END FREQUENCY-REWARD PROGRAMS?
 

END FREQUENCY-REWARD PROGRAMS

Don't mindlessly defend frequency-reward programs because you perceive them to be your only perk for a hard, tough life on the road. The truth is that frequent-flyer reward programs depress competition and that is bad for us. Eliminating frequency-reward programs would unleash a torrent of new initiatives aimed at winning the business of business travelers. The price of first- and business-class tickets would plummet, in-flight services would improve and the airlines would start concentrating on tangible benefits like seat comfort, on-time performance and baggage handling. You'd be shocked at how creative the airlines would become if they didn't try to solve all of their problems by throwing miles at us. (By the way, ending the reward programs would force up the airlines to concentrate on recognition plans that offer upgrades and other perks that frequent flyers really want.)

-Joe B.

http://www.zyworld.com/brancatelli/branc.htm

http://www.brancatelli.com

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NEVER!!! C'mon Joe! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif


[This message has been edited by doc (edited 05-17-2002).]

I doubt it! And I am referring to the part about the airlines becoming "competitive" and "creative" if FF programs were eliminated. Airline senior management, in most of the majors, are dinosaurs. Been that way since the beginning of time. No signs that it is changing. The only breath of fresh air in the industry is with the upstarts.

If FF programs went bye-bye, my view is we would see the same old lackluster service offered now. The only real difference would be that people would buy tickets based strictly on price. The majors lose out big time to SW and JetBlue if that happens.

I agree with the topic title. Airlines have FF programs to discourage people from flying other airlines. If there were no FF programs, airlines would have to be more competitive (cynicism notwithstanding).

I see nothing wrong with people looking only at price, schedule and service instead of FF miles.

I think a good number of people would be willing to pay more for an AA MRTC transcon non-stop than an SWA cattle car making 1 or more stops/plane changes.

For many, price would not be the only factor.

I don't know. I think comapnies can get away with mandating that an employee purchases an ecomomy ticket because they know that if we really want it, we can upgrade. I for one would never agree to fly 200,000 domestic miles a year in coach. So they would be forced to either find someone who would, or pay for First Class tickets for the most frequent FF's. Granted in the current economy, people might be willing to stick it out in coach, but I bet they would bail as soon as things heat up. Then what? Airlines would find a way to offer the cheapest First Class so employers would pick that airline and we are right back where we started with lousy service and poor amenities. Just playing devils advocate.

Me neither. If FF miles aren't important to you feel free to make your air travel selection based on other criteria.

What I don't get is why the programmes should be ended. Can't people decide for themselves what's important to them?

don't underestimate the laziness of the airlines. With a few exceptions, the majors would rather carve the country up into separate fiefdoms--DL in ATL, etc.

As long as I'm stuck in one market, I might as well get the points. Still, I'll fly Airtran and Southwest when it makes sense.

I flew frequently before ff points. It was not uncommon to be upgraded for free then. I was given free breakfast at the Seattle Hilton, before any such program existed.

PSA was great with free stuff, as was AS.

Better? Really depends on too many variables with the competition and what makes "you" happy. I like the points for the "free" trips. These only work IF you fly materially and in concentration. Casual flyers must toil long to get any freebies and were dumped by inactivity in the past. They then were paying for a flight, including ff points that they would not use, so others could have a more valuable set of perks.

Lots of things dictate airlines flown for each category of flyer. Often it is purely the "choice" of the only airline available from point a to point b for them. Price is very important to the payer, but not as meaningful (meaningless?) the employee, nonpayer. Service was way better in the 70's and early 80's. Seats were wider (or was I just thinner, probably both). First class domestic was FIRST class.

I am sure this category will grow plenty for I will sign off here.

I'm not suggesting a government ban on FF programs -- that would be ridiculous.

What I am suggesting is that everyone completely ignore FF programs when choosing an airline. If FF programs do not result in people flying the same airline over and over, the costs of the FF program will exceed its benefits to the airline, and the airline will rescind it. Then we will have greater competition on price and service.

I'm already doing my part. I never choose an airline based on the FF program. I strictly choose based on a combination of price, service and schedule.

