In a somewhat related vein, I was recently required to fly American COS-DFW and return for business. Personally, I had vowed never to fly AA again after their COS staff was directly responsibile for my ex and me missing a cruise out of San Juan several years ago.

Anyway, even a UA 1K doesn't have "squat" for pull on AA. So, I got into the regular line at DFW, which had about 25 people ahead of me when I arrived, including a blind lady and several well into their sunset years. During the 40 minutes it took to check in, I saw one male agent check in three "walkups" ahead of everyone else standing in line. Geeze, maybe one, but not three in succession! Was alot of grublimg from the troops when this was viewed.

Satellite Parking:

Sorry about your lousy check-in experience. I agree - reinforcing the wrong behavior makes me mad.

Having had status on AA for many years, it's been a long time since I waited in any substantial check-in lines. And really long counter lines are NOT a function of September 11, as are the Security Checkpoint lines.

Really long no-status check-in lines (at least on AA) have been a staple of early morning travel for many years.

I'm sure that you realize the realities of flying during the last six months - you're not Mr. Never Travel who needs to get to the airport hours and hours ahead of flight time.

But what got into you to allow about 100 People to get in line ahead of you?? The No-Status Never-Travel line?? What were you thinking?? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

The reason I bring this up is that AA makes it very clear that they want all passengers at the gate 30 minutes before scheduled departure.

Having arrived at the airport about 5:35, that left you all of 67 minutes to check your bag and clear thru the random wanding and groping gauntlet. Since last September, I've spent upwards of 45 minutes in security checkpoint lines in similar airports (after having spent no time out front, of course).

You were doomed from the moment you entered the terminal and saw about 100 people ahead of you. I'm amazed you made it to the gate in time to wave bye-bye to the plane as it taxied away, let alone in time to actually get on board.

I agree with Satellite Parking completely. If they made people who didn't arrive with enough time to spare miss their flight, the problem would be quickly solved, because most people would show up on time next time. They might need a few extra Airport Police for awhile to maintain order though http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Although Satellite Parking said that his original boarding pass had no seat assignment, to respond to Eugene's question: On most airlines, if you're not physically present at the boarding gate 20 minutes prior to scheduled departure time, your seat assignments can be released. This is true even if you've checked in before that time elsewhere at the airport. The fact that you made it there prior to "final boarding" is irrelevant if this occurs less than 20 minutes prior to departure.

Also, some airlines are changing the 10-minute rule at which point your reservation goes away to 15 minutes, in order to give them extra time to do the Positive Passenger Bag Match for people that don't board.

Apparently I will be the only one who thinks those agents in ELP were acting properly. I see no reason to make people miss their flights if it's not necessary. If someone is about to miss his flight but the agent is checking in someone who's there 2 hours early, that just makes no sense. They do this in the security lines too. Do you object to it there as well? I've just always found it to be a really smart idea.

Let's look at this from another perspective.

Recently in another country I had to make a connection between 2 seperate flights on the same airline that required me to exit the airside area and re-check-in land side.

The flight was late and the line was relatively short with one person only working the check-in. The idiot in front of me must have taken 10 minutes to check in. Better yet, his flight was in 3 HOURS, while mine was now in 15 minutes. In addition to changing his seat three times and insisting several times that his FF number be included in his booking (it was, but did not show up on the BP on this airline, it never does), he then demanded a written club pass (when his biz bp was just enough). When I finally asked if he could perhaps stop his rantings and idiocy for about 30 seconds so I could check-in for my flight which was now leaving in 15 minutes he basically took the attitude that is being taken here, that I was abusing the system by showing up late and was irresponsible (remember, his flight was in 3 hours, and mine in 15 minutes, I should mention that the agent neither said or did anything during this exchange).

I asked the agent if he was checked in (answer:yes) moved his carry-on with my foot to the side and ignored him. He tried grabbing me and telling me to get back in line. In short, it was an ugly scene.

The point of this anecdote is that the people who are shoved to the front of the line are nopt always necessarily late to the airport and in some cases it is due to the airlines themselves.

In short, this is why I make sure that I have elite qualifications on ALL ALLIANCES, so that I will never have to be in the general line. Yes one day I may get stuck in a general line, but I figure that with 1 world, * alliance, Skyteam and Wings covered (about 32 airlines covered) it will not happen soon.

On the other hand, I will NEVER EVER show up hours and hours before a flight. I do not have the time in my life to wait for hours and hours in line, especially as most of my travel is international and I see how many other countries have set-ups much superior to those in the US and do not require hours of waiting to implement them. I do however realize that it is a risk, although your story is a bit different as you were in general rather than elite lines.

Satellite Parking,

Sorry to hear about your experience with AA. I agree that even if AA had to pull some agents to help get the next flight off, they should have left at least one agent to process the existing line.

Go to AA.com, click on "Contact Us" on thetop right-hand side, then select "Customer Relations", to send your complaint. I'll caution you that this is just a place to start. There is no telling when or what kind of response you will get. But don't give up, you have a valid complaint. Also, the art of complaining can play a factor in how good a response you might get.

I believe this is the entire point. There are too many people who would NEVER EVER show up with the required amount of time to get through security, imposing their desire not to wait upon the rest of us. Whether elite or not, you are "stealing" when you deliberately take something that shouldn't be yours from someone else. Be it money or time (Aren't they the same?), it's theft nonetheless. We're all busy, too.

