Randy is promoting this offer on FT (I presume not for purely altruistic reasons)and some of us are taking advantage. Why shouldn't people do the same on ebay?

As always, I wonder about the multiplier effect of something like this (see also mile inflation threads). BA isn't going to be in the business of Concording people who buy subscriptions, that isn't viable for them. If EBay reaches an audience that reacts to this that is an order of magnitude greater than FT it could spell real trouble.

FT is great if everyone doesn't know about it. That's the conundrum of information on how to 'beat the system' or take advantage of loopholes. Everyone can't be doing it, it only works if something on the order of quite a bit less than everyone does it. After all most seats are coach and for the airline to survive, most seats must be paid for.

I agree. BA may simply up its award level for Concorde trips - and that they will if they feel this is over-exploited. I am sure that there is a limit to the number of free seats on each flight so that if too many people tried to do it the capacity controls would stop BA from losing. Other than that, BA probably does not care if the miles are earned from subscriptions because the miles are paid for anyway. If the award is worth a lot more than the miles it takes to get the award, then the airline may simply up the award redemption amount.

and a huge rise in redemption rates is good?

Not at all for us, but possibly for the airlines. If people are exploiting a loophole, it most certainly will be closed before too long. Probably the most likely way to combat this is to raise the redemption rates for those awards that the airline perceives are too good of a deal for the miles.

As posted on this thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/006919.html

hmmmmm ...

OK - since it seems that people are guessing I am the seller of those ebay auctions I will clear up the matter: NO, I am not the seller of the auctions referenced above. However, I will readily admit that I have marketed a couple promotions that I was first alerted to here on FT. For example, I marketed the ability to fly AA for a lot less using Qualiflyer miles and the Inside Flyer deal.
However, I also feel I contributed considerbly to FlyerTalk on this promotion. When the Qualiflyer promotion was first mentioned on FlyerTalk it had only appeared on one UK person's Starwood statement and no one could confirm it. It was also not clear if it was a targeted promotion. I called Starwood and Qualiflyer about it, then sent several emails and after a lot of work was eventually able to get the promotion clearly defined by Qualiflyer email CS. I then posted these emails on FT (see later part of www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum74/HTML/003827.html ). Neither Starwood nor Qualiflyer phone customer service knew anything about the promotion - both thought it was the other person's promotion so people on FT were confused. By finding out more about the promotion and posting it on FT I feel I contributed to the community and didn't feel bad about marketing it on ebay.
Also, as a college student trying to work my way through college I think I probably need the $20 worse than the people who paid me for the information. And the people will save many, many times the amount they paid for the information, depending on how many miles they gained this way.
For those concerned about the airlines raising award levels - I think this is much more likely to happen because of people giving valuable information like this away for free on ebay rather than because people like me market the information - simply because of the difference in the volume of people who will find out. By limiting the information to those who are willing to pay for it I am reducing the liklihood of the airline closing the promotion AND making my college education possible.
The spirit of FT is certainly to share information for free and help other people out. And I definitely will share my knowledge freely (I have flown a lot even though I am young as my family lives in Africa) and help others to the best of my ability without asking for anything in return on FlyerTalk. The spirit of ebay is buying and selling. I will continue to buy and sell on ebay as I need the income.
Is there anything wrong with what I am doing?

Edited for content and spelling.

[This message has been edited by wanaflyforless (edited 05-30-2002).]

[This message has been edited by wanaflyforless (edited 05-30-2002).]

I have commented on this type of activity many times in the past. I don't like it. I don't think that it is in the spirit of the community of FlyerTalk. And you can be sure that it will hurt all FTers in the long run (for a perfect example, see the GoldPoints fiasco).

Is is "wrong"? Depends where you draw the line. However, I do find it interesting that you sent me a private e-mail asking for confirmion of information that I had previously posted on the above-referenced thread, under the guise that you had "talked to a customer service rep. yesterday who knew nothing about it so just would like some evidence to back me up before initiating a large transfer." I'll let the rest of the community decide for themselves whether that was wrong.

Sure it is. Providing transport on the Concorde for someone that buys InsideFlyer subscriptions is no different than doing so for someone that has the BA Visa, charges a lot, but has never flown on a BA revenune ticket. BA gets money from the bank or Starwood either way. For someone redeeming through Qantas, presumably BA is getting some money from Qantas (or at least an offset for transactions in the opposite direction), Qantas got money from Starwood, Starwood got money from InsideFlyer, and InsideFlyer got money from the passenger. In fact, BA is probably the only party really making money off this transaction, aside from InsideFlyer should people renew. The more the merrier, I'd say would be BA's attitude.

The only case where BA would be concerned is if there were passengers that otherwise would have actually purchased a $12,000 Concorde ticket and are instead "buying" one through this round-about offer.