While I don't dispute the basic premise concerning competitive forces and potential quality of service improvements in SOME markets, I also willingly admit to loving the game as it is being played right now. The mileage runs, spiffs, upgrades, routing games and all the rest are part of a fun hobby/lifestyle that includes a ready means of keeping score. It will probably have to come to an end at some point -- but in the meantime, it suits me just fine. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

If this is such a good idea, why is it that every business in every industry treats its best customers better in one way or another? Is "Joe B" the only one who really knows what's going on?

I can say that if FF programs were to end-

(1) I'd travel less often. Right now I fly in first whenever I want to; take away FF programs and I'd always be in coach. I'd travel less.

(2) I'd expect to pay less for my tickets. If I'm not getting FF benefits, I'm not paying as much for my ticket.

(3) I'd shop only based on price. "Joe B" thinks that getting rid of FF programs would bring us back to the good old days during government regulation where airlines were offering piano bars and freshly carved prime rib dinners. When frequent flyers aren't "restricted" to flying only airlines they have status on, they're going to look at price primarily. We are loyal to programs we have status or lots of miles in. Regular discount travelers who don't have status or many miles tend to be less concerned with which airline they fly, they just want a good price. So, contrary to the "service war" type scenario "Joe B" suggests would come about, I think it would be a more competitive fare war.

d

Doppy said:

"Right now I fly in first whenever I want to; take away FF programs and I'd always be in coach."

Not necessarily so, Doppy. Before all this mileage and FF programs, each airline had its own way of dealing with its best customers. In the seventies, I was an up-and-down the East Coast steady customer of Eastern Airlines and was given the status of "Executive Traveler." There weren't all that many ET's and I never failed to be upgraded to FC for service that was more like FC service than it is now.
Waitlists? Forget it. All I had to do was show my Brown ET card and I was immediately moved to the front of every line. And every EA employee knew how to treat an ET.

To quote JoeB:

"By the way, ending the reward programs would force up the airlines to concentrate on recognition plans that offer upgrades and other perks that frequent flyers really want."

Joe is right. If we got rid of all this FF program mileage and reward nonsense and let the airline companies concentrate on perks and privileges for their best customers, it would be easier to get the upgrade, the seat on the soldout flight, the complimentary club membership, and the recognition of who you are every step of the way when you walk into the airport.
How many of us who slog around for business really need a free flight as a reward? Better just make sure we get the FC seat on the way home in the evening after a tough day on the job out of town.

jb is an idiot. his writing is from the standpoint of entitlement. ff programs are a competitive edge for the airlines, hotels, car rental companies, etc. they are more than a reward for your loyalty, they are an information gathering tool for them. i have switched carriers several times and now spread my 'loyalty' among several carriers in all categories as do a lot of other people.

The industry obviously has decided that the programs are best for the bottom line. Otherwise, the programs would not exist.

Why would airlines drop the cost of F/C travel dramatically? That's their fattest profit area. People who buy those tickets aren't usually price-sensitive. Airlines would much rather sell those expensive seats, and then upgrade their most frequent travelers (in most cases, high-profit business types as well) to the remaining seats.

As for inflight service, I think most people (and the airlines) have written this off as a relic of the past. I know as a passenger, I don't want a crappy meal if I have to pay even an extra ten bucks for it. I know as a stockholder that I don't want to serve that meal unless I can recoup the costs. Thank Southwest for this: everybody competes with Southwest at some time or another, therefore no recouping costs of meals, therefore the meals are gone. (The exception is Midwest Express - they do a good job of hitting niche markets that LUV doesn't hit, they command higher fares across the board, and they provide a near-first-class experience.)

Joe B's point about not "mindlessly defending ff programs" is well taken. Although I personally hope the programs continue, I think they also have their downside. Airlines may well tend to offer their best customers less, rather than better,service because they feel frequent flyers will not walk easily walk away from their elite status. Indeed, alternative ways of rewarding loyalty may one day come along. This will assuredly be the case if both airlines and frequent flyers reach a point where neither feel this program is meeting their needs of rewarding/recognizing. The programs are moving toward such a point as more and more "miles" are totally unrelated to air travel, and as the "rewards" for mileage are continuously devalued. In this Joe B is right: keep an open mind.