way of thinking. I guess he had a column to fill.

[This message has been edited by Standby4321 (edited 01-27-2003).]

The value of loyalty to a FF program? I was just able to get an award ticket for the wife of a dear friend who's undergoing cancer treatment in Seattle - between my miles and those of other friends we've gotten her tickets for every weekend of his anticipated 12 week stay. Cost me 25,000 miles which I'll never miss, you can bet.

My boyfriend sent me this article probably asking me to think twice about getting mileage earning credit cards and taking multi-segment trips.

But...I'll probably be redeeming a free ticket for him (though on a different airline) so he can accompany me on my very first mileage run ($126 LGA-LAX).
Non-flyertalkers may complain but wouldn't mind having us as good friends when vacation time comes!

WOW! How can I do that?



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"Waiter? May I have another latté, please?"