Now, of course, a connecting flight is a different story, but I would think that is a very small fraction of the infractions.

When grabbing a quote from my post, you should have also included my views on the inefficiency of US security vs. security in othjer countries, Also please note the fact that I stated that I have DE FACTO elite status on just about every US carrier (BL, UA, AA, CO, NW, HP) therefore the whole thing does not really apply to me, I also state that I do regard it as a bit risky, but is a risk I am willing to take (I would NEVER be willing to sacrifice an additional 4-5 DAYS of my life per year to this situation). My big consolation to the recent changes is that on US domestic I try to be there an hour before - no more, and to be quite frank have ALWAYS found myself checked in and through Security with at least 40 minutes to spare (Elite check-ins and elite security lines effectively making my wait identical to what it was BEFORE 9/11).

I understand your frustration with US security. Just multiply by a factor of 10 as you stand as "first" in line for 20-30 minutes while people who got to airport an hour later than you did get checked in.

I'm just paying for the security. I didn't invent it. But the time taken still comes out of my pocket.

I smell a conspiracy theory here - does anyone think it is possible that the AA agents KNEW the DFW flight was overbooked and deliberately chose to check-in everyone for the Chicago flight FIRST in order to insure that enough people missed to DFW flight without AA having to compensate anyone for the overbooking?


[This message has been edited by rtpflyer (edited 03-22-2002).]

I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, but if you'd been there with me, I think you'd agree with my conclusion that they couldn't possibly have been that smart. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Then again, I've been surprised in the past how devious counter and gate agents can be when put up to it (of course, I'm thinking here of the United Express / ACA team) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif So who knows ...

SP

Let's say I'm at the front of the check-in line, and I arrived 2 hours before my scheduled departure. The gate agent has me wait so she can check in a late-arriving pax. Annoying to me, but not a disaster. But what about the folks in line behind me who arrived an hour before their departure times and are anxious about making their flights? Should they have to stand there patiently as latecomers who just walked in the door pass in front of them? My point is that the gate agents and security officials have no way of knowing how much time each & every person in line has before their flight. When this is the case, I think the only fair method is to take people on a first come, first served basis. The airlines have a disincentive to do this, of course, since it's not usually in their interest to have pax missing flights.

I've been wondering whether a "timed entry" system might be workable. When I was in Florence last year, we wanted to go to the Uffizi Gallery and had two options: stand in the first come, first served line, or pay a small surcharge for a ticket which guaranteed us entry during a specific window that day. I know Disney theme parks use a similar system (without the surcharge) to shorten the waits for their most popular rides. I'm sure there are all kinds of reasons why something like this wouldn't actually work in the airport, but it's still an intriguing idea to me.

Last winter, I had the pleasure of flying an 8:30 a.m. flight out of Air Canada's main terminal in YYZ. At least 500 people were in the check in line. At departure minus thirty, the agents would call out a flight, and move everyone on that flight up to the front. Thus delaying everyone else, so they had to do this for every flight. It seemed like a real mess, but I suppose it worked for them.

I've given this thread some thought, and there are no easy answers. The bottom line is that, not counting time in line, it takes an average of x minutes to check in, and y minutes to clear security. I'd guess x + y isn't any more than 5 minutes. Add time in case something takes unusually long, and you have the 30-60 minutes that the airlines were suggesting pre 9/11.

Everything else is waiting in line.

But there are a certain number of gate agents, and a certain number of security portals, and it's enough to get everyone thru each day. So why the lines? My theory is that there are lines because the people don't come thru evenly spaced throughout the day. So the problem, at least at the large or hub airports, is the hub departure schedule, where most flights tend to arrive and depart within an hour of each other, to facilitate transfers. Then many fewer flights until the next busy time. Space out the flights, and the lines solve themselves. As a side effect, there's be a lot less time waiting on the tarmac while 23rd for takeoff.

The downside is connecting passengers would be a lot more likely to have 2 and 3 hour connections. But if they can get to the airport an hour later, and save a half hour on the tarmac, then they're getting much of that back. And things would eb a lot better for nonstop passengers.

So? Is this idea completely impracticle?

Not sure about "most airlines", but on AA (and AFAIK, DL, UA, etc.) if you've checked in and have a valid boarding pass with a seat assignment, it is not to be given away provided you board the plane during regular boarding time (on AA, you must be onboard the aircraft and in your assigned seat at least 10 minutes before scheduled departure time). There is no requirement to check in (or even identify yourself to a gate agent) again at the gate.

You were doomed the minute you got into the 100-person line. I've had two flights since 9/11 on airlines on which I had no status - a round-trip with checked bags. Both times, I walked into the airport, noted the line, and walked back out to the curb to use curbside check-in. This worked well for me as I made sure to have a printed itinerary with me and we able to go straight to the gate. It's a good tip to remember (using curbside, keeping printouts with you) - even if you are an elite, sometimes it's faster.

Having said that, I still hate the way that airlines have degraded service provided to non-elites to such an inhuman level. I fly AA enough to keep status, and I like their service a lot, but I always see torturous lines at the non-status counter. It's pretty brutal, but I guess the powers that be have determined that's the best way to do business.