How many FlyerTalkers are actually going to take advantage of this offer and use it for the Starwood-QF-BA Concorde deal? Maybe a dozen or two? I don't think this is going to be of much concern. The big danger would be if a ticket broker got wind of this, bought a huge amount of miles, then sold "discount" Concorde tickets to the general public.

I suspect that far more people bought subscriptions for Starwood points to use for hotel stays, or to top off airline accounts that they otherwise use on a regular basis. That's what I did. I think I'm otherwise a good customer of Starwood, in that I stay with them when possible and use my Starwood Amex a lot, and I'm a good customer of the airlines that I plan to transfer points to, so I think that they'd all be happy that I'm participating in their programs more.

The only reason I was interested in this at first was for a large personal transfer wich I did do and am very grateful to the community for alerting me to the posibility. And yes, I talked to three Starwood and two Qualiflyer phone customer service reps who did not know about the promotion, the day before I emailed you. My email to you was completely genuine. It was only later that the idea of marketing the information I had recieved from Qualiflyer crossed my mind.

The other thing I wanted to point out is how I think that the InsideFlyer/Starwood offer is much different from the ValueMags/GoldPoints offer (or should I say fiasco?). From the earnings ratios on that offer, it's quite clear to me that someone was losing their shirt on the deal. Either someone didn't do their math correctly, or someone was doing it as a loss leader. Either way, once the deal was exposed in FlyerTalk, someone no doubt got much more than they bargained for, and didn't want to eat the loss. Is it any wonder there were so many problems with people trying to get their points transferred, and that the offer was retracted early without prior notice?

The InsideFlyer/Starwood offer (and the sister offers directly with the airlines) was offered by top-notch outfits with well established programs, and didn't involve a loss leader on anyone's part. It's for this reason that I felt comfortable with it, and expected there not to be redemption problems down the line as happend with ValueMags/GoldPoints.

I've only read the beginning of this thread, but fail to see why people have such a problem with the information being sold. I for one spend perhaps numerous hours some day going through FT and doing other online travel research. If somebody doesn't have hours a day to research these things, they might be quite happy to buy the information. There are things I don't know about, or don't care to do, and I buy the service, information, etc. With many things I buy, hypothetically, I could do research or somehow learn to do it myself or just do it myself, but I buy the product or service out of convenience. If a prospective buyer for the Concorde information did not want to bid on the auction, perhaps they would be able to search the internet anf find the data. Or maybe they find it easier to pay $25 just to get a step by step in their email. I have written a step by step on this, giving credit to one of the original threads and its posters, and have sent it to many of my friends for free. It conveniently has all the web links so literally in one document you have evreything you need for the deal. Currently the document is at version 2.1 taking in to account changes and research. If I sold this document, which took me some time to put together, there is nothing wrong with that. Is it wrong also to sell books on investing, taxes, the law, etc. You are paying a premium for the persons expertese which you likely don't have if you need to buy the product. Most people do not have the inclination to research all the nuances of this offer, and they might appreciate buying a concise document listing all the details. I have bought inforamtional reports in the past on things where I am not an expert, or where I want to sharpen my knowledge on a topic. There is nothing wrong with giving it away for free too, as many have done, and which I have thus far done with my document. People just get all fired up when another soul makes a dollar for whatever reason.

Jetsetter.... you are soooo right. I agree 200% with you.

People.... People, People... let us please not forget its only a FBB for pete's sake, and, if someone posts information up for sale and others choose to pay for it, and you http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif didn't have the idea or the will to execute on the arbitrage opportunity, then just deal with it and move on!!!! ... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

------------------
Gaucho100K

[This message has been edited by Gaucho100K (edited 05-30-2002).]

You're missing the point, which is that FlyerTalk, at least to some of us, is a community built on sharing information. Take a little, give a little. Those folks that are buying information, as well as the people that are selling information gleaned from these boards, are giving nothing and taking a lot. In the end, some company will be abused, and another loophole/opprtunity/program will be shut down.

jetsetter, I didn't know where I stood on this issue because I didn't quite know what the deal was. Was the seller lazy and just provided a link to FT? But, now that you have explained what you have found to be involved, I agree with your outlook.

I have done administrative stuff, where I charged a heck of alot more than $20 to do research and provide step-by-step procedures, templates or whatever for someone or some company, and still, my fee was looked at as a pittance compared to what their time would have been worth to do it all themselves.

Further, beyond just throwing together a list of what to do, one has to assimilate, translate and present the information, bringing it down to the reader's level, a level that assures that even an idiot will just soak it up. All this is work and should be paid for, yes.

If this is the type of info that is being sold, I see this "selling of information" as a win-win deal.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


[edited because I suck at bolding codes]


[This message has been edited by lisamcgu (edited 05-30-2002).]